GO DARA GO!

RE: GO DARA GO!

Karl_S — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 05:31:36 GMT

No, that would make him a fraud and a cheater. In pro cycling, I am not sure that "best ever" and "fraud and cheater" are mutually exclusive.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 05:29:42 GMT

Everyone in cycling was using ped's and Lance beat all of them. He is the greatest athlete all all time, better than Jordan and Phelps.

RE: GO DARA GO!

aquageek — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:16:36 GMT

Now let's suppose that Lance did use ped's. That simply leveled the playing field and he is still the best bike racer ever to live. No, that would make him a fraud and a cheater.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Karl_S — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:11:42 GMT

Everyone in cycling was using ped's and Lance beat all of them. He is the greatest athlete all all time, better than Jordan and Phelps. Let's suppose Lance did not use ped's. Then what he did is astonishing. Now let's suppose that Lance did use ped's. That simply leveled the playing field and he is still the best bike racer ever to live. On the real topic of this thread, Dara is a great inspiration. I had just started competitive swimming again after a 26 year break when the media was hyping Dara in the run-up to the '08 Olympics. It made me think, "maybe swim racing in your '40's isn't all that crazy." When Dara's Olympic career is *finally* over, I hope she shows up for some USMS meets.

RE: GO DARA GO!

aquageek — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:03:38 GMT

Everyone in cycling was using ped's and Lance beat all of them. He is the greatest athlete all all time, better than Jordan and Phelps. Well, that's absurd. You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if all you do is one sport. I suggest you google Jim Brown. Armstrong is not even the greatest cyclist of all time.

RE: GO DARA GO!

bzaks1424 — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:54:05 GMT

So yeah! :hijack: Yay Dara Torres! For being awesome! 43 years old and still faster than I could ever dream of being!

RE: GO DARA GO!

SLOmmafan — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:23:42 GMT

In the 1990's no one had really gotten caught yet (using PED's), or at least hadn't seen the high level of media and even congressional scrutiny into the issue that we have in the past few years. Steroids are still used widely across this country and others, including at the amateur level and by those who just want to improve physique. But I would think high level athletes have seen the level of downfall a positive test can have on someones career (Landis anyone??)

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:59:36 GMT

Things are so much different now than they were even 10 years ago. Training methods, nutrition, medicine. Think about how many football players have ACL or MCL surgery and comeback...all the MLB pitchers that come back BETTER after Tommy John surgery. You can say what you want about PED's but I'll give Dara and Lance the benefit of the doubt. Its a sad world we live in when every time an athlete excels, we assume they are doing something to cheat. There were "athletic anomalies" in every generation even before steroids. There has always been people who are simply better than the rest. Call it evolution if you will. I will give Lance the benefit of PED's

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:17:50 GMT

It's been HOW many years and neither of the athletes you tried to spread your :censor: on have been caught doing anything illegal or against the guidelines of the sport. So how about bringing something a little more concrete because your typical tactics are :notworking:. The East Germans tested clean for nearly 2 decades. I have mixed feelings about Dara being clean but I BELIEVE that Lance used preformance enhancing drugs.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Waterdog7946 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:48:47 GMT

RE: GO DARA GO!

bzaks1424 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:13:34 GMT

However, I am puzzled by the never exhausted after workouts. Never? Hmm ... I must be overtraining. Drylands kill me. You and me both. That makes very little sense to me. The mere fact that you're breaking down muscle structure and burning up energy in the body would seem to be a pretty strong factor in the "making me tired" category. I would say if you don't leave the gym at least a little exhausted you probably aren't trying nearly hard enough!

RE: GO DARA GO!

pwolf66 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 08:59:25 GMT

Gull, Pwolf doesn't think that discussions shold be a part of this discussion forum. Stop it! Really? And you managed to glean my thinking how? Oh, I have no problems with discussions but your original comment was the equivalent of a pre-pubescent ring and run. So stop being a :troll_with_sign: and actually bring something to the discussion other than heresay and innuendo. It's been HOW many years and neither of the athletes you tried to spread your :censor: on have been caught doing anything illegal or against the guidelines of the sport. So how about bringing something a little more concrete because your typical tactics are :notworking:.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 08:54:55 GMT

So, is Marion Jones innocent or guilty using that yard stick? How about McGwire? And, that standard applies to criminal conduct, not dope in sports. Oh, throw in Roger Clemmons based on his yard stick

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 07:53:47 GMT

and look...they all got caught!!! end of story...Lance and Dara have never failed a test. I can see beating a test once, or twice. How many tests have they passed?? How many tests did Marion Jones pass? ALL OF THEM. She didn't get caught either by the powers that be. If you want to get technical, the East German women never got caught either. They passed there tests as well. Once the east german sports machine crumbled, did we learn the truth about them. Saying that they have passed their tests doesn't mean that don't use ped's.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:32:34 GMT

I bet for every one of your "athletic anomalies" I can trump you with 3 or 4 "drug anomalies." Michelle Smith-Ireland- Swimming Marion Jones-USA-Track Ben Johnson-Canada-Track East German Women's Swim Team Chinese Women's Swim Team- 1990's verision of East German Women- might be due to them using a number of former East German Team doctors. Angel Martino(Myers)-USA-Swimming- booted off the 1988 Olympic team. Claimed it was her birth control medicine. Geek- if you need more- just go look under "Track/Field", "Weightlifting", "Cycling"

RE: GO DARA GO!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:26:02 GMT

You are dead to me. Did you get your brief in a wad?

