Scapular swimming

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 09:59:05 GMT

Welcome back to the Forums, Isobel! :welcome: I'm glad you introduced this topic, because it saved my shoulders! I, too, have permanently disposed of zipper and fingertip drag drills for the same reason. A former Masters World Record freestyler who lives in my town no longer competes due to shoulder problems, and he was a HUGE proponent of both of those drills. He did them all of the time (and probably wondered why he had shoulder pain). The old school style of freestyle may be great for kids and Olympians; however, we can't expect longevity in the sport if we are still swimming that way as AARP card-carrying Masters swimmers. These days, I don't care how slow I swim freestyle as I learn my new stroke technique. It's either Scapular Plane Swimming or :bolt:.

RE: Scapular swimming

isobel — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 08:22:33 GMT

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! So sorry for ever introducing this concept! Izzy here, long silent on this forum. I definitely do not do zipper drill or fingertip drag because that pinches my shoulders. Otherwise, I have been trying to make myself show up for four practices a week and avoid shoulder pain. I do not think about scapular plane swimming anymore. I am working hard on core strength (brutal, slow-motion bridges with glutes engaged; I hate them!) (brutal, abs held, glutes-squeezed-for-dear-life planks; I hate them!) (SWIMMER magazine so amused me with its recent pictures of the guy able to hold a plank with one arm while practicing shoulder rows with the other; I would fall onto ground). For shoulders I do theraband rows, external rotation, shoulder-height straight-arm pulls, slow in, slow out. I try to focus REALLY HARD during practice on what feels good anatomically (a fancy way of saying I try to avoid all shoulder pain when swimming). My bane is kind of curling into a "C" shape when breathing to the right, such that I am pulling out with left arm to left as my head and body are kind of curling into a C toward the right as my head turns for air. Screw scapular shoulder swimming, this is obviously torque to the nth. So I am focusing really hard on body balance. I can tell I have better balance on one side than the other. There was one video 8 years ago on this thread that showed very beautiful freestyle where the guy never lifted his arm behind his back (i.e., outside of that there scapular plane). I think with good rotation and good body balance it is possible to swim well with the revered EVF :bow:and still keep arms parallel to back at all times through stroke cycle. I say this flippantly but I still think there is some truth to this idea of keeping the stroke within your body's plane.:worms: Now, when will we get leaves on the trees here in Boston? Shazam!!!!!!:bitching:

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 04:08:30 GMT

I finally heard back from Kipp Dye regarding my question as to whether my revised freestyle resembled his definition of "Scapular Plane Swimming," and he confirmed that the video I sent him of my stroke, and he said, "...from what I see, you do understand the concept." I have been working on my stroke, and I had my husband shoot a side view of it today. Rather than my usual breathe right going down and left coming back, I swam 50 yards of each in this 100. I still have some flaws to work out (keeping my left arm straight out from my shoulder on entry before the pull, for starters...); however, this is what Scapular Plane Swimming looks like being swum by a 56-year old Masters swimmer. (For an example of Olympians swimming this style, check out, Natalie Coughlin on free, and Michael Phelps on fly for the best examples!) www.youtube.com/watch lzIvNSA1B&t=0s&index=54 One thing I can tell you for sure. Since I have lost the high-elbow recovery and rely more on my back muscles for the arm recovery, my shoulder has been feeling better. This is my version of Scapular Plane Butterfly at my very slow 200 fly pace. I obviously still have a lot of work to do to get a decent fly! :blush:: www.youtube.com/watch Since completely eliminating the elbow bend on recovery and relying on my back muscles to recover my arms (rather than my shoulders), it feels a lot better! Comments, (constructive!) criticism, advice always appreciated it! :agree:

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:25:52 GMT

My right shoulder occasionally bothers me. Usually more after doing fly than free. I'll have to remember this technique next time my shoulder bothers me, too.' Two words about fly to remember: Michael Phelps. Every time you recover your arms in fly, imagine recovering your arms like Michael Phelps with a straight arm, low recovery. I also read in one of the USMS articles to pinch your shoulder blades together as you recover to take the stress off your shoulders. I am working on strengthening those muscles, so I can do that effectively throughout a 200 fly race. Why use this technique only when your shoulder bothers you? If you use this technique all of the time, there will be less of a chance of your shoulders bothering you in the future! I'm hoping this technique (and all of my dryland work) will prevent shoulder issues in the future! :agree:

