YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Donna — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:59:13 GMT

This has become a daily thing for us this week and for no real reason, tonight was the only day that I would have said NO SWIMMING but Tuesday and Thursday were stupid young kids standing outside to hear a far off clap of thunder once and then no swim for 30 minutes while we stand around and do nothing for no real legitimate reason in an indoor pool. IF YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE TO HEAR ONE CLAP OF THUNDER IN THE DISTANCE it is not a threat. I had to send the kids who were members to the pool as lap swimmers this morning to swim on their own and thankfully they work well as a group. I have my 11 and 12 girls lead the team.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

jim thornton — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:30:44 GMT

Our program operates out 3 different YMCA's, 2 High Schools, and 2 Universities...They all have basically the same policy...This policy has been handed down by insurance carriers... The "Lightening Policy" for the pools reads something like this for indoor pools and outdoor pools "if the lifeguard see lightening bolts that appear to touch the ground or hear thunder then pool must cleared for 30 minutes" indoor and outdoor... Based on this facilities not wanting to accept possible liability have just made a facility policy...Thunder and Lighting..Clear the Pool...While we all think the ruling is out of line, you must understand we live in a very litigious society. Many of the pools in YMCA's are old and under today's standards are not grounded properly. Therefore the insurance companies have dictated the policy to the YMCA of the USA this is not necessarily a YMCA policy..In some cases to properly ground an old facilitiy maybe very cost productive, therefore it is easier and less expensive to clear the pool...I feel your pain.. Mel, from what I understand, it's not even a question of grounding. There has never, in the history of the universe, or at least the history of Earth, been a fatality (or even an injury!) from lightning in an indoor pool. What's more, even if you buy the Insurance Makes Us Close the Pool explanation, they should also dictate the showers be closed down, too. No Y does this because they don't want to send staff members down to the locker rooms to police shower behavior--and they don't want a bunch of angry members leaving the facility soaked in sweat. The policy makes no sense whatsoever. If someone is going to sue, they will sue because they got zapped in the shower! (But they won't get zapped in the shower, because such zapping DOES NOT HAPPEN, EVER!) Mel, you are the official USMS liaison to the YMCA, or at least you once were, correct? You have singlehandedly helped promote our sport of masters swimming more than just about anybody alive. You are a heroic figure and someone who will be taken seriously! Please, I beseech you, can you petition the YMCA National Board to examine their policy regarding indoor pool closures and lightning--maybe even ask them to strong arm the insurance companies to look at the actuarial risk and justify this absurd and anti-health policy? Perhaps another insurance company would sell Y's pool insurance without this ridiculous requirement to clear the pool when there is only the distant sound of thunder! As a little tiny lilliputian person in the world of swimming, I feel totally inept and impotent to do anything whatsover to affect a change here. But you are Mel Goldstein! You, Mel, can bring sense to administators and insurance actuaries. You can save swimming practices all across the fruited and besogged plane! Please have a word with somebody, and your legend will grow beyond all measure. Thanks. In all seriousness, so many, many, many swimmers would be grateful if you could do something. Just in our little neck of the woods, tonight's was the fourth practice in the last few weeks cancelled because of thunder. Help!

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Mel — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 07:37:27 GMT

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

jim thornton — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:51:52 GMT

I am wondering if our beloved directors and board members and various other high level USMS functionaries (and I use functionary here in the most complimentary possible sense, simply because I know of no synonym) might intercede on the behalf of side-lined masters and fitness swimmers everywhere, whose hope to get a decent workout in an indoor pool is routinely being stymied by superstition and faulty pseudo science. Perhaps a White Paper from USMS could be something that would help promote the organization's mission, i.e., promoting health and fitness through swimming. I say this now at 4:49 on a sultry late afternoon in the Pittsburgh area, the dew point 69 degrees F, the storm clouds already on the Ohio-PA state line, and the prospects for our swimming practice at 6:30 becoming progressively dimmer by the minute... Help, promoters of swimming! Rob Butcher, would you call the director of the Sewickley Valley Family YMCA and talk some sense into him?

