Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

orca1946 — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:51:49 GMT

Aqua shoes were better for my replaced hip.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:02:47 GMT

Kicking hurts. Becoming a better kicker is going to hurt, there is no way around it. Kicking with shoes is like kicking with weights on your feet. Don't focus on your speed or intervals just do it and make it hurt. A set I enjoy is :20 seconds sprint :10 seconds easy repeat as many times as you like. 10 rounds will do the trick though. Take the shoes off and then do some fast kicking it will feel great. coachtrent.blogspot.com

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

orca1946 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:51:16 GMT

I will try aqua shoes to see if my hip likes them any better.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

ande — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 02:46:39 GMT

yes, sometimes we used to kick with shoes when I swam for UT (Sep 81 - May 86) I could kick 50 yards with shoes & a board in about 32 seconds I remember it felt funny to take them off & kick bare foot. not sure if or how much it helped, I am a fan of training hard to kick faster Ande Has anyone heard of this technique or used it in swim practices? It seems to do nothing for me other than takes 2 min to do a 50 !! I would rather use small fins or just use my own 2 feet !

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Former Member — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:51:25 GMT

Did this in college. Good way to blow out your knees.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:44:03 GMT

I think it gives a performance boost when you take them off. Like swimming with fists or like taking off the bat weights on deck in a baseball game. I think there is a fundamental difference between your two examples. Bat weights stress the muscles more, swimming with fists does not. And anyway, I've always thought of swimming with fists as a technique thing, something to help teach EVF. Not a tool to get stronger. But ultimately I think there are two questions you should ask of any training tool or practice: -- does it promote greater strength/fitness in a way that will help me race faster? -- does it promote better technique? I just don't see how "shoe kicking" does either of these. I guess if you hate kicking, and putting shoes on makes you work at it more, it can be a useful training aid. But regular kicking, or kicking with fins, is better IMO.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

The Fortress — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:15:23 GMT

Agree absolutely. And I still don't see the benefit. Kicking with shoes takes away the major source of propulsion in the kick, so exactly how does it work (stress) your core/legs/butt more than regular kicking? Seems gimmicky to me. And it is the exact opposite of using fins, whom many advocate as a means to build leg/core strength. Agree. I'm never doing it.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

knelson — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 06:55:41 GMT

Kicking with shoes takes away the major source of propulsion in the kick I was thinking kicking with shoes is similar to swimming with fists, but on second thought it's not really. It would be more like trying to swim with shoes on your hands and I don't see many people trying that!

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

rtodd — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 06:45:42 GMT

I think it gives a performance boost when you take them off. Like swimming with fists or like taking off the bat weights on deck in a baseball game. You can swing harder, or maybe you just think you can? not sure. I also used to warm up with a football before a softball game and it madet the softball feel like a baseball and you could throw it harder. I think it just adds variety to a workout and you can raise awareness of your legs and feet and how they propell your stroke.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 05:36:32 GMT

Good way to blow out your knees. Agree absolutely. And I still don't see the benefit. Kicking with shoes takes away the major source of propulsion in the kick, so exactly how does it work (stress) your core/legs/butt more than regular kicking? Seems gimmicky to me. And it is the exact opposite of using fins, whom many advocate as a means to build leg/core strength. (Disclaimer: I don't much use fins either. And find that they too can stress knees.) The only worthwhile thing I found in using shoes is a great appreciation for how important the foot is (as well as ankle flexibility) for a fast kick.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

knelson — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:38:24 GMT

I started out in aqua shoes, now I'm in tennis shoes and some days I feel like I'm ready to graduate to the next shoe level! Doc Martens? :)

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

TinaA — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:05:57 GMT

I've been wearing shoes since right after Nationals this year just for the warmup and the first set of practice. I've noticed a HUGE improvement in my kick especially dolphin and flutter on my back . The shoes have forced me to work both halves of the dolphin kick and have really toned my butt and thighs as a bonus. The other day we did a set of 8X50 on :55. I was able to easily hold :50 (shoes off) for the whole set doing dolphin kick. Before the shoes I would have been coming in right at :55 for the first couple of 50's and then tanking and not making the send off. I also feel like the shoes have gotten me to get longer in fly and narrowed up and sped up my flutter kick in backstroke. I started out in aqua shoes, now I'm in tennis shoes and some days I feel like I'm ready to graduate to the next shoe level!