RE: Scapular swimming

67King — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 03:59:06 GMT

For those reading this and thinking "I don't have these shoulder issues" that is great. What works for each of us is unique which is why it is important to critically think about what you read and see if it works for you - or does not. :) Paul FWIW, I am CONSTANTLY tweaking my stroke (which is one of the reasons I posted the thread about an actual program, to learn a bit more). I enjoy reading these kinds of threads to read different approaches. And I've noticed that a lot of things boil down to semantics. Gary Hall talks about a high elbow pull, whereas others talk about an early vertical forearm. Compared to a deep pull, they are pretty much the same (though I'm sure there are details I'm missing). My right shoulder occasionally bothers me. Usually more after doing fly than free. It is interesting to read about this recovery approach. I have stopped using paddles for part of my pull sets, as while I noticed it helped me be sure I had my hand entering and pulling properly, I was twisting my hand to keep the paddle in place (only have the band around ht middle finger so the paddle moves when I mess up, giving me feedback) when finishing my stroke, which led me to swinging my arm wide in the recovery......which is essentially what this method does (appears to, anyway). I'll have to remember this technique next time my shoulder bothers me, too.

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 03:35:11 GMT

Thanks, Paul and Julia! I appreciate you both continuing to weigh in on this. I'm sure there are other Forumites in my shoes who are considering adopting this style of swimming. Regarding the finish, I will attempt to find a happy medium between finishing at the hip and exaggerating the finish! Thanks to both of you on this. I received a message from thewookiee who had posted previously on this thread. He said he had spoken with Kipp Dye about Scapular Plane Swimming technique, and Kipp explained that he should imagine swimming freestyle with a butterfly-like recovery. He said that Natalie Coughlin is one of the best examples. Here is today's attempt. One thing I notice is the messy hand entry. I'll work on cleaning that up!: www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Scapular swimming

Swimspire — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 02:30:47 GMT

Hi Elaine, sounds like a plan (and good on you for doing some great volunteer work!). Actually I don't think Windrath and I are in disagreement about the finish. You definitely want to make sure you get in a complete finish, but you don't want to exaggerate the finish by overextending, and putting undue pressure on your shoulder joints in the process. Good luck!

RE: Scapular swimming

Windrath — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 07:33:42 GMT

ElainK - I think you are on the right track and need to do your own critical thinking about what scapular mechanics involve. I am 100% in favor of as much arm movement being in the frontal plane of your body. The reason I believe in finishing with a straight arm and touching your thumb to your thigh is because it DOES make it easier to recover on the front side of your body than finishing your pull at your hip. Let me be more specific that your thumb should touch the outside front of your thigh and the pull should finish at that point followed by a hip rotation upward (in fact your whole recovery side including the shoulder) to clear the arm for recovery. I agree with Julia that your hand/arm should never come out of the water on the dorsal (back side) plane of your body. The other reason for finishing to your thigh is equally important. When you finish your pull at your hip and immediately begin your recovery, it means you won't have enough time to get your other arm into the optimal pulling position. This leads to the issues you have been dealing with: hand entry outside your shoulder, not a deep enough catch, etc.. Yes, your tempo might be higher, but I doubt your speed can be maintained for very long (contrary to the article by Kyle, etal). I find the shorter stroke also make it a challenge to engage a 6 beat kick if you should want to use it. Short strokes usually lead to 2 beat or 3 beat cross-over kicks which okay for longer races, but not good for shorter ones if time is important. The finish to the front of the thigh corrects all of that IF you: a) finish at your thigh, and b) rotate your hip upward (and shoulder) before starting the recovery. In my experience, many swimmers (especially older ones) don't rotate the hip (and shoulder) upward before starting the recovery - even one of the world record holders (in his 80s) I am coaching right now. My shoulders have been "bad" for 47 years - water polo injuries, separations, strains, etc.. No surgeries. All of my mechanics are based on what allows me to swim fast without pain. The hip and shoulder rotation is my key. When Mary Beth (my wife and training partner) has shoulder issues and tells me, the first thing I ask is if she is finishing and rotating before recovery. Almost 100% of the time, this reduces or eliminates the discomfort. As for finishing your fly pull at your hips, I tend to advocate that for us older and slower swimmers AS LONG AS the initial recovery motion is out-sweeping around the sides (like making snow angels. Finishing at your hips and starting the recovery by lifting your elbows is an injury waiting to happen. For those reading this and thinking "I don't have these shoulder issues" that is great. What works for each of us is unique which is why it is important to critically think about what you read and see if it works for you - or does not. :) Paul

