Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Sat, 30 Oct 2010 05:01:29 GMT

Sorry, I don,t look at these much. But as to the two days a week, that was to just keep him ine the sport. That was definitely not a training regimen. As to a masters. Whole different ballgame. We need to listen to our bodies and go with what work. Good luck

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:33:57 GMT

I was burned out by the time I was 12 years old. I was already an old man, much older than I am now. I took up running and enjoyed the scenery and getting out into the fresh air. It was a great stress reliever and helped me forget swimming. Then I got arthritis at age 47 and couldn't run anymore so I did some weight training with a trainer. I noticed almost immediate changes in my physique, which really improved my morale. Maybe if your son took up running for awhile, learned a different skill set (basketball, soccer, for example; wish I'd done that) for a season, or took 6 weeks off to do some weight training, he would experience more of a sense of achievement. Then he could come back to swimming if he wanted to with some added strengths. I really admire your son's commitment to excellence. Unfortunately, the metrics of excellence get a little less clear after we graduate from school.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:28:49 GMT

He's still not sure exactly what he wants to do. He has put a lot of thought into the situation, as have my husband and I. Our son went to an out of town meet with the club team this past weekend, had some mediocre swims, but had a personal best in his 100 free and was close to a PB in his 50 free. It seemed to encourage him, and he had a lot of fun on the trip. He did come back to a lot of homework, and skipped practice yesterday to catch up. We have noticed that on days he swims, his mood is definitely better. Not sure if that's being at swim practice with his friends, or just that the physical activity offers him some stress relief. I reiterated to him yesterday that it's OK for him to quit as long as he stays active, but he said that he's not sure that it would help anything if he did. I do believe (as does he and my husband as well) that his academic load is the main issue. He has already decided that next year he will tone it down a bit. I did tell him that he has to skip practice at least one more day this week for his mental health if nothing else, especially since he has his coach's blessing to do so. Thanks for all of the feedback and suggestions. We're definitely taking this day to day.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:01:11 GMT

as a coach of several national qualifiers,champions, and olmpians. I can share the story of a burned out 14 year old who wanted to quit. I allowed him to swim 2 days a week and kept him in the same group. I'm very curious about this. My intuitioin is the recovery time is critical. Has there peeopel some randomized training regime studies that compare 3 days a week with 5 days a week and with some of the 2 a day regimens? A couple years ago, I made the discovery that when I'm out of shape (all too often) and want to get back into shape, I get in shape faster and better with 3 days a week than I do with anything involving days-in-a-row. On the other hand, what works for a middle-aged guy that wants to get vaguely in shape might not be the thing for young athletes with elite aspirations.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 05:53:01 GMT

what works for a middle-aged guy that wants to get vaguely in shape might not be the thing for young athletes with elite aspirations. Exactly. The recovery process is significantly different for a 15yo, compared to 25yo, 35yo, 45yo etc...

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:52:16 GMT

My twin daughters just started swimming on a competitive team at 13. They are only swimming 3 times a week until they tell us they want to do more (it may never happen). ... In today's more competitive swim environment did we do them more harm then good? Will they get discouraged because they can't compete with the kids that have been swimming longer? Will they never catch-up? I used to coach at this level as well. It's been a whilst so I do not remember exactly how many times per week they were committed to. But what I do remember though, is that these kids were absolutely great. Very brilliant. Not sure about US swim classification, but here in Canada, there's plenty of room for all levels. They're not stupid. They know that having begun at late age, and only swimming a few times per week, they can't compare to the elite guys. And as long as no one tries to brain wash them, they wont. At 13, social is extremely important. Belonging to a group. Having fun with friends. Overcoming obstacles. Improving. Improving is fun you know. And at that age, they do improve consistently. Although I don't remember everything, I do remember a few faces and names. Two names, two completely different outcomes. There was this 13yo girl, slightly overweight. Marie-Helene. She used to apply the Law in our squad. Whenever she'd see something unfair, she would complain. I used to tell her, someday, you'll probably be a lawyer. Well guess what, I meet her (pure coincidence) in the metro last year. Now age 26 I believe. She's a lawyer now. She must has spent 20min reminding me of all the good memories about that good old time. And she was still friend with other female swimmers of this same group. Another one. Alex (female). She was 10 or 11 at the time. Well, she had a successful career as a semi-pro long distance swimmer racing the FINA OW World Cup. I can't think of one single occurrence in which swimming had cause more harm than good for these brilliant little kids.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

