Swim Myth #9....Busted!

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

chowmi — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:13:48 GMT

Tee hee! I am honored, Gary, but again, it's not the best time of my life cycle to take on more than I can handle! Your workout is great; here is a modified "easier" workout. I think a lot of swimmers give up because it's an "all or none" mentality. I think the key is to do a bit at a time, make it sustainable, before you stop from failure. Kicking is HARD! Here's what I did my last workout on kicking. See how it's much, much "easier" than Gary's, but it is probably a good starting point for most people. It is for me! SCM; adjust for SCY, LCM 500 warm up 100 free/back/free/***/free. Stop at every 100; "regroup" your thoughts, emphasis on perfect form, pushoffs - not on speed. 100 kick - anyway you want. make sure your legs are ready for the next sets! 4 x 50 kick on 2 minutes with shoes (or parachute, or just kick!). use snorkel and hold board out in front of you, but don't grasp tightly. use only for a little balance and try to engage your whole body. Do not kick from the knees only. Pay attention to body alignment. You have to do these strong. 8 x 50's kick without shoes, use board as normal. You actually do 1357 kick. These are fast! Fast speed, fast feet, body high in the water. Do 2468 easy swim. Total time is on 2:30 each. 100 easy 8 x 25 with fins. First 4 underwater backstroke kick (fly kick). 2nd set of 4 are freestyle kick, adding the arms at the 15 meter mark using about 25-50% effort on the arms. Emphasis is on starting to feel the arms working with the legs. 100 easy 4 x 50's swim from a dive. First: 12 1/2 fast; easy Second 25 fast; easy Third: 37 1/2 fast; easy Fourth: full 50. Try to grab someone to time you. Pay attention to how you are using your legs on the swim. You can "correct" by "leading with the legs". Don't "collapse" your body upon entry; don't "leave your legs behind" as you "spin your wheels with your arms". Work your dives. A dive starts before you get on the blocks. Before you step up, think about it, and get up with purpose! Your entire body has to "prepare" for the dive before you are up there. Especially in your own pool, you should know the blocks intimately. That is the "home team" advantage at meets! No interval. Be mostly rested between each. Do easy swimming in between. I do about a 100-150, more in between 3 and 4. Finish with 4 x vertical kicks on 1 minute. Free/fly/free/fly. Kick for the length of your GOAL time, fast tight kicks. Hand placement your choice. Then easy to the 1 minute. Stay out in the water; no hanging on walls in between. Warmdown. Now say to yourself, you did awesome!!! 'Cause you really are! Other thoughts: you aren't doing this workout on your own for conditioning or yardage. Carlos had a great point - feel and position just as you have in a true race - and the same goes here. This is a time to FEEL what you are doing - not only working legs, but pushoff position/rate of speed/depth & angle of your pushoffs/breakout & maintaining speed as best as possible; timing of your strokes, engaging the legs & not dragging them (the sensation is my tummy sags and I am like that hot dog toy with the slinky in the middle; it's a bad thing to feel like you are "collapsing" in the water and "faking your way to the finish" instead of that wonderful but elusive surge downhill and crashing through the wall to the finish!). and last for Fort - the reason I am so accomodating is because I modify every pull set! Last year I did 1/2 whatever the set was with a strap. This year I am either doing every other 50 all fly, or I blatently ask, "What's the next set? Really? Ok, i'm going to sit this one out to rest up for the main set!" That's got to really annoy some people. And in all honesty, three years ago I would be thankful for people stepping to lead the lane. Now that I am improving, it's rather hypocritical of me to complain about serial pullers when the real reason is because I want to race them on the main sets!!! tee hee!