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 01:59:34 GMT

Thanks for your advice, Julia! You are the other coach I was hoping would join in on this conversation. I appreciate it! Although the cause of my left shoulder pain wasn't from swimming (It was from the repetitive stress of the volunteer work I did last spring in the Dominican Republic that caused bursitis and impingement in my left shoulder.), I would agree that the discomfort has persisted due to the stroke flaws you pointed out. I'm fine on days I don't swim a lot of freestyle; however, last weekend, I raced the 1000 on Saturday and 500 on Sunday, which worsened the discomfort. It was a wake-up call to switch back to Scapular Plane Swimming. Why did I make the switch away from my 2013 stroke? It was advice I was getting from several different coaches on how to "improve" my stroke. Between a World Record-holder who lives in my town, to a couple of coaches who are in Georgia Masters who I see at meets, and others; I was encouraged to go with the high elbow on both the pull and recovery as well as to finish my stroke at mid-thigh. All of them were stressing DPS, finger tip drag, and zip drill. Now, after returning to this thread and re-reading it completely (in addition to reading everything else I could find on the subject), I see that for me and the health of my shoulders, I need to do the following: 1. Avoid those drills and go with a low-swinging arm recovery that keeps my arm level with my shoulder and back. 2. Keep my more-comfortable deeper pull rather than trying to get my elbow higher. (This goes for breaststroke, too!) 3. Finish my pull on both freestyle and butterfly at the hip. 4. Work on improving a consistent kick. 5. Sacrifice speed for shoulder health! The biggest challenge I have in freestyle is landing my left arm in the right place. In the 2013 video, it lands outside of my shoulder. Otherwise, it has a tendency to overshoot the target and cross over. I also have a tendency for my left hand to slide out before the pull rather than stay straight; however, I'm not as worried about that, because I don't believe it is causing any pain. Regarding building core strength, that has been part of my dryland routine for years. I had back surgery in 1987, and I have always done ab-strengthening since then. I have also been doing yoga for two years and Theraband exercises for years; and, I returned to weight-lifting at the beginning of the year. I have also been doing planks and other miscellaneous exercises for my core most days of the week since I joined Masters in 2010. In all, I spend a good 45 minutes, six days per week on dryland-- aside from stretching. What I DO see I need to CHANGE is the way I am doing my drills. My one-arm drills in the past involved finger-tip and zipper drill. I'm thinking of more progression drills of kicking with my arms at my side and then rotating from side to side with my face in the water. Then, progress to one-arm where I breathe on the opposite side of the recovery arm, and then change to breathing on the recovery side, before progressing to full stroke for the final part of the drill. All of this needs to be changed with a LOW elbow, straighter arm recovery that is low to the water, where I keep my elbow in my peripheral vision when I breathe. Hopefully, I can learn to do this with a consistent kick and landing my left arm IN FRONT of my shoulder, rather than outside or crossing over. Does this all sound right, Julia and Paul? I know you differ on where the arm should finish on the pull (see below); however, Scapular Plane Swimming calls for ending the pull at the hip. I'll have to go with Julia and Kipp Dye from www.osmed.net on this once. Now, if I could get my freestyle as good as my breaststroke, I would be :bliss:! Thank you very much to both of you for your help! ElaineK - a) Make sure your thumb touches mid-way down your thigh an the end of each stroke. - finishing past your hips and flicking the left arm out of the water, almost across your back, rather than finishing just at the hips. This can also put pressure on the shoulder.

RE: Scapular swimming

Former Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:46:59 GMT

ElaineK - Ah - the subtlety of our sport is what makes it interesting. Admittedly, the swimmer in the video is younger and still has some range of motion that we lose as we get older. We also have to acknowledge that the elite athlete has physical assets that slower swimmers do not. Having said that, look more closely at the body position while the arm comes over the top. The arm is, for the most part, on the frontal plane of the body. His body stays rotated until his arm has passed forward of the shoulder and then he rotates onto his stomach and to the other side. This is the relationship that most coaches and swimmers miss. For alot of reasons, most swimmers do not stay on their "pulling side" long enough which makes this kind of recovery possible. Two of the reasons are: their head is too high and/or they are trying to pull to the outside to get a "high elbow" catch. The latter reason results in early rotation onto the stomach which messes a good recovery. Full disclosure - I believe in keeping the pull side of your body lower than the recovery side until your hand passes your hip. Some people might call it late breathing. I just think it brings hip rotational power into play and connects the legs to the arms through the hips. This part is so hard - coaching through the internet. As I watch your 3-23-19 video, it is my opinion that you are rotating back towards your stomach too early in the pull. I would try to pull deeper (think about reaching to the bottom) and "stay" on your pulling side longer (until your pulling hand is past your hip). Try to imagine swimming from side-to-side and avoiding time on your stomach. If what you did today felt better, that is a good thing. As I get older, I think more about what feels good instead of what goes fast. Afterall, swimming every day means it has to be enjoyable and rewarding. Anything that gets in the way of those two things is counter-productive no matter how technically correct it might be. :) As hard as it is to coach on the internet, it is equally hard to interpret internet coaching and trying to simulate it in the pool. Good Luck and let me know how it goes. Paul Wonderful advice as usual :)

