Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Rich Abrahams — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:56:54 GMT

Rich, It was difficult to compare your stroke with the other guys since you were so far ahead, but I noticed you have a shortened stroke. Could you please elaborate on how you stroking technique has evolved during time ? Really? I honestly try to keep my stoke as long as possible. I'll have to look at the video again.

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Former Member — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:59:28 GMT

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

no200fly — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 06:36:42 GMT

My championship prep phase of training was pretty typical with one major exception. In January, a bunch of masters swimmers were tested at Mike Mann’s Swim Labs by the head of the University of Colorado’s performance physiology program. Our first test was to swim 4 minutes very easy and then progressively increase resistance/effort. While the accuracy of the resistance in the flume was a total guess, the most revealing result for me was that when I thought I was going very easy, I was going too hard (based on blood lactate and HR). This from the guy (me) who preaches that when masters swimmers swim slowly, they swim too fast. Perceived effort can be very misleading. Anyway, he convinced me that at least one day a week I had to go very easy and preferably non-stop. For me that was keeping my HR below 120 for around 30 minutes total swim time. His proposition was that while it would not directly improve my racing conditioning, it would enhance my lactate workouts, enabling me to work harder and recover better (I won’t get into the scientific explanation he gave). Well, it seemed to work. My lactate workouts were not as devastating physically and I was able to do higher quality work at a lower cost. It may be coincidental, but I could recover from my races at nationals better than previously, and my best effort was my 10th swim at the end of the third day. However, actual sprint times in practice leading up to nationals were not better than in previous years. Rich If you have not seen it, there is an interesting power point presentation by Genadijus Sololovas on lactate clearance at www.nisd.net/.../UnderstandingLactateClearance.ppt . You will see that his tests suggest that sprinters should warm down at 50-55% max velocity for 25 - 30 minutes after a race. How does that fit in with Mann's suggestions?

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

ande — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 03:13:37 GMT

Hey Rich, I train with more focus and have more developed goals in the years that I age up. ... a great venue/facility definitely increases focus I agree with both. didn't know you went through a period "hard core mountain biking" Do you still mountain bike, if not why'd you stop? I think you do a great job with anaerobic conditioning. Many swimmers don't get how important this is or how to really do it right. You've been under the knife several times, how did you bounce back & rebuild your conditioning? "I find it very difficult to fully prepare physically and psychologically for SCY, LCM and SCM in the same year. Actually, I’ve never done it successfully but I’m going to try this year" I bet you'll do it great just take it one season at a time Rich I didn't see many mistakes in your Atlanta races. I knew I had the anaerobic conditioning to be aggressive on my first 50 in my 100 free. 100's are tricky you have to balance speed with effort and leave something for the 2nd 50. Have you ever tried a 100 where you split the first & 2nd 50's within 1.5 to 2.0 of each other? The only real surprise was my 50 back leading off a medley relay. ended up going a pr and new national record (27.74). hey rich congrats on your 50 bk, I totally missed watching that swim in all the mayhem. how many SDKs did you do on each length? that's interesting, "when I thought I was going very easy, I was going too hard (based on blood lactate and HR). This from the guy (me) who preaches that when masters swimmers swim slowly, they swim too fast. Perceived effort can be very misleading. Anyway, he convinced me that at least one day a week I had to go very easy and preferably non-stop. For me that was keeping my HR below 120 for around 30 minutes total swim time." That's surprising that your best effort was your 10th swim at the end of the third day. I was pretty done by that point How do you stretch your mid back? I think swimmers who have loose shoulders might have an advantage over tighter swimmers. Phelps seems to have very flexible shoulders. Re your question about predicting 20 years into the future when I was 45, I’m pretty sure I’d have been very skeptical about only going only .23 slower in the 50. During that period the things that really helped staying fast were better technique, smarter training, more consistent training, the new suits and having much younger training partners, especially for drylands. Oh, and a new supportive wife! Huge difference. All big factors, should I write a SFF tip about how to get one. My prediction for the impact of not having the long suits overall is that masters will be impacted way more than young swimmers, and the impact will be greater the older you are. We’ll have some answers soon. I'd agree with that, we will soon see What LCM meets are on your schedule? Got any SCM meets on your schedule too? do you ever test any of your strength bench marks? like # of pull ups or test your vertical jump? I'd be curious to see where you are. Do ever test your 25 & 50 kicking speed in practice? like flutter kicking with a board & SDK with out a board

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Karl_S — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:59:20 GMT

Ande, To answer your questions:... I am sure that I am not alone in wanting to thank Rich and Ande for this very informative exchange. Many thanks!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Rich Abrahams — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:29:35 GMT