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

fatboy — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:35:33 GMT

Michelle - Thanks for the answer. We had the first shoes workout today and felt I had better body position when swimming after removing the shoes. Good point also on working on weak areas instead of strong points.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

orca1946 — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 06:09:45 GMT

Last night we did kick sets & then went to the deep end to tread water with the shoes on. It was a fun filled set with the coach smiling as we tried not to drown.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Redbird Alum — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 04:17:47 GMT

... and you still should feel the water on the front and back of your feet with the shoes on. ... Can you please explain how one "feels" the water through the tops and soles of sneakers? Are you saying you should kick so hard you feel the pressure being exerted on the tops and soles? I suspect what makes this seem to work is the shoe negates the flexibility of the foot altogether, although the ankle is still free to move. Similar to how fist gloves remove the extension and movement of the fingers while allowing the wrist movement during a pull set.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Betsy — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:28:46 GMT

Wow! My team did this when I was a kid (in the 50s). It was helpful, and your kick felt so good when you took them off! Interesting how things come around.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

orca1946 — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:56:00 GMT

I have a hip replacement & it does not like this set !:badday:

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

chowmi — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:22:00 GMT

Michelle - sounds like a tough kick set. On the 4 x 50 on 2:00 set, how much rest are you getting on each 50? To directy answer your question, I hold 1:10-1:15 on the 2:00 for the shoe bits (SCM) Again, the key is to do whatever is sustainable. I know I wouldn't stick with longer sets or more 50's. When I swim by myself, I like to take a long time on the wall, but blasto when I do go. Simply adjust for what you want to do! Pay attention to where your body position is - both the angle (don't swim upstream) and the depth (try to get yourself right at the surface). Kick from the core - which I would define as the entire area starting from your chest to right above your knees. Try to keep a shallow kick, about 6 inches at most. Look at the bottom of the pool. Keep your arms in alignment and don't let any part of your body create drag (well, as much as possible). And as far as Bang for Your Buck - we aren't a huge kicking team. More lately, but quite ofen no dedicated kick sets in a workout. So as little as this may seem, as a percentage of what I have been doing - it's HUGE! Don't work on things your already good at! Given only 1 hour per day, I don't allocate the time to pulling (I either kick or do 1/2 fly) and "make it up" on my Vasa at home. In lieu of pure pulling, when I swim, I make a conscious effort to "get more square area" of my body into the pulling. By having a stronger, more efficient kick, I am higher in the water, better aligned, and thus I actually feel stronger because I am engaging more of my back and full body into the stroke rather than feeling like I am truncated at sharp angles around my shoulders. So I would say my STROKE is stronger, but that's because my stroke includes a larger amount of arm, body, and back muscles than it did before. The advice above is pretty universal for anyone. However, I strongly advise every swimmer that even with great coaching, no one but you can make that consistent effort - even if it's just 4x 50's, or a mere 4 minutes of vertical kicking! Or just pick something (all on your honor!) you are really terrible at, and work on it! You can do it! It's FUN to see how much you can improve (within the same time constraints!) - like a game!

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

orca1946 — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:27:11 GMT

Yeah, it's not fun doing the thing you are weak at - but that is what makes us better.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

debaru — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 05:01:57 GMT

Good way to clean the poop off my soles. :eeew: Of all things to forget on Friday, I left my Speedo sandals at home, so I had to go barefoot. I sure hope I didn't walk through anything as obnoxious as fecal matter.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Former Member — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 06:31:07 GMT

Good way to clean the poop off my soles.

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

debaru — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 06:16:15 GMT

I know my gym has rules about what you can and can't wear in the pool, but I don't think it says anything about shoes. :) There's another thread on this subject that has some interesting input. Kick sets with running shoes - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

fatboy — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 01:41:18 GMT

Michelle - sounds like a tough kick set. On the 4 x 50 on 2:00 set, how much rest are you getting on each 50?

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

chowmi — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:42:55 GMT

As previously posted in Gary Hall's Mythbuster #9, I do a dedicated kick workout every week. So yes, I use shoes religously. Exactly 4 x 50 on the 2:00. The key is to not think of it as kicking but rather as core work where you have some use of your legs. You must kick strong, and you still should feel the water on the front and back of your feet with the shoes on. I strongly encourage holding the board out in front of you, don't lay on it or else you just strain your back. Use a snorkel. Don't keep your knees stiff; have a natural movement, but you can easily hurt yourself if you don't first engage your core and then use the legs. Think to yourself "Forward propulsion with less drag!" not "Jerk those joints around with shoes on!" In the end, you will go faster by keeping your legs up high, rather than blowing out your knee joints. Again, consistency even at a small amount is better than nothing. If you try shoes, don't do it once or twice a season; commit to doing at least 4x50's once per week with shoes. I like to do it as 4 x 50 with shoes, then 4 x 50 without shoes (your feet will FLY!!!!!!) last 4 x 50 or 8 x 25 with fins Or as an alternative, do the 4 x 50's without shoes Super Blasto! with an easy 50 in between. then some other bits, finish up with 4 x vertical kicks (23 seconds; then rest to the 1 minute)

RE: Kick sets with gym shoes ? ?

Allen Stark — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 09:38:45 GMT

I haven't done that since high school(in the 60s.)I think it is just one of those ways of trying to do something different.It does put more strain on the legs so you work them harder,but it seems fins do that better and fins help ankle flexibility as well as not distorting the stroke as much.I don't know of any way that they would be superior to fins,but I am prepared to be educated.