Why is weight training necessary?

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:52:02 GMT

Chris, I like the TRX workout. We have one at our facility and it is a great piece of equipment that you can do alot with. I also use the Bosu ball. Below is a clip of an exercise that I use to strengthen the back of the core (low back, hamstrings, glutes, paraspinals) YouTube- Dryland Exercises for Swimmers - Streamline on the Bosu

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:01:10 GMT

I do have one, but haven't started up yet. Since Zones is close and I'm no vacation, I've punted establishing a routine until this fall. From what I've seen, some of the moving planks look extremely difficult. Once I watch the DVD, I'm going to take a closer look at Chris' routine. That's what I was thinking about doing as well. I have watched the dvd about proper set-up and adjustments. I have done some of the stretches too. I can really feel them, esp. the neck and back ones.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

RachaelM — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:51:41 GMT

I hadn't heard of a TRX until reading this thread. It looks interesting and challenging. I know none of the interior doors in my house would work for this as I've tried using a door mount for rubber cables before unsuccessfully. Scared to put a whole in my ceiling though. For those of you who have it, where/how are you mounting it? Any tips? Rachael

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

The Fortress — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:56:54 GMT

That's why I rely on my good looks. Speaking of weight training. I have just gotten my TRX. I know Chris has one and maybe Fort. Does anyone else have a TRX? If so, what are some of your favorite moves to do? I do have one, but haven't started up yet. Since Zones is close and I'm no vacation, I've punted establishing a routine until this fall. From what I've seen, some of the moving planks look extremely difficult. Once I watch the DVD, I'm going to take a closer look at Chris' routine.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:23:09 GMT

Jim, This same statement can be true for any sport that requires continuous repetitive motion, hmm, such as swimming? As with anything else, you have to learn to do it correctly, either thru self education and/or instruction from a qualified source. I'm not sure. Take running for example. I'm not sure that building a great deal of upper body strength (and more mass) will improve your running. Or cycling. Lance recently said before the Tour something to the effect of "I can't do a single push up or pull up because I need to lose upper body mass (= strength)". But other sports, say crew, probably yes.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

swimshark — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 02:38:38 GMT

Jim, This same statement can be true for any sport that requires continuous repetitive motion, hmm, such as swimming? As with anything else, you have to learn to do it correctly, either thru self education and/or instruction from a qualified source. Well, Wolfie, nice to see you again. How are you doing? ***Back to the regularly scheduled thread***

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:23:50 GMT

I know of at least one that is a rocket scientist. And some are right there along side him. :) Oh and they are super fast, too. Brains and speed.. amazing. That's why I rely on my good looks. Speaking of weight training. I have just gotten my TRX. I know Chris has one and maybe Fort. Does anyone else have a TRX? If so, what are some of your favorite moves to do?

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:48:51 GMT

My simplistic reply: because, all other things being equal, anything that makes you stronger will make you faster.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

jim thornton — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:59:18 GMT

OK, SwimShark, spill the beans. Who's the rocket scientist? I guess the brainiacs grew up to be USMS Forumites! :applaud: I am 99 percent certain that Jeffrey "Little Devil" Roddin is a rocket scientist. He is incredibly good at acceleration. He is not so good at finishing a 2-mile orbital challenge.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:56:01 GMT

Speaking of weight training. I have just gotten my TRX. I know Chris has one and maybe Fort. Does anyone else have a TRX? If so, what are some of your favorite moves to do? Well, I don't actually own one, but my gym has 4 TRX stations. My current workout is here: forums.usms.org/blog.php

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

swimshark — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:29:41 GMT

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:28:22 GMT

I know of at least one that is a rocket scientist. And some are right there along side him. :) Oh and they are super fast, too. Brains and speed.. amazing. OK, SwimShark, spill the beans. Who's the rocket scientist? I remember back in high school that the swim team and water polo team had the best students of all the athletes. Same goes for the other schools in our league, in Long Beach. Perhaps it was the same nationwide??? I guess the brainiacs grew up to be USMS Forumites! :applaud:

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

swimshark — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:20:30 GMT

That works for me! :applaud: Have you seen the posts on some of the other threads lately? :afraid: I'm a college graduate with a decent amount of intelligence, but sheeeeeeesh! Some of our Forumites must be rocket scientists or something similar. Trying to follow their scientific debates is waaaaay more complicated than I care to make swimming for me. :confused: I know of at least one that is a rocket scientist. And some are right there along side him. :) Oh and they are super fast, too. Brains and speed.. amazing.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:16:19 GMT

My simplistic reply: because, all other things being equal, anything that makes you stronger will make you faster. That works for me! :applaud: Have you seen the posts on some of the other threads lately? :afraid: I'm a college graduate with a decent amount of intelligence, but sheeeeeeesh! Some of our Forumites must be rocket scientists or something similar. Trying to follow their scientific debates is waaaaay more complicated than I care to make swimming for me. :confused:

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

swimshark — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:20:07 GMT

I don't know if anybody mentioned bodyweight exercises. Pushups, pullups, chinups, dips, squats, crunches and so on can easily be done at home and are just as effective as weights. That's what we do for dry land. It's just as intense as actual weights and it works well. I definitely feel more in shape and feel faster in the water when I'm able to get to my team's afternoon practices and doing dry land.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:51:33 GMT

I don't know if anybody mentioned bodyweight exercises. Pushups, pullups, chinups, dips, squats, crunches and so on can easily be done at home and are just as effective as weights.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:18:58 GMT

Ok, I think I found the study you're talking about, from 1997: physicaltherapyjournal.org/.../132 Yes? This is about leg movements that happen when people are standing. That's not "all movement", and it's not swimming.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:13:33 GMT

For example, the study done by Hodges, shows the transvers abdominus (core) is the first muscle to fire in all movement. What?

