6000 yrds - 5 X Week

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Rykno — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 03:09:57 GMT

17 year old boys gain weight. It's what they do. I think I gained 10 lbs/yr in high school and the first 2 years of college. I should have been more clear, he's put on about 10lbs of muscle. he's more than 10lbs heavier total

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 16:27:25 GMT

If the young fellow has shoulder problems it may just take some stroke modification. A lot of coaches don't seem to have time do work on stroke technique, it is yards, yards, yards. As far as weight I am a non believer in its usefullness.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 15:47:18 GMT

I really wish I'd saved a copy of the long interview Swimming World did with Bob Bowman a few years back because he had a lot to say about proper development of the teenage swimmer. He was a big proponent of not starting lifting too soon, and talked about how he didn't start Michael Phelps on a weights program until after Michael had been an Olympic gold medalist. (or around age 19-20)

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:59:29 GMT

we have a17yr old on our team that swims 9 times a week with 3 land training, no weights other than his own body weight or rubber bands and he has put on nearly 10lbs this past year. 17 year old boys gain weight. It's what they do. I think I gained 10 lbs/yr in high school and the first 2 years of college.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 06:01:51 GMT

If that were my kid I would encourage him to drop swimming entirely. Shoulder problems and rehab at 14? Not worth it. The same goes for the weightlifting. What is the point of destroying your body at such a young age? Regardless of what the root cause is, the effects seem to be pretty serious. It seems obvious that the best course of action is to take a break from the activities that are causing pain, and focus on rehab. Whether or not to pick up competitive swimming again afterwards depends on why he is doing it in the first place.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:33:54 GMT

Should we even try to compare what I did and what they do now. I remember the start out in Sept. Even though I had raced all summer. It was a 5 minute warm up. Then 4 x 5 min swims, trying to get under 5 min for a quarter mile (I was the only one who could). Then a cool down swim of 5 minutes. After each swim stroke, correction. This was done in combination with other work outs on two other days during the week. I doubt we ever went over the 2000 mark during a work out. Of course our week included 3 X 1 hour waterpolo practices a week.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:19:28 GMT

I don't remember how many yards or meters we did at practices when I was young. I do about 3000 now on my own. But, I do a bunch or sprints and drill sets. If I were doing distance practices, I could see getting 5-6000. Figure you could just do 6x1000 on 15min. That would be a 90 minute session. That's not so bad for early season conditioning. Doesn't leave much room for drills and sprints and starts.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

knelson — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:09:34 GMT

Figure you could just do 6x1000 on 15min. That would be a 90 minute session. That's not so bad for early season conditioning. Sure, if you want to die of boredom!

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

aquageek — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:14:39 GMT

We had a HS junior who was lifting his usual this past winter and tore his labrum. He was out for the rest of the year and missed the HS state champs where his HS team won the state. His rehab was intense. It makes me hesitate when I hear any HS kids lifting. Their body weight is all they need at that age. I agree with this. 14 is really young to be doing a bunch of weights.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

swimshark — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:49:10 GMT

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Rykno — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:54:26 GMT

not counting medicine balls and rubber bands I didn't touch a weight until I was 16. it's a good thing too because my body overreacts to weight lifting. in college my roommate wanted to gain 5-10lbs of muscle. so he was taking all kinds of suppliments. we worked out together. I would sometimes try my max on bench, legpress and tri's just to show off. but even though my roommate got stronger, he was not getting as strong or as large as me. we have a17yr old on our team that swims 9 times a week with 3 land training, no weights other than his own body weight or rubber bands and he has put on nearly 10lbs this past year. he swam 200 fly LCM at the recent Junior Euro champs 2:05.00 and his 200fr relay split was 1:52.83

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:40:01 GMT

Thank you all so much for your help. He does have a full year of 5 x a week swimming workouts....however this summer has been under the care of an orthopaedic dr. and physical therapist for swimming related rotator cuff problems. He has Dr. orders to stop if the rotator issue is aggrevated. His coach is aware of this, so I think I'll have him tell the coach he is experiencing "popping & grinding" just moving his arm, and we'll take it one day at a time.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:10:23 GMT

Weights for a freshman seems too young btw, but I suppose it depends on the type of exercises they have them doing. Just curious, how old should a kid be before lifting? And why is a kid lifting more of a strain than swimming 30K a week? Sorry that sounds snarky, but I'm genuinely curious.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:36:38 GMT

6k a day is not very much many teams do more the issue is how accustomed the athlete is to that workload how it was phased in for an athlete who isn't used to training that much. the yards per day is one issue, how the athletes do the yards is the key issue 100%. Hell, I'm doing 5,000, 5x a week now. I ain't burned out and have never had shoulder issues. I'm still using the same large blue paddles (with the holes) I used in college. Like Ande said, its all what you are accustomed to. Mine will fluctuate too depending if I'm doing "Quality" or more "Pace/Distance" training.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Former Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:12:39 GMT

It is called "burn em out fast" get rid of those who cannot handle it.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

gdanner — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:58:59 GMT

Just curious, how old should a kid be before lifting? And why is a kid lifting more of a strain than swimming 30K a week? Sorry that sounds snarky, but I'm genuinely curious. My thought process was that having kids trying to max out in weights would be far too stressful on underdeveloped joints and bone structures. Much more so than swimming at that age. Too much of anything can be a bad thing, so it's hard to speculate without knowing the sets he's throwing at the kids and the weights routine. Plus, high schools don't usually have strength trainers. So you're relying on the swim coach to know and teach proper lifting technique. I see bad technique in the weight room causing more problems than bad technique in the pool. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the topic, scientific studies are very limited. There are documented cases of kids lifting at young ages and it works out (e.g. Todd Marinovich, well at least through college until he had a mental break).