Rich Here's a few questions for you when I look at the history of your top 10 times over time USMS Top Ten Swims by Richard T Abrahams It appears to me that in a few cases you have years that you tend to emphasize more than others. Particularly just before & just after aging up. I'd love to hear your comments. Did your times from Nats surprise you or did you pretty much expect to be in those ranges? Were your spring 2010 workout times indicating you were on the verge of a breakthrough for Nats? If I asked you when you were 45 yrs old if you thought there was any chance you could go 22.10 in the 50 fr 20 years later as a 65 year old? What would you have said? What do you need to do to go faster? What difference do you think a full blue seventy provides over a jammer for you? Ande Ande, To answer your questions: Like a lot of others, I train with more focus and have more developed goals in the years that I age up. Any other pattern is coincidental. However, a great venue/facility definitely increases focus and also whether or not my training partners are also going to nationals, worlds, etc. Sometimes it’s related to my health, work or family situation (sounds familiar?). From the time I was 49-52 I had serious shoulder problems that even an operation didn’t resolve. During that time I became devoted to hard core mountain biking and I feel it really helped my overall strength and aerobic/anaerobic conditioning. When I came back at age 53 (1998) I had a great year both short course and long course. Since then I’ve had shoulder operations in Feb. 2001 (right) and Sept. 2005(left) that were successful. I also had a minor knee operation in Sept. 2006. I find it very difficult to fully prepare physically and psychologically for SCY, LCM and SCM in the same year. Actually, I’ve never done it successfully but I’m going to try this year Re my times in Atlanta: they were within what I knew I could do if I didn’t make too many mistakes. When I went a 22.3 in Austin in 2008 I had a mediocre start, a horrible breakout (way too deep on my first stroke), and had a glide finish. In Atlanta I made fewer mistakes; almost all my starts were good, I could feel the acceleration on the entry, had good breakouts and decent turns. I knew I had the anaerobic conditioning to be aggressive on my first 50 in my 100 free. The only real surprise was my 50 back leading off a medley relay. I’ve only swum this event twice at nationals (1993 and 2002) and rarely swim it in competition, maybe 5 or 6 times in the last 20 years. But my underwaters have been improving so I switched from fly on the relay to back and ended up going a pr and new national record (27.74). My championship prep phase of training was pretty typical with one major exception. In January, a bunch of masters swimmers were tested at Mike Mann’s Swim Labs by the head of the University of Colorado’s performance physiology program. Our first test was to swim 4 minutes very easy and then progressively increase resistance/effort. While the accuracy of the resistance in the flume was a total guess, the most revealing result for me was that when I thought I was going very easy, I was going too hard (based on blood lactate and HR). This from the guy (me) who preaches that when masters swimmers swim slowly, they swim too fast. Perceived effort can be very misleading. Anyway, he convinced me that at least one day a week I had to go very easy and preferably non-stop. For me that was keeping my HR below 120 for around 30 minutes total swim time. His proposition was that while it would not directly improve my racing conditioning, it would enhance my lactate workouts, enabling me to work harder and recover better (I won’t get into the scientific explanation he gave). Well, it seemed to work. My lactate workouts were not as devastating physically and I was able to do higher quality work at a lower cost. It may be coincidental, but I could recover from my races at nationals better than previously, and my best effort was my 10th swim at the end of the third day. However, actual sprint times in practice leading up to nationals were not better than in previous years. Being recently retired, I was able to devote more time prior to nationals to stretching, especially mid back where I’m especially tight and to opening up my chest. Re your question about predicting 20 years into the future when I was 45, I’m pretty sure I’d have been very skeptical about only going only .23 slower in the 50. During that period the things that really helped staying fast were better technique, smarter training, more consistent training, the new suits and having much younger training partners, especially for drylands. Oh, and a new supportive wife! Huge difference. My prediction for the impact of not having the long suits overall is that masters will be impacted way more than young swimmers, and the impact will be greater the older you are. This is based mostly on how much more loose skin you have as you age. Hell, I’m pretty lean but when I straighten my arms the excess skin at my elbows could supply enough material to make a wallet. Also, your skin becomes rougher. You’re like a ship’s hull covered in barnacles. Not a pretty sight. We’ll have some answers soon. Rich

