solution for the overtrained legs?

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

chowmi — Thu, 27 May 2010 12:08:47 GMT

Thanks everyone. I made an appt for Mon June 7th in WC. The initial cost is $150 for an hour and $75/30 min after that. She said that I would know w/in the first two visits if it was helping. I had worn paddles for much of this too. During the last week my left shoulder started to get a little twinge in it, so I stopped with the paddles for 4-5 days. Now I'm able to use paddles again. I'm usually very good listening to my body (like with the paddles), I really had no idea how much damage was being done to my legs. Live and learn. And thanks again. :bliss: Ahelee- Working full time, raising 4 kids and a husband, leaves very little time. Fins and paddles were the only way to get it done. I probably swam 100k, pulled 100k, and used fins and paddles for 100k- total was 313,500. Yep, needed some gear. HEY!!! 4 kids, you are awesome! Only 3 cuties in your pix! Ages, please! Congrats on all that you do!!

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Thu, 27 May 2010 11:59:51 GMT

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimmerb212 — Thu, 27 May 2010 08:14:07 GMT

Uh, ditch the heels! Very bad for legs! Heels alone will cramp those legs up! Fashion be danged! Flat shoes are in and cool! Heels not good for legs ever. Actually, my podiatrist recommended heels for my tight calves, and it worked pretty well. I don't mean 3" stilettos, but shoes with a lift. The key was to not change from heels to flats or slippers when getting home, because the transition was too drastic. I got myself a pair of comfy wedges with cushioning that I wear at home. Sometimes I do putter around barefoot, but after doing some towel stretches for my calves, and it has really helped. When I remember to do it, anyway. The other days are tight-calf central.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimshark — Thu, 27 May 2010 08:04:18 GMT

Alison, is it more stretching or massage? Or both? Do they stretch me? I'm guessing so. Oooh, I'll get the Dara Torres treatment :applaud: Michelle- Our laptop died at home so I haven't been able to upload new pix or videos for a long time. You can see some old ones on FB if you friend me :agree: Patrick, Jr is 10, Brenna, 7, Carrick, 6, and Finnian 2. They were real troopers going to the gym's daycare while I did fantastic amounts of garbage yards :D It's hard to describe. You will be moving your muscles as they are doing a tissue massage. So it's not relaxing. The hamstring one is the worst for me. I have such tight hamstrings! Mine works my shoulders, neck, delts, pecs, thighs, shins and then anything else I ask for.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimshark — Thu, 27 May 2010 07:44:34 GMT

= I need to see how much money we have currently, but I did find an ART person in Walnut Creek who has already gotten back to me. Some times the place I go to charges this on my insurance and so I pay the co-payment but it goes against my PT allowed per year. Other times, I pay $25 out of pocket per a team agreement. Hopefully you can find an equal agreement with the doc you find.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Thu, 27 May 2010 02:51:19 GMT

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimshark — Thu, 27 May 2010 01:38:38 GMT

Thanks everyone. I made an appt for Mon June 7th in WC. The initial cost is $150 for an hour and $75/30 min after that. She said that I would know w/in the first two visits if it was helping. I had worn paddles for much of this too. During the last week my left shoulder started to get a little twinge in it, so I stopped with the paddles for 4-5 days. Now I'm able to use paddles again. I'm usually very good listening to my body (like with the paddles), I really had no idea how much damage was being done to my legs. Live and learn. And thanks again. :bliss: Ahelee- Working full time, raising 4 kids and a husband, leaves very little time. Fins and paddles were the only way to get it done. I probably swam 100k, pulled 100k, and used fins and paddles for 100k- total was 313,500. Yep, needed some gear. Karen, mine only takes about 20 min for a standard stretching. If I have a twinge and they need to work on something more, then it will go a bit longer. Hope that helps with your preparation. Oh, and you need to update your picture to include the latest addition.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Wed, 26 May 2010 16:34:04 GMT

fmracing- good ideas. We don't do a lot of kick sets, in fact not much at all. I never wear fins. In March I only had so much time to do so many yards. I had to do all of my 100s at 1:10-1:12 pace. The only way that was happening was with fins, and fins with paddles. So I basically went from no fins to fin-crazed, and upped my yardage by about 10K/day. In retrospect, not too bright. In the future, not doing this again! If I'm reading your response correctly... I guess I question the "must do XXX amount of yards on XXX interval in XXX amount of days." idea. There's nothing wrong with throwing hard sets out there, but your description makes it sound like a requirement with a time limit that was set too difficult. If the only way you were making practices was with fins and paddles that's probably not good either. Those are usable tools in certain situations but not all the time. If I'm giving practices, and someone consistently can't keep up without them, the distance should be reduced or the time interval lengthened to compensate for that individual. In the example mentioned, if I saw you needed fins/paddles to even make the 1:10-1:12 interval over a course of a practice (especially 10k yards a day!), I'd have suggested perhaps that you do some kind of alternating 75's / 100's or 2x75/1x100 on the same interval if keeping intensity intervals was the important part of the workout. Unrealistic paces just to get yardage in encourages garbage swimming imo. People will thrash, drop technique, and injure themselves in whatever way they can just to make an interval. It's not only arguable that it is counterproductive, but I think perhaps proven in your case. Ditch the fins and drop the pace for a while til the legs feel better. You won't lose ground. I'm also a believer in the "Quality not quantity" philosophy when it comes to yardage.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Wed, 26 May 2010 10:54:15 GMT

REST It stands for taking a break :) The other suggestions are great for dealing with any problems created by your craziness, but the actual healing is going to take time.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Wed, 26 May 2010 07:38:30 GMT

Karen was going for a monthly yardage record for her team, so it wasn't her normal training regimen. Well, there's your problem right there...