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:26:04 GMT

Grif, with all due respect, this idea that science is too contradictory and too behind the curve to do much good seems to me just a rationale used by anyone who wants to do his own thing and feel 100 percent righteous justification in so doing. We can use science to back up our methods but it is difficult to find a study that purely shows that ones methods work. For example, the study done by Hodges, shows the transvers abdominus (core) is the first muscle to fire in all movement. Since this muscle stabilizes the spine and is the first muscle to fire it is obviously important to train this muscle and the surrounding muscles to increase force production throughout the body. The results from this study backs up the strength training philosphy practiced by many, including myself, that strengthening and training the core to stabilize and rotate is extremely important in allowing one to express optimal amounts of strength. At the sametime, this study or any other study does not specifically show if this type of strength training has a direct impact on performance. Science gves us good information but not enough. If we wait on all the information to 100% validate our training then we will all be behind the curve.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

jim thornton — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:44:45 GMT

The potential problem with waiting for things like repeatable controlled experiments is being behind the curve. But I don't think scientists are nearly as out of date as Grif suggests. The problem with not waiting is that you run the risk of accepting unproven hype as gospel. As long as you realize what you are doing and maintain a healthy degree of skepticism, it isn't such a bad thing. I definitely try things on my own in an "uncontolled" manner and try to learn from the experience. A major problem with this approach, however, is that you can get too attached to what you "know" is true. When scientists repeatedly fail to prove the value of a particular training method or philosophy, it is too easy to dismiss this with statements like "those scientists are 20 years behind the times." It is a rare individual (especially coaches) who can honestly evaluate his/her own training philosophy and realize there may be some problems with it. In my opinion, there are far more people who perpetuate false training myths than there are people who are "behind the curve" because they await scientific proof, or at least serious systematic scrutiny. Chris Stevenson: Olympian in swimming; Olympian in persuasion. Your above synopsis is so perfectly stated and logically unassailable that I suspect Fox News will very soon be calling for your job at the University. This kind of clear-headed thinking is a threat to America as we have come to know it!

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:53:10 GMT

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:08:25 GMT

Your comment brings up a great point. If we waited for science to prove training methods we would be 20 years behind the curve. The bottom line is that for every research study that proves something we have another one that contradicts it. Well, in the case of weights, you won't find many contradictions. Science has been fairly consistent in questioning its direct benefits on endurance sports performance. As far as I am concerned, I explain this fact by the inability to design significant protocols. Science has, over time, missed the target in evaluating training means in general. Weights are worth giving a 'try and see'. Do not wait for science, make your own evidence, it ain't that difficult.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

jim thornton — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:44:22 GMT

If I abstained from drylands to await a perfectly well controlled study on the topic that passed the Jazz Hands & Jimby scrutiny, I'd be in a retirement home. Your comment brings up a great point. If we waited for science to prove training methods we would be 20 years behind the curve. The bottom line is that for every research study that proves something we have another one that contradicts it. So really, at the end of the day science proves very little and it proves it to late. All we can really do is train our athletes or ourselves off of our own experience and base our theories off the research that exists and the education we have. Grif, with all due respect, this idea that science is too contradictory and too behind the curve to do much good seems to me just a rationale used by anyone who wants to do his own thing and feel 100 percent righteous justification in so doing. Do not get me wrong--I definitely believe in doing ones own thing. But I also believe that the scientific method is as close as we can come to objectively proving what works best, if not for each individual, then at least for large numbers of individuals. Clearly, the answers to optimal swim training aren't all in yet, and I suspect that with anything as complex as this, there will be ongoing refinements and new insights for decades to come. But to just relegate those who are trying to make such discoveries as too little, too late fuddy duddies whose findings can be disregarded whenever they contradict any individual guy's personal experience, it seems to me, is the kind of Bush-era anti-science, anti-intellectual "gut reasoning" that sets back progress substantially.

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:55:15 GMT

RE: Why is weight training necessary?

Former Member — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:33:27 GMT

Does it make you Faster Faster? (Sorry, couldn't resist the Ande pun) :D Funny the testing I am doing at the moment. Let me briefly explain. I cut all speed work in the pool for summer time. That got my aerobic pace to drop significantly. I can usually hold 1:30 quite easily, but these days I am struggling holding 1:40. I am discovering that every time I spend little time in the gym doing dryland, the swim session that follows (my gym and my pool are in the same building), my aerobic pace is getting a boost. Either the same day or the day that follows. Does it make me faster faster, no. I do not think so. I think that fast sets remains the best way to swim faster faster. But I still find this link between weights and its impact on basic aerobic pace fascinating enough to continue on this scheme for a while.