The Fortress — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:56:29 GMT

I am glad to hear others are doing the same experiment because sometimes I look around and it seems like most everyone is pushing their kids hard in one sport or another and it makes you wonder. Same in my area. Travel and club teams from an early age. (Though I didn't let my 10 year old try out for travel soccer either.) I am somewhat cautiously optimistic in my experiment because my 18 year old played many different sports before finally, and successfully, settling on cross country and rowing at 13 and 15 respectively. Even my burned out swimmer changed sports without problem at age 15. (In retrospect, I wish I had pushed Jadie's solution above a year earlier.)

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Tim L — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 02:47:32 GMT

I'm doing this same experiment on my 10 year old. Completely de-emphasizing swimming or competition right now aside from summer league. parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/.../ I am glad to hear others are doing the same experiment because sometimes I look around and it seems like most everyone is pushing their kids hard in one sport or another and it makes you wonder. I also secretly hope that one of them catches the swimming disease/bug without my assistance because it is something I enjoy and it would be fun to share it with them when they get older and have a better understanding of the sport. Tim

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:45:19 GMT

as a coach of several national qualifiers,champions, and olmpians. I can share the story of a burned out 14 year old who wanted to quit. I allowed him to swim 2 days a week and kept him in the same group. I took slack, but this young man eventually took home a olympic gold medal. Listen to your kids and work on a solution. My own child also swam with 5 ap classes etc.He went to Harvard, and was a senior Nat swimmer. Every kid is different, and has different breaking points. By seventeen it isn' about what we want for them. It is helping them get to where they want to go.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

SLOmmafan — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 02:28:11 GMT

It's generally possible for a solid swimmer to walk on to a college team (especially DII or DIII schools). Getting a scholarship to a DI school is a whole nether level. I would argue that the AP classes will do the kid a lot more good getting into college then swimming alone will. I dropped club completely so I could play water polo and swim high school...I didn't get quite as fast as I might have been able to but still went on to divisional and sectional championships (good ole California does not have state level).

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:57:00 GMT

My concern is more the opposite. In today's more competitive swim environment did we do them more harm then good? Will they get discouraged because they can't compete with the kids that have been swimming longer? Will they never catch-up? I guess only time will tell. I know what you mean about wondering if you're doing the right thing, though. Like you, I didn't start swimming seriously (year-round) until high-school and none of my kids are there yet. I worry that I may be under the false impression that you can still start late and have a lot of success. That may not be as true now as it was 25+ years ago. Coming from a different angle -- myself, and not my kids :), I think much of it is how we define "success." Is success solely beating competitors, or is success enjoying swimming and personal improvement? Very few people will be record holders (or even masters top 10, for that matter), even if they started swimming early in life. As long as the basic swimming skills are there early, I don't think competitive swimming as a child is necessary for high school or masters swimming success. :2cents:Maybe he needs to have a physical - before assuming it's stress alone; have his blood chemistry, blood count checked too. Just to rule out any other type of deficiency. Keep it simple....Good Luck - keep being supportive!!!!!! I actually have thought of that (have obviously been doing a lot of thinking these past few days with all of the discussion going on here :)). We will certainly follow up on a physical reason if this continues for any length of time. In the meantime, I have restocked the vitamins, and am emphasizing proper nutrition and sleep. Thanks to everyone for some great and different points of view!