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

KEWebb18 — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:21:20 GMT

I just spent 80 minutes watching 6 guards/instructors all sit around a pool deck chit chatting while swimmers and parents are wondering why we are not able to swim. We all heard the 1 clap of thunder off in the distance that forced them to close the pool for 30 minutes but then just as it was getting close to time to open the pool they conveniently hear another one that no one else heard. So there is another 30 minutes. NO STORM, NO RAIN my parents are disgusted with the situation. I guess I will need to bring it up to the director tomorrow. That's unfortunate. Most places have the director/manager make the call. I can imagine that some high school or college kids wouldn't mind having to sit around and not work.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Donna — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:10:55 GMT

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

debaru — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:15:58 GMT

Saw this today on Learn From My Fail (#LFMF). I'm assuming the poster is telling the truth: When swimming in a lake, do not ignore those thunder clouds in the distance. Lightning can strike miles away from the cloud that originated it. And even if it hits the nearby rocks and not the lake itself, it still feels like all your bones have been broken. #LFMF Submitted by: Rach via Submit Page :badday:

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

art_z — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 12:50:50 GMT

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

srcoyote — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:36:52 GMT

I may (or may not) have swum (currently swim?) in a Y (or Y-like) pool that apparently does not know (ignores?) this policy. I hesitate to reply because I don't want to ruin it for me. This pool also operates outside of a couple of other recommendations for operating a pool, but it works for me. Just don't ask me what shape the drains are. Back in high school (age group club), we trained in a University indoor pool that always closed for lightning which is frequent in Florida summers. However, at that point in my life, it was much more blessing than curse.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Former Member — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 05:11:53 GMT

there is always a downside to nonsense There is no downside to this policy, however misguided it may be at times. So they close the pool for 30 minutes. Total cost to them, basically zero (i.e., what a life gaurd gets paid to do nothing for 30 minutes) If through some freak accident something DOES happen, and people are in the water and get killed or injured, the resulting lawsuits/settlements will cost multiple millions of $. You do the math.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

srcoyote — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 05:03:14 GMT

While I was swimming (but maybe not) during the lightning storm at lunch today, I was musing on this subject again. I remember a regular meet I used to swim in FL in high school was at a large LC pool on an Air Force Base. As I mentioned, lightning in FL is common in the summer so we'd often have to stall the entire meet and wait out the 30 minutes, but there was no significantly sized building nearby. So we waited outside. . . on the pool deck. . . under the shade. . . in metal bleachers.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Redbird Alum — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 03:09:47 GMT

I swim in a non-Y, community center pool not affiliated with any national organization. The guards are Red-Cross trained. They close the pool and hot-tub in lightning storms. What cracks me up is they don't close any of the various locker room showers. They also do not close the sauna room which is situated on the pool deck, and wired into the pool's circuits. :badday:

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Muppet — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 02:35:32 GMT

I live and swim outdoors a couple miles from a pretty large Air Force weapons testing and training site. There are still times I (and any lifeguards) can't tell the difference between actual thunder and the AF just blowing stuff up again. I think that is a pretty awesome problem to have! Science in progress!!

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

aquageek — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:26:41 GMT

There is no downside to this policy, however misguided it may be at times. So they close the pool for 30 minutes. Total cost to them, basically zero (i.e., what a life gaurd gets paid to do nothing for 30 minutes) If through some freak accident something DOES happen, and people are in the water and get killed or injured, the resulting lawsuits/settlements will cost multiple millions of $. You do the math. Of course there is downside, in fact there is ONLY downside. For one, there has never ever been a single death from lightning, never ever. That alone is enough. Second, since there is absolutely no danger, all they are doing is disrupting their customers' workouts for no reason. In fact, this ludicrous constant closure for lightning caused me to quit the Y. I think it is highly more likely that some noodler will slip and fall scurrying off the deck during a lightning closure and break her hip. Slip and falls are a common cost for gyms, much more than a never-ever-in-recorded-human-history accident that you seem worried about. So, you do the math - zero $ for an event that will never occur versus the likelihood of a slip and fall suit.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Allen Stark — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:07:21 GMT

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:59:35 GMT

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Jim Clemmons — Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:58:53 GMT

TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! EVERYBODY OUT! Someone asked how long we needed to stay out. "Thirty minutes till there are no more rumbles of thunder," she said. It was 3:30. The Y closes at 4--"summer hours." James, The "rumbles" were probably coming from her stomach. She was just hungry and couldn't wait any longer. Next time bring your lifeguard a :cake: snack or move out west. We are rarely interrupted by the weather. 'Sides, we'd compliment each other well on a relay together. :chug:

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Wild William — Tue, 08 Jun 2010 04:46:39 GMT

Our local Y has amended the policy to give some discretion the matter. Generally, if the thunderstorm is severe or if cloud to ground lightning is blasting away the guards will close. However the occasional flashes do not necessarily close the pool. The guard once told me he wasn't sure of the policy and asked me if he should close the pool. I said there was no problem keeping it open (what else was I going to say; my workout was not done). I always thought it was curious that they close the pool but do not clear the showers. You would think that regardless of the water source if its a problem, its a problem. ww

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

SharksMasters — Tue, 08 Jun 2010 02:43:40 GMT

A lifeguard out our Y thought she heard thunder coming from a huge smoke cloud from a wrecked tanker truck on the highway. I told her it was smoke, but she still closed the pool for 30 minutes. Our big Y has the golf course lightning system, which measures the electrical charge in the atmosphere. Once it reaches a certain number, the pool closes. I've seen lightning bolts in the area and the Y stayed open with this system. I'm sure it's expensive, but worth it in my opinion.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 13:08:06 GMT

this policy is nonsense, as are most lightning/swimming policies. ever been pulled out of the water to wait out a passing storm sitting in an open boat? yeah.... thats safer. there is a greater chance of being struck by a lingering piece of skylab scrap metal than there is being struck by lightning in a pool..... indoors or outdoors.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Donna — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 08:29:23 GMT

I have the same problem at my Y. They are quick to close at a rumble of thunder off in the distance. The kids I coach don't like having to miss practice. That is why I have started encouraging those who are members to come swim in the morning on their own on days we are supposed to have storms. Then if we get kicked out the Y has to put up with us in the weight room. The aquatic center where I train stays open unless the storm is directly over head.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 07:52:44 GMT

I remember a local USA-S outdoor swim meet in progress when a t-storm arrived. It was iffy most of the day; but halfway through a heat of the 200 IM the front blew in. Winds were gusting over 60mph, it started pouring rain, lots of lightning and thunder. One of the fastest girls in the heat kept going after the other girls stopped. So an official stuck a big long metal pole in her lane to let her know the meet was stopped due to lightning... ?! The school pool in my area and our club's policy is to not swim during t-storms. However, the private health club I belong to doesn't care as long as we keep up on our payments.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

norascats — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 06:09:27 GMT

I think it's an insurance issue. It's also the state law. I just know it's always been that way where I have swum. It's not just a Y thing..

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

Muppet — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 01:38:14 GMT

From the National Lightning Safety Institute: Indoor Pool report More indoor pool YMCA Guidelines if your YMCA insists these are rules, feel free to get all Captain Jack Sparrow on them - the lightning code of action are more like guidelines, NOT rules, and the pdf specifically says that. if your pool/building is not grounded properly, i don't think the guidelines are a bad policy. personally, i get very nervous swimming during a thunderstorm, but moreso because when the UMD tornado came through campus Sept 2001, we all watched it come within 50m of the pool. in practice, i think people can afford to loosen up a bit. anyone can look at radar and figure out where the stormiest parts of a storm will pass. i think it mentioned it in one of these links, but lightning follows the path of least resistance, and while it is unpredictable, the likelihood of a bolt traveling several lateral miles away from its source - and with so many other juicy places to hit in between - has to be really slim. if the bad parts are coming right for you, sure, evacuate - but if you're on the outskirts of the meat of the storm, perhaps you can consider letting swimmers continue.

RE: YMCA pools, Thunderstorms, Out of Water exceptions?

waves101 — Sat, 05 Jun 2010 09:49:58 GMT

Our Y does not close when lightning is about. If its a good cloud to ground storm I may choose not to go but the pool is still open.