RE: Scapular swimming

Swimspire — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:23:33 GMT

Hi Elaine, So sorry to hear about your shoulder! I took a look at both the 2013 video and the most recent clip you posted and although its difficult to ascertain exactly why your shoulder may be causing you pain, I can definitely see some issues that could lead to this. While in many cases, the arm recovery could be pinpointed as a source of shoulder pain, I believe that in your case the issue is mainly with the left arm pull and finish. I've included some screenshots below from the March 2018 video. First, you can see that you cross over during the hand and arm entry. After that, your outsweep extends outside of the plane of your body and the rest of the pull happens outside of your body instead of pulling more towards the center of the body. You can see this in the first two screenshots. Additionally, you can see in the video, (you can see it better on the 2013 video but also I can see it on the most recent video) that your kick tends to "freeze" while you are pulling with the left arm. Without the kick to support you, you're relying mainly on your arm to pull you through the water. Coupled with the way you are pulling, this puts additional pressure on the shoulder. Finally, as you can see in both the 2013 and present video, you tend to have an exaggerated finish - finishing past your hips and flicking the left arm out of the water, almost across your back, rather than finishing just at the hips. This can also put pressure on the shoulder. What I would recommend is to really work on deconstructing your stroke and rebuilding it - building up both sides of the body, building balance and core strength and in the meantime, protect your left arm while it is hurting. Work on single arm right arm, work on kicking/ rotation and make sure that you are not aggravating that shoulder anymore. Good luck and hope your shoulder improves quickly! 11503 11504 11505

RE: Scapular swimming

Windrath — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:14:19 GMT

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 03:03:12 GMT

Paul, I checked out that video, and it actually seems to be in contrast to what Kip Dye is advocating in Scapular Plane Swimming. The rule of thumb is to always keep your elbow in your peripheral vision when you breathe (as opposed to having your elbow high and out of vision on recovery.) In the video you posted, the elbow is straight up and would seem to torque the shoulder even more. I would think this style of freestyle would be best for the Janet Evan types with very loose fascia and forgiving joints. What do you think of my 2013 style of Scapular Plane Swimming style if I were to get my arms to enter properly in front of my shoulder? I worked on it today, keeping in mind following through on the pull and keeping my recovery hip high until my arm was in front of my shoulder. It felt pretty good. I agree with you completely on the high elbow pull. It stresses my shoulders! I use a deeper pull on every stroke for that reason. Thanks for your time and help; I appreciate it!