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

gobears — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 09:13:32 GMT

Because of my lack of competitive swim club background and my general contrarian philosophies I have tried to actually hold my kids back from competitive swimming. It wasn't like they were begging us to swim on a competitive team, but we didn't encourage it at all. They swam summer club only and I helped them with some technique that sometimes you don't get in summer club. My twin daughters just started swimming on a competitive team at 13. They are only swimming 3 times a week until they tell us they want to do more (it may never happen). The hope is that they enjoy it more in high school and later in life and don't hit a plateau in high school. I am taking the same approach with my 11 year old son. They play other sports as well and they may choose one of those other sports ultimately. Anyway, that is my little experiment with my children. My concern is more the opposite. In today's more competitive swim environment did we do them more harm then good? Will they get discouraged because they can't compete with the kids that have been swimming longer? Will they never catch-up? I guess only time will tell. Tim I wonder the same about my kids. I have them do summer league because I'm there coaching and they've always enjoyed it. They haven't been interested in swimming year-round and I can't make myself push the issue. Swimming is MY passion--and I don't think it's fair for me to try to force it to be theirs. That doesn't mean I don't secretly hope they catch the bug...:) I know what you mean about wondering if you're doing the right thing, though. Like you, I didn't start swimming seriously (year-round) until high-school and none of my kids are there yet. I worry that I may be under the false impression that you can still start late and have a lot of success. That may not be as true now as it was 25+ years ago.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:36:49 GMT

It is possible to take AP courses because you enjoy them. AP Physics was one of my favorite classes in high school. Even AP Math (advanced trig and geometry, pre-calculus - in 10th grade) was fun, although it was so difficult that I ended up with a C. 5 AP classes seems like a lot, but it could be par for the course if the person is already at an advanced level. I would have been bored out of my skull in the regular classes, so I was glad to have the option.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:42:56 GMT

TThe subject is taking 5 AP courses because his peer group values and ranks one another based on the number of AP courses one takes. This is the peer group that the subject wants to be a part of ( I am 95% sure that is not at the parents urging). Seems pretty clear to me what should be done. YouTube - Revenge of the Nerds - NERDS!

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:39:19 GMT

So, the student who excels in math and AP is the next math level course offered as a junior or senior should not take it because, why? I fail to understand the objections to pushing yourself academically. Why bother to push yourself academically at all? To be clear, I do not object to taking AP courses. I wrote, "you don't take AP courses because you enjoy them." In the context of the thread what I was really saying is you don't take 5 AP courses because you enjoy them. I didn't do 10 x 300's yesterday because I enjoyed them. When it comes to swimming we readily understand that to enjoy the benefit of being good (or somewhat good in my case) you have to do things you do not enjoy. Same goes for high school academics. The subject is taking 5 AP courses because his peer group values and ranks one another based on the number of AP courses one takes. This is the peer group that the subject wants to be a part of ( I am 95% sure that is not at the parents urging). Seems pretty clear to me what should be done.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:30:59 GMT

