"Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

norascats — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:47:09 GMT

I suggest warming up with drills to reshape your stroke. Experiment with different arm shapes, relaxing the arms when you stroke, having your body roll drive your stroke. Alternate with kick drills where you can get that all out effort going. I saw a lot of good suggestions above. take what you can use and leave the rest. I would definitely look for another therapist.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Bobinator — Sat, 05 Jun 2010 08:06:34 GMT

Hi Isobel! What scapular strength exercises have you been doing? Are you using stretchy bands? I'm just curious and probably needing to do these type of exercises. I will say I have worked a lot on technique (body rotation, higher elbow, bi-lateral breathing) and it seems to have relieved shoulder twitches I was having. I have also started swimming 1/4th or so of my workouts backstroke. For some reason it just feels good after doing a lot of freestyle. Another comment....relax.......never put all your eggs in one basket! That is way too much stress to hang over something you claim to do because you love it. Easy, zen swimming can be purposeful for fitness, technique, and your psychological well-being. I personally think swimming till you blow your shoulder out is a bad idea. It is a negative approach and chances are after a surgery you will never be as sound as you were before. This is all "just my unprofessional opinion." I am not a swimming expert. Good luck! I hope you are able to swim and race till you are at least 95! :cane: :cane:

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:41:52 GMT

Until your shoulder problems get resolved you might be able to burn off some of your frustration/energy by really working on your kicking. Several elite swimmers developed killer kicking ability while they were recovering from shoulder injuries, and kicking can really provide a good workout. You already indicated you use fins and that can help take the load off your shoulders while still getting a rigorous workout and satisfying a need for speed. Certainly not a complete solution but it might help while you are looking for/working on a longer term solution. As others have said it would be very helpful to get your stroke analyzed to see if there are changes that you can make that would help your shoulders. I used to have chronic shoulder problems until I modified my stroke. Good luck!

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:24:54 GMT

I am recovering from a shoulder injury- luckily not that extreme. I am amazed at the help of pilates. I found a really good teacher that understands anatomy and injuries well. At the exercises work on those little muscles that you just don't exercise when lifting weights or swimming ( your shoulder stabilizers, individual hamstring muscles, each part of your glutes) I had gone to a couple of other studios, but really never understood what I was dong until I found this teacher. I don't know if it is her or maybe I was just ready to "get it" It is much more fun amd I get a lot more out of it than doing the regular rotator cuff exercises at home- though I am doing that too, just in case.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:47:23 GMT

I have a strong feeling that they still are putting their all into their workouts. They may be going slower, but the effort to do their fastest is still there. Which I love. The very best, Rich Abraham, is quite clear about this. When he swims fast, he swims very fast. But he doesn't do that all the time and he spends a lot more time going slow than fast. Not an accusation, but just want to encourage you to spend your energy swimming right, not fast. Expecially in light of your shoulder.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:25:35 GMT

"I was advised to find other sports or perhaps salsa dancing or perhaps gentle breaststroke." Ugh! That is not a satisfactory answer. It makes me want to slap whoever said that out of frustration. Keep looking until you find some medical professionals who understand your goals and are willing to work to keep you swimming be it with PT or surgery or whatever. I feel your pain as I am also out due to shoulder issues right now. Hope to be back in the water soon because as you have pointed out - not swimming is not an option. Good luck!

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 13:36:31 GMT

I would find another PT, one who is willing to work with you so that you can continue to swim. Stengthening the rotator cuff and performing exercises that stabilize the scapula do make a difference. You should of course modify your stroke to minimize impingement and exercise extreme caution if you decide to use paddles. Train every other day for now and increase the yardage gradually. Finally, I really advocate ice at bedtime. Shoulder issues are ubiquitous among Masters swimmers. Address the problem and keep swimming.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Allen Stark — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:41:51 GMT

I am 61 with"twitchy" shoulders and knees.3 years ago it took about 6 mo of PT to get my shoulder in swimming shape.During that time I did lots of kicking and some one arm swimming.I also did some easy range of motion swimming with both arms.I told my Dr and PT up front that I was a swimmer and that I would follow any and all recommendations as long as they did not include not swimming.Now in my warm up I start with very slow,range of motion swimming.I then massage my shoulders before any fast swimming.In the work out I do race pace work with recovery swims between(or during) sets.I do most of warm up and recovery swims with fins to further reduce shoulder strain.Fist swimming is another way to decrease shoulder strain and is a great drill anyway.Fist sprints can really help with arm speed.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

