streamlining

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:40:58 GMT

To keep the legs up it takes engagement of many muscles, air in the lungs, arm and shoulder position. It was once said that the ripple effect of fat on the dolphin made dolphins travel through the water so fast. Could this be true in humans?

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:58:19 GMT

RE: streamlining

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:27:04 GMT

I'm willing to work on it, but it seems senseless to work on something that I'm doing wrong and don't know why. My legs sink. I don't remember this being a problem when I was young. I see some of the streamlining videos and the swimmers' legs usually seem to go up...mine go down. I am pretty sure that every male's legs will sink if you do nothing with them. Mine certainly do. The reason that some streamliner's legs don't sink is probably that they compensate by pointing "down" a little bit. Because as impressive as it may be to see someone continue to glide seemingly forever, it has very little to do with fast swimming (other than possibly as feedback or maybe even a benchmark to help you develop a tighter streamline). The reason is that, very shortly after you push off the wall, you should be kicking. And if your underwater kick is slower than your surface swimming, you shouldn't do it for very long. Legs sinking, or not, have little to do with it. How tight is your streamline while kicking? And -- related to this -- how fast can you kick to 15m? Those are far more significant questions than how long you can glide after a pushoff or dive. That's just a parlor trick.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 07:40:17 GMT

Because as impressive as it may be to see someone continue to glide seemingly forever, it has very little to do with fast swimming (other than possibly as feedback or maybe even a benchmark to help you develop a tighter streamline). That pretty much sums it up - it's a good feedback exercise for swimmers who may need it. Other then that, you are right, extremely long streamline doesn't necessarily help the overal speed. At some point, a swimmer would slow down and lose more time then if they already started the break-out cycle. The key is to see if a streamline could be improved, to shave a bit of time off a race. For some swimmers, whose weak spot may be very inefficient streamline, this exercise can help. Others, it may not. As always, individual mileage varies.

RE: streamlining

gdanner — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 04:15:41 GMT

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:45:51 GMT

Woofus B. Loofus - I'm going to really enjoy my freebie two seconds during my next workout. Glad to hear finally some swimming science could bring some joy!! geochuck - How far does a person travel in a dive, then the 1.8 seconds after entry into the water from a very streamlined dive. Also is the dive time faster then 3.4 m/sec and does this mean the slowing to swim speed takes longer. On average the distance covered 1.8 seconds after the hands impact the water after a dive would be about 3.5 meters. There is a belt around the waist of the swimmer (center of mass) so that distance is how far the center of the swimmer moves in a linear direction. Generally when the hands are just breaking the surface after leaving the blocks, the velocity is around 6.0 m/sec. As most of you know, with higher velocity also comes significantly higher drag, so the glide times/velocities to regular swimming speed are just slightly longer. So a longer glide after a start is not as advantageous as one would think. Many swimmers/coaches we have worked with over the years before testing have told us they always believed there was a period of time where some velocity is sustained immediately after the feet leave the wall on a push-off, so this is why I posted the image file. The good news . . . you don't really have to hold that streamline position very long! Budd

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:06:01 GMT

Can anyone do the streamline as far as he does? Do you think it is really possible for any body type? It seems to me that the length of your various body parts, plus distribution of fat would imply that not everyone could do it as well as he does. I am very overweight and out of shape, and can do that kind of a streamline pretty easily. For me, the key was learning to feel the water, rather then fighting or forcing it. In one of the beginner clinics in which I assist, I have people do a tiny competition about how far they can float out... sort of like a streamlining long-jump.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 14:06:28 GMT

streamlining tip

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:50:14 GMT

... Hi Ahelee, how are you doing :)

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:12:39 GMT

I find my legs sink pretty quickly compared to the guy in the video. They sink much earlier than my body slows down.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:37:42 GMT

Something to consider when thinking about streamlining off the wall. The image is Velocity/Video Telemetry of a swimmer pushing and gliding from the wall. The instant of peak velocity is 3.4 m/sec. (Just as the feet are about to leave the wall.) In just 1.27 sec. (the highlighted block of time) this swimmer has slowed to 1.8 m/sec. or the speed of an average freestyle swimmer. If this swimmer continues to glide for 2.0 sec. ( .73 seconds longer) the speed is 1.44 m/sec. or 20% below regular swimming speed from above. After the feet lose contact with the wall, velocity declines at a rate much faster than most believe or "feel". (Data acquisition of this effect was collected at 1,000 data points per second) Budd

RE: streamlining

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:49:57 GMT

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 05:55:48 GMT

Budd How far does a person travel in a dive, then the 1.8 seconds after entry into the water from a very streamlined dive. Also is the dive time faster then 3.4 m/sec and does this mean the slowing to swim speed takes longer.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 05:23:19 GMT