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 09:39:30 GMT

These Swim Myth discussions are awesome! This one is nearest and dearest to me! It is what I currently work the most on, and here is another way of saying essentially the same thing: First, I see nothing "wrong" with putting on those big 'ol paddles (and your pull buoy! and add fins, too!). Virtually everyone in our fast lanes 1 and 2 do this. Mostly for speed, only a few for health reasons. Who am I to judge why they do it? Most will say it is indeed a crutch, and for most they don't compete, don't intend to, and so their goal is to swim every set as fast as they can, with whatever equipment is socially acceptable (at DAMM, anything is allowed), and to hold their positions in lane 1 and lane 2. If you asked them what intervals they currently hold, held last year, 5 and 10 years ago, it would be the same answer. The only difference is they are now wearing equipment. Again, this is perfectly fine and they get a great workout in, see friends, and that's all they want. But if you want to get faster in a race...... Pay attention to Myth #9 in particular! Here are a couple of ways I think about how to allocate my workouts. They may help you, too: If the premise is you have about 1 hour per day, do you think you get faster by working on things you are already good at, or would you get more bang for the buck by working your weakest skills? If you are a good puller, or pull faster than you swim, then why keep working that instead of the other end???? Let's assume you already do some weight bearing/gym exercises, so it's not that your upper body muscles are too puny. And while you can always get stronger, always strive for a higher translation of dryland training to effective swimming, I now feel I am limited by my joints, but not by the muscles themselves. So the DIFFERENTIAL is much greater if I work on body alignment through the back half/legs, instead of spending precious time on (isolated) upper body work during my 1 hour. If you can get yourself more level in the water, that is, using a constant kick, a stronger kick, and also holding your body position "tight" but not rigid, then you won't be using your shoulders to bear the brunt of the pull. Think: the ideal is you don't pull - you are catching-anchoring-pushing-releasing (almost a slingshot sensation upon recovery, instead of lifting an anvil). You can only do that if you are high enough in the water having the proper balance to get up and over the proverbial barrel. The other benefit of getting up on the water with a steady kick is that you can't have proper arm stroke (and thus, low efficiency) if you aren't in alignment. You will fishtail, stall, etc and there is absolutely no way you can begin to think about whether your elbow is high, because you are compensating for your back half fishtail/swinging hips, x-ing around. And thus the vicous cycle of dropped elbow, underbody arm pull, too far out armpull, weak recovery, etc... If you want to work on your technique, always start with the legs. Everything else follows. The hard part is the application - how do you actually do it?!!! I fully agree to devote 1 day a week to kicking - and other things you would need in a race but don't get to practice in organized workouts - starts, turns, breakouts, etc. It's hard, really hard, and at first will feel uncomfortable, unnatural, and in general like you may be wasting your time. That is all natural. Just keep in mind that it's easy to grind those shoulders and do yet another pull set. It's in your comfort zone because you're good at it! It's really hard to make yourself do an extra kick set and/or working on your body alignment - it won't seem like you are going any faster, you might go slower, and it just takes your breath away! It also isn't done in isolation. If it were a gaurantee that if you did x amount of kicking or ankle stretches and you would get faster, then we'd all be doing it. It may also require you to adjust your timing, arms, breathing, head position - everything, and from slight to pronounced differences. But give it a try? What have you got to lose?!!! PS - to Fort, you can try variations of med ball - weight, speed, unstable surface, and find a load bearing wall to throw against if you don't have a partner. Nice post, Michelle!! I still want you to be our Community Leader for World Fit in Dallas! We are shooting for 200 schools next year. Won't you reconsider.....please? Gary www.worldfit.org.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:27:36 GMT

This is the #1 reason why you should never use a pull buoy. Disengaging the legs is insanity. If you swim faster with a pull buoy, you need to fix that by kicking harder, not by using a pull buoy all the time. So then are kick sets "insanity" as well? After all, they disengage the arms... Personally, I get a LOT out of a pull buoy. It's the closest you can get to being tapered and high in the water. It allows you to work on strength per stroke while still focusing on raw technique. I've always been a believer in the benefits of working out immediately after a taper meet b/c you start out the season knowing what it feels like to swim tapered while incorporating that into your workout. A pull buoy allows for the high position in the water that you get when fully tapered, which is significantly higher than a standard 6 beat kick in the middle of the season.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Celestial — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:10:55 GMT

But I get so tired when I kick! :)