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Wed, 26 May 2010 07:34:14 GMT

Make no mistake, I am never doing this again. This was a "let's see if I can do it" type of thing and now I have, so I'm done. :D I completely underestimated the toll it would take on my legs. Arms are fine, legs not so much! I bet a lot of pull sets would help too just to ease off the work on the legs, but don't end up injuring the shoulders pulling to much either. On the upside though, i bet once they fully recover they'll be legs of steel! That yardage is insane btw :) I never even did close to 19k in one day in college. Ugh. I think the most I ever hit was 15k in two practices.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Wed, 26 May 2010 07:13:23 GMT

Karen was going for a monthly yardage record for her team, so it wasn't her normal training regimen. Ah I suppose I missed that part completely in the first post, my bad. I suppose the yardage per a time makes sense then. That being the case anyway, disregard the editing of the workouts but the solution should remain unchanged.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Wed, 26 May 2010 04:46:00 GMT

Finding it hard to believe Karen that Creekers allow FINz to be used to break WCM team records! Sheez... I knew about the yardage but not the FINz! But ART is great advice - close to magical. With all the Ironman triathletes in your area, bound to be a few good ART Docs in town. Mine was always Dr. Farrell in Santa Barbara.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Wed, 26 May 2010 03:26:11 GMT

Kirk is right. This was all totally self-inflicted upon myself. My sets consisted of 1000s. Usually, 1000 s/ 1000k/ 1000p/ 4x500-4x400-4x300-4x200-4x100s, and all with fins. It was all horribly unimaginative and excruciatingly boring. I didn't complain too much to my hubby, but when he'd always ask how it went I'd say, "It's just SO boring." I did continue to do our WCM workouts once/day, so that was no fins, business as usual. Working full time and not wanting anything to suffer at home, I had very limited time (2-4 hours depending). My last day I was so far behind I swam 4 times, totalling 19,150y. Make no mistake, I am never doing this again. This was a "let's see if I can do it" type of thing and now I have, so I'm done. :D I completely underestimated the toll it would take on my legs. Arms are fine, legs not so much! I need to see how much money we have currently, but I did find an ART person in Walnut Creek who has already gotten back to me.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

isobel — Wed, 26 May 2010 01:35:47 GMT

My legs are continuously tight. I wear heels to work and my quads are even sore with those. Uh, ditch the heels! Very bad for legs! Heels alone will cramp those legs up! Fashion be danged! Flat shoes are in and cool! Heels not good for legs ever. They are good for men to look at legs. Not that I am that militant, really. I wish I could wear heels but they screw up my posture big time. I like the look of heels. But I can't wear them. So I would say, along with resting those legs, buy some very fashionable chic flat shoes. You don't have to be earthy/crunchy. There are some very cool flat shoes out there. Also, should you need to run away from anyone at your job or to/from your job, you can if you are wearing flat shoes. Again, I actually wish I could wear heels because they do look great and I have good legs if I say so myself, but they are very bad for legs and back and overall body position. There. Soapbox over. I should be :bed: I need to drink fewer diet Cokes but dang it was hot today in Boston. What the heck is it with this here wethah?

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

knelson — Wed, 26 May 2010 01:18:07 GMT

Karen was going for a monthly yardage record for her team, so it wasn't her normal training regimen.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:00:35 GMT

ART (Active release therapy) saved my swimming!!! I over-trained in January. My delt and pec-shoulder area was so screwed up because of scar tissue (My freestyle is screwy). I could not swim for three months because of the pain and tightness. I went to Dr Vince Disaia in Lake Forest Ca. What he did in three treatments was almost miraclous. I would Highly recommend it!!! Don't be fooled by the words "massage" used to describe the treatment, it needs to be slightly sadistic to tear up the scar tissue, hence the word "release." If you google ART, you'll find lots of swim teams use it regularly. Good Luck!!! If your in the socal area: P: (949)916-9742 www.ChiropracticRedefined.com drdisaia@gmail.com

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Tue, 25 May 2010 07:40:37 GMT

Logically I guess one might suggest that you undertrain them for a bit til they aren't so tired :cane: ;) If it was me with overtired legs, I'd back off the kick sets for a week and see if it helps regain some strength back. Then ease back into kicking and lay off the fins for a while. :confused: It's not like you're going to lose much in a week when they're already overdone.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:15:43 GMT

How did you know your legs were overtrained?

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Former Member — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:12:08 GMT

You need a good sticking... :angel:

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Tue, 25 May 2010 04:13:56 GMT

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimshark — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:50:37 GMT

Oh come on. Throw that out there (ART) and don't elaborate? You know I'm picturing myself on the floor coloring! LOL! ART - Active Release Technique http://www.activerelease.com/ It's stretching with a massage. I highly recommend it. I get it done about once every 2 weeks. We have a chiro here who is certified in ART and has an agreement through our team to do it. It's been great for my swimming. I get it done the day before every meet and it's helped a lot.

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:33:59 GMT

Oh come on. Throw that out there (ART) and don't elaborate? You know I'm picturing myself on the floor coloring!

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

swimshark — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:20:54 GMT

How much stretching do you do? Pre-workout and post-workout? Have you tried ART stretching?

RE: solution for the overtrained legs?

Karen Duggan — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:14:08 GMT

I know I'm overtrained b/c I swam A LOT- about 2/3 of it was with fins. My legs are continuously tight. I wear heels to work and my quads are even sore with those. My legs never die in a 200, and at Pac Champs I was dead at the 50, at Nats at the 100. I only got 2 massages in March and a couple in April, probably should have done more. To be honest they weren't sore in March. But in April I really felt it. Still do. Maybe I should consult a trainer with a swimming background?