Channeling my inner Janet Evans

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:14:11 GMT

Chris, Well said. The Michael Phelps experiment should have put this issue to bed. SAR is simply not as fast, right? As for open water, the arguments for it sound legit to me. Why is phelps the deciding factor in what works or doesn't work for other people? Just because it doesn't work for him, doesn't mean that it won't work for others.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:03:39 GMT

I couldn't resist this thread...anything to do with Janet Evans just fires me up! She is, to this day, the most inspirational swimmer to me. And not just because of her results...it was her training regime that was so AWESOME. Anyone else swimming 20 X 400 descends would be puking and praying for death not smiling and looking all hot. Doing even one --just one --of her daily workouts would be an achievement. Janet Evans was a gritty swimmer and ferocious competitor...who just happened to swim with SAR. People seem to think that she became great because of her technique. I don;t buy that. One other thing, and this is not meant to take anything away from Janet Evans. I often hear comments to the effect that so-and-so great champion became great because of their "ferocious competitiveness," the fact that they just "won't let themselves lose." The list of such athletes is long: Evans, Jordan, Armstrong, Phelps, etc etc. I do not doubt that such people are indeed driven to a degree that most of us can barely fathom. But the implication (usually as told by the sports media) is often that these people are pretty ordinary, talent-wise, but have some inner quality that elevates them above the hoi-polloi. This story is especially appealing to the American psyche. Desire alone isn't enough. I have known quite a few hard workers and many lazy talents. A great champion is almost always an extremely unlikely combination of crazy-competitiveness and crazy-talent, and Evans was no exception to this rule. It added up to an amazing swimmer.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 05:50:31 GMT

People seem to think that she became great because of her technique. I don't think that is correct, though there may be some people who think she became great IN SPITE OF her technique. I think that when someone is successful with an unorthodox style, people are going to notice. And perhaps question assumptions about what constitutes good form.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

MAC swimmer — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 05:06:55 GMT

Chris, Well said. The Michael Phelps experiment should have put this issue to bed. SAR is simply not as fast, right? As for open water, the arguments for it sound legit to me.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

MAC swimmer — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 03:30:14 GMT

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:09:04 GMT

I don't have a lot of videos of myself swimming. My only common free events are the 200 and the 400/500, and I don't know that those are all that different speeds. Here is my 500 at Clovis: www.floswimming.org/.../178358 Your turnover isn't as fast as I thought it would be for the 500, with you using a straight arm recovery

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 01:10:35 GMT

Your turnover isn't as fast as I thought it would be for the 500, with you using a straight arm recovery I"m a slow-turnover/DPS guy in pretty much all my strokes.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:13:57 GMT

I use a high-elbow recovery, which is most comfortable for me and has worked thus far (meaning, I'm afraid to change it. :)). However, my 13 year old daughter recently changed from a high elbow to a straight arm recovery. Her touchy shoulder recovered completely within two weeks, and her speed and efficiency improved immediately. Interestingly, her SAR was a by-product of her coach correcting her stroke on the first day of practice of the season (her left arm wasn't extending fully and was crossing the midline on her pull). Some of the fastest age group swimmers I see have a straight arm recovery. I haven't observed your daughter so I have no idea if this applies to her but crossing the midline and shoulder problems both are commonly a result of the swimmer not rotating enough. Some swimmers recover with the elbow behind the scapular plane when they try a high elbow recovery without incorporating enough roll to keep the elbow in front of the body.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:02:49 GMT

Hmmm....worked okay for Janet. YouTube - 1988 Olympic Women's 800m Freestyle final - Janet Evans I use SAR for all distances, including OW distances. The turnover rate increases for sprints, of course. Chris, how about some video of you swimming freestyle at various speeds?

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:47:11 GMT

Chris, how about some video of you swimming freestyle at various speeds? I don't have a lot of videos of myself swimming. My only common free events are the 200 and the 400/500, and I don't know that those are all that different speeds. Here is my 500 at Clovis: www.floswimming.org/.../178358

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 06:51:41 GMT

SAR works for anyrace up to 100 meters Hmmm....worked okay for Janet. YouTube - 1988 Olympic Women's 800m Freestyle final - Janet Evans I use SAR for all distances, including OW distances. The turnover rate increases for sprints, of course.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 06:43:57 GMT

I haven't observed your daughter so I have no idea if this applies to her but crossing the midline and shoulder problems both are commonly a result of the swimmer not rotating enough. Some swimmers recover with the elbow behind the scapular plane when they try a high elbow recovery without incorporating enough roll to keep the elbow in front of the body. That makes a lot of sense. It could very well be the issue with her. If it is, I would venture a guess that her coach has noticed and has been working with her to correct it. Her coach (and my son's coach) and my masters coach are one in the same, and I try hard to keep us all separate; I hear only what my kids and the coach tell me. I figure that swim work ethic, technique, etc. can stay between the kids and their coach. I don't want to be one of THOSE parents. :)