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:34:44 GMT

These Swim Myth discussions are awesome! This one is nearest and dearest to me! It is what I currently work the most on, and here is another way of saying essentially the same thing: First, I see nothing "wrong" with putting on those big 'ol paddles (and your pull buoy! and add fins, too!). Virtually everyone in our fast lanes 1 and 2 do this. Mostly for speed, only a few for health reasons. Who am I to judge why they do it? Most will say it is indeed a crutch, and for most they don't compete, don't intend to, and so their goal is to swim every set as fast as they can, with whatever equipment is socially acceptable (at DAMM, anything is allowed), and to hold their positions in lane 1 and lane 2. If you asked them what intervals they currently hold, held last year, 5 and 10 years ago, it would be the same answer. The only difference is they are now wearing equipment. Again, this is perfectly fine and they get a great workout in, see friends, and that's all they want. But if you want to get faster in a race...... Pay attention to Myth #9 in particular! Here are a couple of ways I think about how to allocate my workouts. They may help you, too: If the premise is you have about 1 hour per day, do you think you get faster by working on things you are already good at, or would you get more bang for the buck by working your weakest skills? If you are a good puller, or pull faster than you swim, then why keep working that instead of the other end???? Let's assume you already do some weight bearing/gym exercises, so it's not that your upper body muscles are too puny. And while you can always get stronger, always strive for a higher translation of dryland training to effective swimming, I now feel I am limited by my joints, but not by the muscles themselves. So the DIFFERENTIAL is much greater if I work on body alignment through the back half/legs, instead of spending precious time on (isolated) upper body work during my 1 hour. If you can get yourself more level in the water, that is, using a constant kick, a stronger kick, and also holding your body position "tight" but not rigid, then you won't be using your shoulders to bear the brunt of the pull. Think: the ideal is you don't pull - you are catching-anchoring-pushing-releasing (almost a slingshot sensation upon recovery, instead of lifting an anvil). You can only do that if you are high enough in the water having the proper balance to get up and over the proverbial barrel. The other benefit of getting up on the water with a steady kick is that you can't have proper arm stroke (and thus, low efficiency) if you aren't in alignment. You will fishtail, stall, etc and there is absolutely no way you can begin to think about whether your elbow is high, because you are compensating for your back half fishtail/swinging hips, x-ing around. And thus the vicous cycle of dropped elbow, underbody arm pull, too far out armpull, weak recovery, etc... If you want to work on your technique, always start with the legs. Everything else follows. The hard part is the application - how do you actually do it?!!! I fully agree to devote 1 day a week to kicking - and other things you would need in a race but don't get to practice in organized workouts - starts, turns, breakouts, etc. It's hard, really hard, and at first will feel uncomfortable, unnatural, and in general like you may be wasting your time. That is all natural. Just keep in mind that it's easy to grind those shoulders and do yet another pull set. It's in your comfort zone because you're good at it! It's really hard to make yourself do an extra kick set and/or working on your body alignment - it won't seem like you are going any faster, you might go slower, and it just takes your breath away! It also isn't done in isolation. If it were a gaurantee that if you did x amount of kicking or ankle stretches and you would get faster, then we'd all be doing it. It may also require you to adjust your timing, arms, breathing, head position - everything, and from slight to pronounced differences. But give it a try? What have you got to lose?!!! PS - to Fort, you can try variations of med ball - weight, speed, unstable surface, and find a load bearing wall to throw against if you don't have a partner. Excellent advice! (And so very tolerant where others aren't. :applaud:) I just take my med ball to the racquetball court and slam away every which way. Love it.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

chowmi — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:49:52 GMT

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 06:14:49 GMT

I always found that in Ocean swims I had to almost eliminate my kick in order to keep my legs in the water. I imagine that I must have been too bouyant. Even in lake or pool water my legs were very high no matter how hard I kicked. I was a level floater, heels and hands both slightly out of the water. Measured lung capacity was 2nd largest capacity that had been measured in my time.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 05:25:49 GMT

Someone on the forums had mentioned the swimsmooth videos. They have a couple videos of some excellent triathletes who, despite having "frozen" ankles (not sure what else to call them, but they just don't flop around like elite swimmer feet), manage to swim VERY fast, and use six beat kicks. They aren't vigorous, driving kicks but they do seem to be offering something that is important enough that even in a long open water race, and despite having stiff ankles, they will keep up a steady kick.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:54:32 GMT