I have to admit that I did encourage my daughter to quit when it seemed she was agonizing too much. She tried the ramping it down some option for awhile, but it didn't really resolve the burnout. Nor any potential time plateaus. Quitting helped. She swam only 1x this summer after taking a few months off and still swam a PR in summer (really a sprint) league. She admits to "missing" swimming now. And Solar is right. You can never underestimate how important some seemingly meaningless miniscule thing can be to a teenager. Though perhaps this is more common among girls. Quitting may be what he eventually has to do to, and if he does, that will be OK. We will definitely be watching the situation. If your daughter misses swimming now, that can only be a good thing. It means that she likely won't be turned off to the sport forever. Ultimately that's what I hope for my son. And yes, we have seen through experience how the small things can make a big difference to a teenager. It's scary sometimes. I think we're all trying to relate to how we felt as teenagers dealing with this or how we feel as parents helping our teenagers deal with this. I think thinking about an analogous situation many of us can relate to might help with solutions: how do each of us deal with life when we're overloaded across work, parenting, our own exercise plans/goals, friends, family, other extra-curricular commitments. Sure, some of us just keep muddling through and try to keep all the balls in the air, but I bet most of us "quit" doing something or severely reduce our efforts at some thing. As a 40-something Type A / over-scheduling addict myself, I'm only starting to learn how to let some things go, relax some commitments, lower my own expectations. If your son can hear from you that it's OK to do so now as a teenager, I think he'll be on the road to a better balanced life. Yeah, it sounds like he's always going to be a high achiever, but if he can be a high achiever with balance ... damn, his life will be golden. I hope so! I think a lot of us are still struggling with that same thing at 40-something. I would love to think my kids will learn from my mistakes as opposed to repeating them. ok I've started 5 different replies and deleted them because they probably weren't appropriate because you are dealing with real life here. But maybe I think if the burnout is strong there might not be any turning back from it and that maybe he might still be swimming for every reason but his own. That's just a theory without obviously knowing the individual. That could very well be, but I hope not. We'll definitely be monitoring the situation closely and intervene if necessary. To keep swimming wouldn't be worth it in that case. Time will tell, I suppose.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:46:52 GMT

There is good parenting advice on this thread; which is odd because that doesn't happen in real life. Thanks to everyone who participated, I really appreciate it.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

floswimmer — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:12:41 GMT

:2cents:Maybe he needs to have a physical - before assuming it's stress alone; have his blood chemistry, blood count checked too. Just to rule out any other type of deficiency. Keep it simple....Good Luck - keep being supportive!!!!!!

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

The Fortress — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 07:15:51 GMT

Interesting thread and responses. I hate to hear stories of burn-out, but there was lots of good advice. It always seems like kids burn-out right about the time when swimming really should be the most fun (late high school, early in college). I started swimming late in high school because I had a knee injury from football and swimming was recommended for rehab. I found I really enjoyed it and never went back to my other sports. Because of my lack of competitive swim club background and my general contrarian philosophies I have tried to actually hold my kids back from competitive swimming. It wasn't like they were begging us to swim on a competitive team, but we didn't encourage it at all. They swam summer club only and I helped them with some technique that sometimes you don't get in summer club. My twin daughters just started swimming on a competitive team at 13. They are only swimming 3 times a week until they tell us they want to do more (it may never happen). The hope is that they enjoy it more in high school and later in life and don't hit a plateau in high school. I am taking the same approach with my 11 year old son. They play other sports as well and they may choose one of those other sports ultimately. Anyway, that is my little experiment with my children. My concern is more the opposite. In today's more competitive swim environment did we do them more harm then good? Will they get discouraged because they can't compete with the kids that have been swimming longer? Will they never catch-up? I guess only time will tell. Our club has been pretty good so far about not pressuring them to swim more. Tim I'm doing this same experiment on my 10 year old. Completely de-emphasizing swimming or competition right now aside from summer league. parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/.../

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Tim L — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 06:59:04 GMT

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:45:45 GMT

The kids you coached were lucky to have you. My son's 100m free isn't what your swimmer's was, but his coach has the same philosophy as you do. And your son is very lucky to have as a parent, someone that is taking time to handle this issue with nuance. I doubt that it is a case of entirely black or white situation. Shades of gray. You seem to be aware of this. We always have to keep in mind the most important: Swim training is part of your son's education. People that have successfully committed to an elite sports program during their studies end up being different. Better armed to face the multiple challenges of life. Best coaches are aware of this. And they can easily use all available opportunity to teach, not only train. And there are some lessons to be learned from this situation. Quitting without trying anything is certainly not the best lesson to teach your kid given the circumstances. Setting the table for a nice dialog involving a few adults and him, will teach him the importance of communication and negotiation. It will teach him to favor individual well being, making him feel that he is not just a number in some lane, but someone who deserves the best, even if the best presents itself in the form of a compromise. Like I said earlier, those coaches who are fortunate enough to have experimented a full generational cycle (coaching a kid for years then meeting this person as an adult decades after) know what I am talking about. For 99.9% of these people, we don't care how fast they could swim as much as how well they end up doing in life. And even for the .1%,,, the question isn't that easy to handle. I met with one of the Barcelona '92 200m *** Finalist not that long ago, she was working as a receptionist in some hotel. Not exactly what she was dreaming of doing with her life. Was making a final at the Olympics worth the cost she had to pay afterward? Not sure. You'd have to ask her the question. All the best Charles