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:40:48 GMT

Why wouldn't it work for longer distances? It does. Straight arm recovery is very much an individual thing. There are lots of people who believe it is flat out wrong or that it is only for a sprinter. There is no right or wrong recovery for an individual, just the one that works for you. Don't listen to someone that says "it is wrong or it only works up to..." Listen to your body. Pay attention to how you feel. Pay attention to your times. Only YOU can decide what is right or wrong for your distances.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 05:02:57 GMT

SAR works for anyrace up to 100 meters

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

debaru — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 01:16:47 GMT

SAR works for anyrace up to 100 meters Why wouldn't it work for longer distances?

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:27:18 GMT

I use a high-elbow recovery, which is most comfortable for me and has worked thus far (meaning, I'm afraid to change it. :)). However, my 13 year old daughter recently changed from a high elbow to a straight arm recovery. Her touchy shoulder recovered completely within two weeks, and her speed and efficiency improved immediately. Interestingly, her SAR was a by-product of her coach correcting her stroke on the first day of practice of the season (her left arm wasn't extending fully and was crossing the midline on her pull). Some of the fastest age group swimmers I see have a straight arm recovery. I'll stop wondering why they don't teach my kiddo high elbow then :chillpill:. She swims like a windmill, which right now makes a good backstroke, but a strange-looking freestyle.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

orca1946 — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:04:35 GMT

Too many decades of high elbow, but I'll try it soon.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:10:20 GMT

Yes, straight-arm recovery for me; no shoulder problems. I have switched to a more straight arm recovery as well. My shoulders aren't hurting anymore. I have more of a side arm swing than an over the top swing. I am able to swim comfortable again for various distances. Still working on gaining speed and endurance with the stroke but it is a lot better than when I was swimming with a high elbow style recovery

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

debaru — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:22:14 GMT

I have switched to a more straight arm recovery as well. My shoulders aren't hurting anymore. I have more of a side arm swing than an over the top swing. I am able to swim comfortable again for various distances. Still working on gaining speed and endurance with the stroke but it is a lot better than when I was swimming with a high elbow style recovery Well, it looks like I'm in some pretty good company (you, Elaine-iak, Chris, and gdanner). :agree: I've always been a side arm swinger myself, which is why I switched to high elbow about 6 months ago, with the hope of improving my speed. Switching did result in an increase in my speed and DPS, but it's not worth having a "touchy" right shoulder. After experiementing with SAR for the past week, I'm now of the mindset that I'm probably more of a side arm swinger because this is how my 55-year old anatomy works best. :) But, SAR seems very natural to me and feels much more effortless. It'll be fun to see how it all adds up over time.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 05:03:07 GMT

I was just curious as to how many others in Masters-land regularly swim using straight-arm recovery. Yes, straight-arm recovery for me; no shoulder problems.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:40:57 GMT

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

debaru — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:27:32 GMT

...my 13 year old daughter recently changed from a high elbow to a straight arm recovery. Her touchy shoulder recovered completely within two weeks, and her speed and efficiency improved immediately. Did your daughter take any time off before swimming with SAR, or did she simply switch from one style to the other while maintaining the same training schedule?

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

gdanner — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:21:47 GMT

I was just curious as to how many others in Masters-land regularly swim using straight-arm recovery. You can count me as one. My race pace free has always been SAR, but my low endurance pace (EN1) is with a high elbow catch. I was taught high elbow catch when I was a kid, but I think SAR comes naturally when I'm going faster. It's hard to remember how I was taught since I was 5 or 6 years old when I started. I've never had shoulder problems and it's worked for me for 20+ years, so I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

Former Member — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:52:17 GMT

Did your daughter take any time off before swimming with SAR, or did she simply switch from one style to the other while maintaining the same training schedule? My daughter is a "social" club swimmer, so any changes she made weren't completely intentional. It was more fear of the (perceived) wrath of her coach. :) Basically, the kids have three weeks off between the end of LCM season in July and the beginning of SCY season in August. She was moved up to a higher practice group, and the coach of her new group noticed that she wasn't extending her left arm fully on her freestyle. He pointed it out to her on the first day of practice, and she says that he also told her to straighten her arm some on her recovery. Her shoulder pain is gone, and it took only three weeks to disappear completely. It was bothering her some at the beginning of the season. She is practicing noticeably faster, and we're interested to see how that will translate to meet times.

RE: Channeling my inner Janet Evans

debaru — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:12:55 GMT

Thanks, Kristin. I appreciate the details. :)