Here is a great leg workout. Be prepared. Bring a wheelchair to practice. 1) Warm up 200 drill, 200 swim, 200 kick 2) Kick 5 x 100 with Finis snorkel and Finis alignment kickboard, keeping head down, body in proper alignment. Medium rest....all out. 3) Kick 5 x 45 seconds on the wall with Finis snorkel....all out, followed by 15 seconds rest. Try to maintain 100% intensity for all 45 seconds. Repeat on 1 minute interval. 4) Easy 100 swim 5) Kick 5 x 100 with fins and alignment kick board and snorkel ...all out, medium rest. 6) Kick 5 x 45 seconds in vertical position with fins with arms in PERFECT streamline position above. Head always above the water. Fast tight kicks. No breaststroke kick allowed. Only flutter. 15 seconds rest between (start on 1 minute) 7) 100 easy swim 8) Medicine ball throw. Play catch using 10 lb med ball with someone on the deck kicking with fins with hands above head at all times. Try to reach 30 throws or more (record here is 55 throws). Repeat 3 times with 30 seconds rest. 9) Kick 5 x 100 with fins, alignment kick board, snorkel and drag parachute. All out with 30 seconds rest. 10) Easy 100 swim 11) Kicking tug of war. in the middle of the pool put hands on a pvc pipe about 18 inches long and face against your partner. On whistle, try to kick the other person to the wall. I recommend you do this short course! Keep arms stiff. PVC pipe on surface. each swimmer must use same stroke, flutter, frog, dolphin...otherwise it doesn't work. Frog kick trumps all. 12) Easy 100 Grab wheelchair. Exit stage left. Gary

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

The Fortress — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:33:37 GMT

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

rtodd — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:02:17 GMT

Let me check to see how much unused sick time I have at work.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:13:57 GMT

Here is a link to help improve ankle flexibility (with cool sock photos). www.goswim.tv/.../dryland---ankle-flexibility-exercises.html Phillip is a great inspiration for all who still want to have a strong kick over age 50! But he works at it very hard! Gary Sr.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

pdjang — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:50:19 GMT

Here is a link to help improve ankle flexibility (with cool sock photos). www.goswim.tv/.../dryland---ankle-flexibility-exercises.html

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

orca1946 — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:42:55 GMT

I M H O the 3 beat kick is great if you are a 20 something swimmer in a TRI, but the rest of us need to save rour legs for the other bike- run events.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:29:55 GMT

Ankle flexibility is an important factor and determines how you use your kick. A swimmer without flexible ankles can actually hurt their propulsion by kicking. If you kick poorly you can improve of course but if you're racing and need your best time, some swimmers could actually get a better time by trying to float their feet and kick less. If you have big feet and very poor ankle flexibility you may be better not kicking at all and simply trying to keep them as pointed as possible. So, keep working on improving your kick but you need to know where you stand and timing your kick is a great way to measure that effectiveness. I get a kick out of coaches screaming "Kick, kick,kick" while they move their arms wildly like legs, trying to get their swimmers to kick faster when the swimmer they're motivating has anchors (flat feet). Know your kick before you kick kick kick and that simply means training hard and training smarter go hand in hand. Good luck, Coach T.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

__steve__ — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:26:05 GMT

Spending my workout kicking only is a good way to let my shoulders regain health.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:26:41 GMT

Very well put, and by far one of the best swim clip I have ever seen so far on the Web. Very nice Job Gary, I shall never forget this. This is the sort of approach that works so well with kids. Great stuff Gary. Great stuff!

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

That Guy — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:23:22 GMT

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

That Guy — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:55:30 GMT

I suppose if I were training many hours per week, there could be a place for pulling drills. But since I swim about 5 hours per week, I do not carve out any time for pulling. As for triathletes, my advice is to learn a good 2-beat kick. I've completed two ironmans and two half-irons with a 2-beat kick. In each instance I did very well on the swim portion and did not tire out my legs.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Former Member — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 05:08:02 GMT

Here I have to respectfully disagree, although your point of view isn't a bad one per se. For me a pull is just a tool, it doesn't own a brain. In itself, it can't be bad or good. There are times and situations where it has its place (most definitely in fact). The simplest application of using a pull the right way is to overload upper body muscles with a demand that is higher than if a given set was to be performed full stroke. Overloading, in this context means overloading though. Not under-loading like you suggest. A fair compromise between staying ultra-specific and a visit to the gym. That's the swim specific overloading principle. More specific applications can become very important as well, although most people on this site aren't concerned by those applications. For triathlon training, a pull can do a lot of good by giving you great flexibility in managing the overall load across the 3 discipline. Overloading is the key work here ThatGuy. Reducing the overall energy expenditure in using it isn't sound. Moving the overall load from the whole body up to the upper body is what I mean by overloading. That said, Gary might want to save the topic of pulling with a buoy for another myth so this is probably my only post about the Pull Buoy within this thread, just to keep things inline with OP's topic.

RE: Swim Myth #9....Busted!

Bobinator — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 02:35:51 GMT

Fantastic video clip gary!!!!!! Okay I'm going to start working on kicking!!