RE: Scapular swimming

Windrath — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 09:41:43 GMT

Hi ElaineK - Thanks for posting a current video. Let me go into a few more aspects regarding my freestyle philosophy. Before that though. Comment #1: I read the three articles you attached to your first post. I did not find them helpful in explaining scapular swimming in layman's terms. Comment #2 (to Arrieros post): I also dislike the finger-tip drag drill because most swimmers do it without the appropriate body rotation. Comments: a) Let me be a bit more specific about hand entry. I like the hand entry to be between the head and shoulder. In fact, I like my shoulder to come very close to touching the side of my head on entry. When you try this, have someone give you feedback to make sure you are not crossing over past your head. b) I do NOT coach laying your hand /arm on the surface of the water. This leads, more often than not, to a dropped elbow pulling pattern. I like the concept of stabbing into the water, so your hand is lower than your elbow which is lower than your shoulder. I do NOT like a high elbow pull with the elbow being close to the surface - not many people can do this well and those who do usually have monster kicks or shoulders that are very "forgiving". My definition of high elbow catch is the elbow being higher than the hand which, in my mind, is anywhere from 9 - 24" below the surface of the water. Yes, this is divergent from accepted philosophy. :) c) This next aspect is huge and the sequence is critical. I believe that after touching your thumb to your thigh, you rotate your "recovery" hip towards the ceiling (20-30 degrees) and keep it there for much of the recovery. Next, the arm recovery should be initiated by lifting your hand out of the water instead of starting the recovery with lifting your elbow out of the water. Yes, I like a straighter arm recovery. To do this well, your palm should be facing the bottom at the end of the stroke (very important) and finger tips pointed towards your feet. The recovery action should feel like someone pinching the skin on the back of your hand and lifting your hand out of the water. The key to this recovery is that your body is rotated so your recovery hip is higher than your pulling side hip. Your entire recovery arm should be on the front side of your body. And, your entire arm, throughout the recovery, should be on the front side of body. I cannot emphasize enough that this last point is huge. d) Does your arm have to be straight during the entire recovery? In my opinion, NO. Only during the initial 25-30%. After that, do what feels comfortable. What is important is that your enter arm stays on the front side of your body. ElaineK, when I watch your video, it appears to me that you initiate the recovery by lifting your elbow and your recovery side starts rotating towards "flat" at the same time. Try the sequence above. If it is too confusing, simply try doing a straight arm recovery (not a straight arm pull). Of course, it is going to feel awkward and different. I looked for alot of video and find this matches my philosophy the best: www.youtube.com/watch. Let me know what your questions are. :) PW

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 04:03:41 GMT

Paul, here's my first attempt at your suggestions. I see that I still need to go lower with the elbow. (Note: I am eliminating the push-off and streamlining, so more of my stroke shows up in the video. In addition, I do not do flip turns due to having Meniere's.) Any suggestions? I sure would appreciate it! Thanks in advance! www.youtube.com/watch EDIT: I tried to correct the year in the date of the video, but YouTube won't let me! :bitching:

RE: Scapular swimming

Former Member — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 12:29:44 GMT

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 09:18:43 GMT

I’m looking forward to more posts and videos on this subject too. My shoulders have been bothering me a lot lately with a high elbow recovery, not to mention doing fingertip drag drills. BTW I think your 2013 freestyle looks really nice. Thanks, arrieros! I need to make sure my arms enter in front of my shoulders, though. Windrath is right about that!

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:46:56 GMT

ElaineK - I will try to keep my reply short. Switch back to your 2013 stroke and you will save yourself a ton of discomfort. I have never used the term "scapular swimming" as it applies to stroke technique. I tell my swimmers two things: a) your elbow should never be behind your back and between your shoulder blades during the recovery (likes yours are in 2018 video) and b) your recovery should be as much in the frontal plane of your body as possible. Some people get away with it because of their specific body structure - others don't. If you are being told to do the "zipper" or "thumb drag" drill - stop doing it. Without very good coach assistance, it is one of the worst drills in the swimming books because, when the swimmer does not rotate properly, it leads to the elbow being behind your body. Even with close coach feedback, there are better drills to help with freestyle recovery. I also think the full catch-up drill is in this category as one of the worst drills out there. If I were your coach, I would suggest the following things: a) Make sure your thumb touches mid-way down your thigh an the end of each stroke. b) Make sure the recovery side hip is higher than the pulling side hip until your recovery arm is forward of your recovery shoulder c) To Do "B" correctly, you may need to let your pulling arm/hand be deeper in the water at the start of the pull. As I watch your video, your arms are entering the water outside your shoulder. This impedes rotation and puts lots of pressure on your shoulders. Hands should enter directly in front of your shoulder. I will try to get a video of some swimmers I like and post. PW Thank you VERY much for responding to my post. You were one of the coaches I was hoping would respond, because I have respected your advice and posts on the Forums. If I understand you correctly, you are saying I should swim with the same recovery I am using in the 2013 video; however, I need to bring my arms around more so that I enter the water with my arms in front of my shoulders-- more like where they enter in the 2018 video. Is this correct? Is there anything else wrong with my technique in that video that I should correct? I will make the switch on freestyle starting tomorrow! I already have a low arm recovery on fly and have no problems with fly, back, or ***; however, I really need to make a change with my freestyle. That last thing I want is another surgery... Thanks again, Paul!

