been a while!

RE: been a while!

taruky — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 07:08:59 GMT

I have literally been working on things for 3 years now. I'm infinitely better than I was back then, but still have a long way to go. My stroke now still has remnants of my bad habits but much less exaggerated. When I first came to this forum I was looking for the holy grail of stroke mechanics, and was asking a million questions. Rather than keep looking for a new drill or new way of thinking, I now repeat those things that I know over and over, staying cognizant of how I should be doing it. Slowly, very slowly, things get better. Someone like me whose stroke was soooooooo pathetic 3 years ago had a lot farther to go, so it takes longer.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:51:32 GMT

Yeah ill definitely have to set aside my instant gratification mentallity

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:01:25 GMT

Makes sense I guess that applies to the rolling-over-a-barrel analogy as well. I have gotten so many great ideas, and now I need to prioritize... woooo good times haha

RE: been a while!

orca1946 — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:45:11 GMT

You will not fix everything in one season.

RE: been a while!

pwolf66 — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 09:26:35 GMT

i'm sorry for my ignorance, but, whats EVF? And how am i leading with my elbows? (again sorry for the questions ive never been coached or anything before) Your first arm movement is dropping your elbow which robs you of a good catch. Try to focus on the first movement being to drop your fingertips towards the bottom of the pool. Keep your wrist straight as the idea is to get your lower arm nearly perpendicular to the bottom to start your power phase.

RE: been a while!

pwolf66 — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 09:22:21 GMT

Oh one more thing, how is it that engage my core? The only I even slightly feel my core doing any work is when I do flip turns Flex your glutes to lift your butt slightly.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:08:40 GMT

Are there any useful drills for correcting this or is it just something ill have to be consciously aware on every lap? I tried it this morning and I definitely felt like I was going faster but I had to literally think about turning my elbows on every stroke otherwise I would screw up

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:31:16 GMT

I was always told to force my toes to point :x

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:26:22 GMT

The kick looks stiff. I like a loose flexible ankle, it seems that you are forcing the toes to point. Most of the drag is that the catch phase is not holding onto the imaginary wall of water. Elbow dropping - slippage, then butt is deep in the water because of head position.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:18:40 GMT

Oh one more thing, how is it that engage my core? The only I even slightly feel my core doing any work is when I do flip turns

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:13:22 GMT

Thank you guys for taking the time out of your day to help a beginner haha. I will work on all these things and maybe I can do a follow up vid in a few weeks? Also, no one said anything about my kicking? I feel like I don't kick at all and that's causing tons of drag, or is the drag just caused by me dropping my butt as previously stated? With that being said I was thinking about getting some fins and the finis snorkel, do you guys think that would be a worthwhile investment?

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:06:52 GMT

A little more. When you come off the wall from the push off your chin is up, it should be tucked in to almost touch your chest. The top of your arms should be touching your ears. You are face is up after you start swimming almost looking strait forward.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:38:52 GMT

I would work on head position you seem to be looking forward. Your butt is very low caused by head position and your dropped elbows while they are undewater. Your elbows should be at 90 degrees to the wall, they appear to be at 45 degrees. :bliss::bliss::):)Tuck the strings inside the jammers, they are hanging loose.

RE: been a while!

taruky — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:10:49 GMT

What everyone is getting at is this. When your arm (which is about to catch) is extended, you need to internally rotate your shoulder a bit without rotating your hand. In other words, your elbow, rather than facing the bottom of the pool, should face the side when the arm is extended. This allows you to flex your elbow in a way that keeps it in front of you on the catch, gets the forearm and hand downward/vertical, and then catapults you forward on the pull. Your forearm paddle gets vertical and begins working from out in front. The whole leading with your elbow mistake basically means that if your elbow is farther back than the forearm and hand, the forearm and hand logically cannot be in a vertical orientation. The benefit of the vertical position is obvious; the pull forces are all straight back, so you go faster. What you are doing in the video is essentially pulling your arm back with little grasp on the water until your forearm gets to about your upper to mid chest level. Your forearm gets vertical late. If you youtube guys like Ian Thorpe of Grant Hackett, it will be clearer.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:44:04 GMT

Elbows are dropping. Imagine wrapping your extended arm outward over a big barrel. As it begins to travel under your torso...throw the barrel and the water back. High elbow is a key ingredient of early vertical forearm. That what you want to strive for. And what George said about the head position...keep you head in neutral and look down at the black line. After you find the right horizontal line, then work on having the eyes looking slightly ahead. Old School * Head sticking out of the water a bit at the top. * Eyes looking forward at an angle to the vertical. * Neck muscles engaged to carry the head's weight. * Spine line curved in an ‘S-shape'. * Core muscles not engaged New School * Head ‘totally immersed' in the water but ‘only just'. * Eyes looking straight down. * Neck muscles relaxed with minimal ‘tone'. * Spine line as straight as is comfortable. * Core muscles engaged

RE: been a while!

taruky — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:54:15 GMT

There are some drills. Dryland, you can put your arm up against the wall as though you are swimming to the ceiling, rotate your body like you would swimming, and practice rotating the shoulder/elbow while keeping the hand flat against the wall. You can also do the same thing with a lat pulldown machine, work on keeping the elbow above head level as you catch, then pull the elbow, forearm, and hand in the same plane towards your feet. The idea is to help create muscle memory. In the pool there are some devices that can force you to do that to create any propulsion. As it is now, you are kind of fooled into thinking you are gripping water because you feel pressure on your hands. The problem is the pressure is not straight back, and the forearm may be even less vertical than the hands (you ideally get the majority of propulsion from the forearm). Some drills which take the hand out of the stroke force you to get the forearm in the right direction in order to feel resistance against the forearm. One is the fist drill. Just swim with closed fists (don't clench too hard, you aren't trying to create strain in the forearm). Finis has a device that you hold in your hand which essentially does the same thing (called PT paddle). Another is the technopaddle, which Tom Topolski (in this forum) developed. It takes the hand out and helps drop your forearm into proper position. There is also the Finis forearm fulcrum which basically locks your wrist so your hand and forearm have to be in the same plane. There are other variations, like holding a ping pong ball in each hand between the thumb and index finger, leaving only the last 3 fingers to engage in the stroke (I like this drill a lot). One thing I find helps me is to think of the initial catch as a gentle drop of the wrist and forearm, keeping the elbow in front. It should be a relatively relaxed and slow part of the stroke and should begin shortly after your other recovery arm exits the water. Of course your elbow has to be in a reasonable position to do this otherwise the forearm can't drop and you end up actively trying to push the forearm down. So practice extending with that internally rotated shoulder (not overly so, again just so the elbow faces the side wall) but keeping the hand facing the pool bottom. Good luck.

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:54:55 GMT

nvm i looked up evf. some further explanation on how im leading with my elbows would be awesome haha :P

RE: been a while!

Former Member — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:48:34 GMT

i'm sorry for my ignorance, but, whats EVF? And how am i leading with my elbows? (again sorry for the questions ive never been coached or anything before)

RE: been a while!

Allen Stark — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 07:46:09 GMT

Timing and rhythm seem good,but you really need to work on EVF.You are leading with your elbows instead of your forearms.