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:35:31 GMT

ok I've started 5 different replies and deleted them because they probably weren't appropriate because you are dealing with real life here. But maybe I think if the burnout is strong there might not be any turning back from it and that maybe he might still be swimming for every reason but his own. That's just a theory without obviously knowing the individual.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:04:37 GMT

I think it's worth remembering when we were around these ages? Little issues that appear to us, as adults, as being fairly easy to handle, they would appear as unsolvable problems. Why do you think lots of teenagers behave the way they do? Difficultly to handle stress. Some react by behaving as if they were adults. They barely tolerate to be told what to do. Others become delinquents. When we're fortunate enough to have kids who can express their concerns and request for help? Man, it would be a crime not to provide them with this help. Good. By the sound of it, a lot of good will come out of this. Keep us posted!

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Former Member — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 12:12:01 GMT

Tell him to quit the swim team right away. He may be waiting for this permission from you. Being supportive is not always letting the child make the decision. They are already overwhelmed by social demands and are unprepared to make well informed life decisions for themselves. It sounds as if he likes swimming but is stuck at one level of performance. Taking AP classes voluntarily means that he is performance oriented, and probably competitive with himself more than others. He doesn't mind pushing, but swimming is now getting in the way of academics. . Thanks for your input, Michael. We have definitely considered that option. I have asked my son several times if he wants to quit, and he has said that he doesn't. My husband and I have both told him that it's OK for him to quit, so hopefully he believes us. For now, I think we are going to see how he does with cutting back. I spoke with his coach on Tuesday (as did my son), and his coach said that he hasn't seen anything in my son's performance at practice that indicates burnout, although knowing my son's personality he'd likely push himself even if he were feeling burned out. Actually, he has shown significant time drops in both his fly and his IM this past year, just not his freestyle. Definitely if he continues to feel overloaded despite a decreased training load, I will talk with him again about dropping swim. In addition to swimming burnout, I would be concerned about academic burnout, considering he has another year of high school, plus college, and probably more after that. When you add in the swimming, it doesn't leave much room for anything else. The solution that he and his coach worked out with his swimming seems to be the best. Swimming has really helped him to grow outside of academics. Trying to find a balance I think is key. Academic burnout is a definitely concern; he has always been a high achiever (as have many swimmers, I'm sure). I hadn't really thought of that, since going to school vs. not going to school isn't really an option. :) I'll definitely encourage him to take a lighter load his senior year. My husband and I have never had to push him as he's hard enough on himself, but I realize that even so, he may still feel he has to measure up to our expectations. He's fortunate to have a great group of friends, and does have some time on weekends to spend with them. I agree about the balance. Thanks so much for the reassurance.

RE: Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

The Fortress — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:13:58 GMT

As a 40-something Type A / over-scheduling addict myself, I'm only starting to learn how to let some things go, relax some commitments, lower my own expectations. Once you get the hang of it, you'll learn fast! I'm fairly reformed (whilst still being quite Type A). I now despise multi-tasking, avoid meaningless tasks, rarely volunteer and try to limit exposure to collateral noise or odd adult power tripping. It's enough to focus on the humans in my life and the few things that matter to us. For some reason, and I'm quite grateful, this seems to have rubbed off on my son.