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

gdanner — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:34:42 GMT

I'm in agreement with the others so far. Those are common distances for competitive swimmers of several years. But most importantly, if he's already having shoulder problems, that's a red flag for him personally. Tendonitis is tough to recover from. And not trying to sound like a hardass, but sometimes kids want a decreased workload and make up excuses. Positivity spreads, but so does negativity. So I'd take it with a grain of salt that other kids complain about their shoulders. Just worry about your grandson and try to get his work adjusted without telling the coach how to do his job. Maybe not a bad idea to speak to other parents. If a kid is complaining about his shoulders all day long, it's probably legit, but if he forgets about it as soon as he gets home, then you wonder... Weights for a freshman seems too young btw, but I suppose it depends on the type of exercises they have them doing.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

ande — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:09:21 GMT

6k a day is not very much many teams do more the issue is how accustomed the athlete is to that workload how it was phased in for an athlete who isn't used to training that much. the yards per day is one issue, how the athletes do the yards is the key issue After week one, that's what our local High School Swim team's workouts consist of, even for relative newcomer freshmen. My 14 yr. old grandson has been swimming for just over a year competitivly. He was in rehab most of the summer for rotator problems. I understand there are several on the team with shoulder problems. Is this amount of yardage the norm? I should add, they do some dry land & weights in addition. It occurs to me that a "one size fits all" workout might be easy for some, and big problem for others? Thanks for your insight. Georgio

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

knelson — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:43:47 GMT

I'm not a coach, but I swam through college. Seems to me that he's doing a lot of yardage for his experience level and (to a lesser extent) age. You mentioned he's been swimming for less than a year, which is the problem I have with this. Yes, this is definitely the key point here, because 30K per week isn't really a lot for experienced swimmers. I remember in HS my team swam probably 6K 5 nights per week, plus a couple mornings of maybe 3K and Saturdays.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:26:53 GMT

www.usaswimming.org/ViewMiscArticle.aspx Thanks for the link, Speedo! I can say from personal experience that several of these exercises were a lifesaver (shoulder saver?) after my shoulder surgery for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. I was taught several of these by my physical therapist, in post-surgery rehab, and I recovered very well. And, by continuing to do them, my shoulders have stayed healthy and strong, since getting back into swimming and joining USMS, in February. BUT, having said that, I know my limitations. And, 3,000 yds in a day seems to be it before fatigue sets in to the point where my shoulders have had it. And, that includes avoiding most kicking drills, because of the position my shoulders and arms have to be in to perform the drill. Advice to all: LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! Don't push yourself to the point of injury. Been there, done that, and it, well, :censor: !

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

Speedo — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 04:56:46 GMT

I'm not a coach, but I swam through college. Seems to me that he's doing a lot of yardage for his experience level and (to a lesser extent) age. You mentioned he's been swimming for less than a year, which is the problem I have with this. Overuse injuries are a problem for those who ramp up quickly without a lot of guidance on how to swim properly. There are ways to refine your swimming to reduce the chance of overuse injury. If he stays with this team make sure he talks with the coach about technique to reduce overuse injury- if the coach is disregarding this aspect of swimming, your grandson may have a short swimming career. More experienced swimmers also get shoulder problems, so the goal should be to reduce the probablility through technique changes, and to do shoulder exercises such as these published by USA Swimming recently. I do these and they help me a great deal. www.usaswimming.org/ViewMiscArticle.aspx I hope this helps- good luck to your grandson.

RE: 6000 yrds - 5 X Week

swimshark — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 04:20:53 GMT

I used to be in the camp of "high yardage gives the best result" and went with a team that did well over 5000 yards in 90 min practice 5 days a week and 6000-7000 in a 2 hour practice on Sat. But then my times started slipping. So I went in search of a new team. My new team has taught me quality over quantity. My coach now has us doing about 3000-4500 in that 90 min window with 6000 in the 2 hour practices (the kids do doubles/afternoon 2 hour practices where they do 5000 but I can't make those). He emphasizes technique which can't be worked on when you are just trying to crank out length after length. And we have more ranked swimmers than the former team (let me clarify that I practice with an age group team). I don't think that high yardage is the way to go any more. My times are dropping in both distance and sprinting. I see kids burning out less and I see them a lot happier now.But.. I also know that for some the high yardage training is what they want and if that is the case, then they are with the right team. If that is not what they like, then they won't get good results from a high yardage team like that.