Budd's data about the "average freestyle swimmer" covering 1.8 meters per second has me feeling decidedly less than average. 1.8m/sec has one covering 50m in 27.78 seconds. Do that speed for 1600m and you're done in 14 minutes, 49 seconds. Record books show that's pretty good for just under a mile. Two seconds after pushoff you've dropped way down to 1.44m/sec. That allows you to cover 50m in 34.72 seconds, and 1600m in just over 18 minutes, 30 seconds. That would topple plenty of age-group records. I'm going to really enjoy my freebie two seconds during my next workout.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 05:06:17 GMT

Matt Mann told me to pop out of the water after the dive. I used to do a deep dive, not kick right away engage the kick just before you slowed down too much then pop out of the water to get up and over the bow wave. Then swim downhill (not the same swimdownhill that Terry talks about) It was get up and over the bow wave and swim down the bow wave. On a dive the undewater portion covered aprox 9 yardsto ten yards,

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:56:32 GMT

stomach flat, I don't think that's possible for me anymore.

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:51:26 GMT

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 12:38:46 GMT

Thanks for the video. I just looked at this video, and his legs actually start falling (and never reach the surface), as opposed to the video I included where his legs rise. This seems like a pretty big difference, which is better? This is a function of body fat not skill. Your skill streamlining can best be measured by how far you can come off the wall. It is a fun game to experiment with hand position, back arch, shoulder position, etc etc, and see how it affects your distance. Once you have found a new best position for yourself, the next goal is to get into that position coming out of a flip turn.

RE: streamlining

ande — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:52:14 GMT

ON Streamlining Push off HARD, at a slightly downward angle to get under the surface currents & turbulence, deeper if you're going to SDK Streamline skinny, align your body hand over hand, flat & locked in position arms locked & straight biceps on ears or center of head keep your HEAD NEUTRAL, not too far UP = AQUA BRAKE, not too far down. stomach flat, back flat, curl hips up to flatten your back legs together, which means thighs, knees, calves, & ankles toes pointed BE A SPEAR not a noodle, firm but relaxed RIDE the GLIDE (meaning there's a moment after you push off where the best thing to do is hold your streamline, don't start swimming too soon, but don't hold your streamline too long) as you decellerate, begin your SDK or flutter kick or underwater breastroke pull down Don't go too shallow don't be too deep when it's time to break out if your legs are dropping you might be holding your streamline too long & should start kicking or swimming sooner this thread has some excellent streamlining VIDEOS with SDK Ande

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:10:37 GMT

Streamline very important - Most races are won by having a great dive and a great turn.You can be a very fast swimmer but if you don't have a good dive and turn your chance to win is in jeopardy.

RE: streamlining

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:57:40 GMT

I agree that streamlining is really important, but I don't quite understand what this means. When someone loses the core, does that mean that their technique becomes sloppy? Hips start wiggling? Less body rotation? You get the ugly picture...

RE: streamlining

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:54:28 GMT

When we were kids at our club we used to practice what we called the the Long Plunge. I could do 75 yards and of course we knew nothing about engaging the core. But that is exactly how we did it. The long plunge was dive in and streamline as far as you could however we did not use the term Streamline. Was talking with a coach on deck this morning who intern coached with Ernie Maglischo years ago. He was asking me questions about how I coach freestyle. He felt for the most part, "what is new is old", but in the end he did raise his eyebrows and said "well some things are really new..."

RE: streamlining

Former Member — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:40:52 GMT

I don't think that's possible for me anymore. Haha, same here. I saw a swimmer the other day whose stomach was hanging down a bit, and he didn't have very good posture. I felt bad for him. But then I realized...mine is doing exactly the same thing! Anyways, thanks for bringing up the topic of streamlining and good turns, it really helped me with my form today. I had forgotten about its value, and it made my work out a little bit easier today.

RE: streamlining

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:11:11 GMT

I believe "streamline" is one of THE MOST important skills a swimmer - triathlete - open water swimmer - lap swim/noodler can master. If done well, it sets up your core and body position for the entire next lap. As well, it reminds you to engage your strong core on each wall. If you push off loose, you just don't go as far. If you push off with an engaged strong core every single wall, you just might eventually do it without thinking. And you might just walk around on dry land more often engaging that same core you use in your streamline in the pool! One of the reasons I love short course is because it gives me (and the swimmers) more opportunities to set the core. In long course I watch swimmers lose the strong core pretty quickly around the middle or 3/4 down the length. Glenn Mills @ GoSwim.tv just posted his streamline video too. http://ht.ly/2ICB5

RE: streamlining

That Guy — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:37:11 GMT

One of the reasons I love short course is because it gives me (and the swimmers) more opportunities to set the core. In long course I watch swimmers lose the strong core pretty quickly around the middle or 3/4 down the length. I agree that streamlining is really important, but I don't quite understand what this means. When someone loses the core, does that mean that their technique becomes sloppy? Hips start wiggling? Less body rotation?