RE: GO DARA GO!

debaru — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:18:43 GMT

Oh, throw in Roger Clemmons based on his yard stick Hey, don't forget Pete Rose!! :bolt:

RE: GO DARA GO!

aquageek — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:47:43 GMT

My yard stick is simply innocent until PROVEN guilty. So, is Marion Jones innocent or guilty using that yard stick? How about McGwire? And, that standard applies to criminal conduct, not dope in sports.

RE: GO DARA GO!

Waterdog7946 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:09:12 GMT

No, it's not the end of the story, not in the least. Tests are typically developed after the drugs are in use and therefore often don't catch the offenders at first. If passing a test is your yard stick, I bet you loved baseball in the 1990s. Also, many sports and entire countries have notoriously weak testing standards (Cuba, Haiti, China, former Soviet Bloc). My yard stick is simply innocent until PROVEN guilty.

RE: GO DARA GO!

aquageek — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:00:18 GMT

and look...they all got caught!!! end of story...Lance and Dara have never failed a test. I can see beating a test once, or twice. How many tests have they passed?? No, it's not the end of the story, not in the least. Tests are typically developed after the drugs are in use and therefore often don't catch the offenders at first. If passing a test is your yard stick, I bet you loved baseball in the 1990s. Also, many sports and entire countries have notoriously weak testing standards (Cuba, Haiti, China, former Soviet Bloc).

RE: GO DARA GO!

Waterdog7946 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 03:24:33 GMT

Michelle Smith-Ireland- Swimming Marion Jones-USA-Track Ben Johnson-Canada-Track East German Women's Swim Team Chinese Women's Swim Team- 1990's verision of East German Women- might be due to them using a number of former East German Team doctors. Angel Martino(Myers)-USA-Swimming- booted off the 1988 Olympic team. Claimed it was her birth control medicine. Geek- if you need more- just go look under "Track/Field", "Weightlifting", "Cycling" and look...they all got caught!!! end of story...Lance and Dara have never failed a test. I can see beating a test once, or twice. How many tests have they passed??

RE: GO DARA GO!

chowmi — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 02:21:11 GMT

Do you think the Dara stretching helps? I read one of her books and thought it was very superficial. Where does she disclose her 5 exercise cycles and what are they? I have to check out Bethany Frankel just cuz you said that. And I am very anti-surgery myself. No time or energy for that whatsoever. However, I am puzzled by the never exhausted after workouts. Never? Hmm ... I must be overtraining. Drylands kill me. Don't put that on your butt, girl! Blech, so Juicy Couture. I find many gems in Dara's books. The question is, can you bridge some of the things she writes to how it can help your own swimming, motivation, or choices? In DARA's Gold Medal Fitness book, there are 5 exercises (sorry, not cycles, just 5 exercises) with 3 variations of degree of difficulty. You can modify them! The stretching in the book is the same as the video, along with one bonus stretch (in the book). I personally love the stretches, but again, it depends on your baseline and perhaps how true-to-form you do them. You may not benefit as much, given you are in an advanced state of awesome atheticism already. For me, my baseline dryland was so weak that they made a pronounced difference in my strength and flexibility. You and another poster above - are awesome! I admire how tough you are! Great mental and physical attitude, and execution. You are not overtraining - do what you feel like doing! Regarding the exhaustion comment, let me put it this way: I work hard selectively and I strive to work smart, like picking and chosing your battles! And thus I avoid that overall exhausted feeling, although I did crank some real quality swims in my 15 minute window! And regarding drylands, if you chose to do the DARA 15 week program - you won't feel exhausted - more like, somewhat uncomfortable due to working your weakest muscles. But the overall weight moved around - is not much.

RE: GO DARA GO!

bzaks1424 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 02:15:27 GMT

I bet for every one of your "athletic anomalies" I can trump you with 3 or 4 "drug anomalies." Would a drug anomaly be where an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs and their performance goes downhill? Just ... thinking if they were opposite....

RE: GO DARA GO!

aquageek — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 02:09:06 GMT

Its a sad world we live in when every time an athlete excels, we assume they are doing something to cheat. I bet for every one of your "athletic anomalies" I can trump you with 3 or 4 "drug anomalies."

RE: GO DARA GO!

pwolf66 — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 01:48:06 GMT

I will give Lance the benefit of PED's You are dead to me.