RE: Scapular swimming

Windrath — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:24:03 GMT

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 04:04:02 GMT

Yes, this is a VERY old thread; however, I am bringing it back to ask if anybody has every been able to locate a video of PROPER Scapular Plane Swimming technique. I had my husband shoot a video of me back in 2013; however, I'm not sure this is correct: www.youtube.com/watch The reason I am bringing it up now, is because of the problem I have with my LEFT shoulder when I swim freestyle BREATHING RIGHT. It started when I developed bursitis from a land-based repetitive stress injury last year; however, it has continued since then. When my face is in the water, my left scapula doesn't seem to move/glide smoothly when I release my hand after the pull and bring my elbow up into a high elbow recovery. It seems to get "caught" a lot of the time, and my left arm has developed this robotic-looking recovery. If you compare my right and left arms on recovery in the video below, you can see the difference. Watch the left arm, especially on the second 25 when I swim towards the camera: www.youtube.com/watch SA1B&t=0s At this point, I will sacrifice speed to swim with a technique that will keep me in the pool for the rest of my life without needing shoulder surgery. I just want to make sure I am doing it properly. I had switched away from Scapular Plane Swimming when I was constantly being told I needed to swim with a high elbow, and my technique was incorrect. I don't know how my technique would be viewed in second video (with high elbow); however, I believe it is the INCORRECT technique for the health of my shoulders. I need to change back to Scapular Plane Swimming; however, I want to do it correctly. I sent an e-mail to OrthoSportsMed Physical Therapy (Kip Dye and Milton Nelms) who developed the technique, so I hope to receive a response. In the meantime, if any of you are familiar with this technique, could post a video, or offer suggestions; I would appreciate it very much. :agree: P.S. I do McKenzie Technique PT exercises and the Thrower's Ten Exercise Program regularly, in addition to other shoulder PT exercises as part of my daily dryland program.

RE: Scapular swimming

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:06:20 GMT

However, she is using an EVF that is not part of Scapular plane swimming. That torque and position can destabilize and create damage in the shoulder. This part does not make sense to me. EVF can and should be performed in the scapular plane. The initial EVF motion is internal rotation and partial adduction of the humerus in the scapula plane. If the humeral head is centered over the glenoid, the swimmer has a normal range of motion in internal rotation and the rotator cuff is strong and healthy, this motion is "SwimSafe." Weakness, laxity or limited range of motion may prevent safe EVF, but the technique should not be dimissed with a simple "That torque and position can destabilize and create damage in the shoulder." Any technique can damage an abnormal shoulder joint. RadSwim

RE: Scapular swimming

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:48:52 GMT

Picture of Pipes-Neilsen from GoSwimWeekly website: www.goswim.tv/.../sw...m_medium=email Is this scapular plane swimming or is she rotating her shoulders forward a little into her AC joints? Or is it the pure beauty of scapular plane swimming, with incredible control of flexing only the hands for exit/entry, thus avoiding shoulder stress? I would die for her fly. Also her free. Also her IM. Hi Isobel- I checked out some videos of her swimming on Go Swim- her recovery is in Scapular plane, which is great. However, she is using an EVF that is not part of Scapular plane swimming. That torque and position can destabilize and create damage in the shoulder.

RE: Scapular swimming

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:41:11 GMT

Now I have a question for you about fly: Traditional breathing or turning my head to the side to breathe? A previous neck injury (and resulting arthritis at C6) make breathing to the right on fly not possible, but, breathing to the left is quite comfortable; more so than straight ahead. Over the long haul, in workouts and in competition (as I add IM to my repertoire), which would be the safest to prevent injury? In response to your question about the fly breathing- Keep your head in neutral, spine aligned position as much as possible. You should only have to lift your head just a touch to get the air in. The key is in the wave motion of your body. Then your arms should come around and join with you head to drive your body forward. Breathing to the side is going to create neck problems in the long run. Good luck!

RE: Scapular swimming

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:44:45 GMT

Breathing to the side is going to create neck problems in the long run. Good luck! Thanks, SwimSafe! That's just what I needed to know! :agree:

RE: Scapular swimming

srcoyote — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:39:28 GMT

Thanks so much for sharing. I seemed to have accidentally happened on this swim style a couple of years ago. I was preparing for longer Open Water distances (5K at the time) and had read from someone how using core muscles helped with stamina. So I just started playing with my stroke on long swims to see what worked. I noticed that by keeping my shoulders and pull wider than my old stroke and by more trunk roll, I got more distance per stroke and less shoulder pain. What I also noticed is that I could swim much longer non-stop distances using this stroke. However, I am still as slow as an oil slick. Earlier this year I tried experimenting with EVF to see if I could speed up, but my shoulders started hurting so I've gone back to this scapular plane style of swimming. Alas, I'll probably need to add some sort of dry land training and include more anaerobic stuff to get faster.