DPC — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:13:03 GMT

Wouldn't want to be Kirk's doctor. :) But I'd love to be Kirk's doctors dentist.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

jbs — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:57:34 GMT

In general, I agree with Kirk in principle, if not necessarily in practice. If I had a doctor or PT person say to me what yours seems to be saying to you, I'd have another doctor or PT the next day. I've had shoulder surgery and been through a fair amount of PT. I think that finding a good fit with the people treating you is VERY important. And a good fit for me would be someone who understands, "gets," and respects my goals. For instance, we have a group of orthopedic doctors up here who really understand why people want to compete throughout their lives--because a good number of the doctors compete themselves. From my perspective as a patient, it seems to me that this mindset also results in a change in approach to healing. Their goal is not just to get their patients pain free. It's to get them pain free AND as close to 100% as they can, so that the patient can go back to their activity as soon as possible. In other words, I get the impression that if they had a swimmer patient and they could only alleviate pain and discomfort by making the patient stop swimming, they would view that outcome as a type of failure on their part. In fact, when I had my shoulder surgery, the first thing the doc said to me in my first post-op visit was more or less "I know you are going to ask when you can start swimming again and I can't answer you yet--but we'll get you there as soon as we can." The only other thought I can give you is that it might be worthwhile to get someone who knows swimming and anatomy to take a long look at your stroke, just in case there is something obviously causing problems. I know it's hard! Good luck.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:54:16 GMT

Another thought...don't always attribute something like this to age. Shoulder pains and injuries, as pointed out, aren't always limited to adult athletes. Many age groupers come down with problems from repeated overuse of a quirky form. Sometimes all it takes is a palm out freestyle recovery and the shoulder can be impinged and tweaked beyond it's normal range of motion. Not sure if that has anything to do with your current situation, but doctors who don't swim or understand the mechanics of swimming can be slightly off base with their comments. Wouldn't want to be Kirk's doctor. :)

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Betsy — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:07:59 GMT

I think Gull is absolutely right - address the problem and keep swimming. I am a 68 year old female and swimming is my life. I do not have chronic shoulder problems, just a spell with bursitis from not doing my rotator cuff excercises. I believe the solution is to try to find doctors and PTs who will work with you to do what you want. It takes time on your part to educate them to who you are. If they don't get it, move on. (I realize that selecting doctors is dependent on where you live.) I have asthma and atrial fibrulation but am swimming better than ever, but it has not been easy. At 50 I swam my best Masters times at SC nationals. By July, I swam my worst times due to gastric reflux. I tried medication and then insisted on surgery to correct the problem. (My mother had suffered for years and I was determined not to do the same.) Then my "asthma like" symptoms became full blown asthma. It took awhile, but now it is almost a non-issue due to medication. I had problems on the last day in Atlanta, but it was partly my fault - I should not have stayed at the pool all day; I know I need to get away from the chemicals, but I didn't. My asthma doctor is a runner and understands that I practice and compete on a high level. I have had 2 ablations for atrial fib, and for the last few years have been fine. My cardiologist has finally accpeted my lifestyle and listens to me. I am very fortunate. He laughed when I showed him an article about Ralph Davis who is swimming with a heart transplant. I told him that was the type of people I hung around with. If the surgeon can repair the tear, don't discount surgery. But exhaust all other possibilities first. Keep trying and as others have said: Listen to your body. Don't ignore the pain.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

smontanaro — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:04:01 GMT

I agree. I've been seeing Brian Cunningham at Lutheran General in Park Ridge, IL. Not only is he a PT but he's also heavily involved with swimming, so he's able to help me with my stroke as well as provide exercises to help strengthen my rotator cuff. Skip

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 07:18:51 GMT

I'll throw in a counterpoint. I decided to start emphasizing bicycling and relegate swimming to a secondary activity. My thoughts are to swim more at maintenance levels and maintain shoulder health without subjecting it to overuse in middle age. When I go to the pool, I swim hard but it's only a few times a month, not 5 times a week. This also means I'm less frustrated when the pool is closed, practice canceled as I have another venue for stress relief. Prior knee trauma/reconstruction means I am very limited in what activities I can do. Walking is not recommended. My orthopedist likes swimming and cycling best. However, I do have a rebuilt shoulder and while it's healthy now, I think it is more prone to wear-and-tear problems. Most probably cycling will not be a lifetime sport for me. When I can't have fun doing it (when I age up from middle-aged to elderly) I still plan to enjoy swimming the rest of my years. So I am "saving my shoulders" while I am still young enough to have alternative exercise forms that I enjoy. This is more of a fitness mindset and probably won't cut it for those of you who are in it to achieve competitive success in the pool.

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

Former Member — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 05:03:30 GMT

I have no doubt you can achieve whatever you want....if you listen to your body. Personally, I don't believe pushing hard toward surgery is the best approach. I'm 59 and average 15,000 yrds a week. When I transitioned to a more EVF stroke earlier this year, I had to take a few days off when my shoulders objected. When I feel strong, I push. When I'm tired, or it hurts, I slow down or stop. I'm looking forward to competition. My 14 year old grandson has been out a few days nursing a sore shoulder, as well as another on his swim team. We're not alone! I think there is developing a new opening for elder sports medicine physicians. :cane: Regards, Georgio

RE: "Slowing down my training": Slight need to rant

knelson — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:05:28 GMT

When doctors say "just don't do that anymore" to something a patient is passionate about (OK, unless it's smoking or drinking!) I think they deserve to get punched in the face. What a cop out. Not constructive at all and just lazy doctoring.