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

ande — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:25:57 GMT

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

ande — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:41:55 GMT

Thank you Ahelee, I am pretty sure both are already in Everybody wants to be Rich. Anyone who hopes to replicate Rich's ability needs to find out how he's been training then train that way for years. He reveals a little in this post: Alan, I did have a plan that I credit Eric Hochstein for inspiring in late 2008. I've always centered my training around racing (like you) but Eric inspired me to have a goal of a minimum of 15,000 meters of race effort swimming between Jan. 2009 and nationals in May 2010. Now this is not hard swimming, but true race pace and it's much harder than it sounds. Actual competitions were included in the yardage, but it also included lots of all out broken 100's. An example is 4 X broken 100 on the 10 minutes. You start with a 50 off the blocks @ all out race pace. On the :45 go an all out 25 (the watch starts when your head goes under) and then on the :30 go an all out 25 kick. I would alternate fly and free 100's. I did meet my goal and had a total of 17,000 meters of what I call "race effort" swims during that period. Working on pure speed is much easier. An example is 10-15 50's on 2:00 in groups of 5. Number 1, do a breakout and 6 all out strokes. Number 2, the same with 7 strokes. and progress so that number 5 is 10 strokes. Then repeat 2 more times. This really stimulates the nervous system and there is lots of technique to work on like keeping your face totally relaxed during numerous all out efforts. Regarding the interview, my only real disappointment was not being given an opportunity to discuss the many positive aspects of masters swimming to a wider audience of swimmers. Rich From: Rich's post May 31st, 2010 Rich Abrahams in person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rich Abrahams on Swimming World Morning show... USMS Swimmer Info Richard T Abrahams USMS Top Ten Swims by Richard T Abrahams USMS National Records YouTube- Rich Abrahams 65 years old 50 freestyle Atlanta 2010 YouTube- Rich Abrahams 65 years old 100 freestyle Atlanta 2010 Ande - Ask Rich if you can put these tips in your book. Golden. The two of you are pure swim fast Sages. What a boon to have watched you both swim, swim along side and take in your advice all at the same time. These are GOOD DAYS for masters swimmers!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Former Member — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:36:24 GMT

I love this information...I have been trying to relay this type of training to my old team but they refuse to believe fast and race pace training works...they'll continue the old school training methods of swimming as many yards as possible with as little rest as possible... Thank you Rich!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Thu, 27 May 2010 12:43:37 GMT

In my conversations with Rich at meets, some of my favorite things he's ever told me about training are: "In practice Swimmers go too fast when they should be going slow and Swimmers go too slow when they should be going fast." "I don't don't taper or rest for my big meet each season, I prepare for Championship Performance, which I call Championship Performance Prep or CPP." "Resting your nervous system for big meets might be just as important as resting your body." ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Rich also does a remarkable dryland program. He is lean, fit and strong. Ande Ande - Ask Rich if you can put these tips in your book. Golden. The two of you are pure swim fast Sages. What a boon to have watched you both swim, swim along side and take in your advice all at the same time. These are GOOD DAYS for masters swimmers!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

ande — Thu, 27 May 2010 10:43:50 GMT

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Karl_S — Wed, 26 May 2010 03:58:21 GMT

I'll buy a fan club t-shirt! His times speak for themselves,... That would be a great T-shirt. I can see it, taking from Ande's post below: On the Front "Everyone wants to be Rich" On the back: his times over the past 50 years.

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

no200fly — Wed, 26 May 2010 03:40:49 GMT

Everybody Wants to Be Rich here's the history of Rich's 50 free times over the years Lifetime best 21.4 (hand held, 1965 NCAA's 2d place) 30-34 22.21 age 31 35-39 22.17 age 35 40-44 22.14 age 40 45-49 21.78 age 48 50-54 21.73 age 53 55-59 21.82 age 55 60-64 22.30 age 60 65-69 22.10 age 65 2010 his 22.10 50 is magnificent and remarkable. It's the result of who he is and how he trains. He get's it and does what it takes to be remarkable. One man's miracle is another man's engineering I really wonder what he will be doing 20 years from now. Can you imagine Rich at 85 going 23.0? Could be.

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Former Member — Tue, 25 May 2010 14:14:07 GMT

I was wondering during the meet if some of the young kids there were watching the times posted by these older age-group masters. You better believe it! :bow: I'm 38 and split 22.2 on the relays and 49.90 in my 100 Free. He was unreal!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Jeff Commings — Tue, 25 May 2010 12:41:04 GMT

Hi, everyone. It was a no-brainer to make Rich our performance of the week. I saw Rich swim at one of my first Masters meets, in 2000, and I was astounded. We're going to interview Rich this week and make him a full-on feature in an upcoming episode of "The Morning Swim Show."

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

SwimDogs — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:48:19 GMT

The Morning Swim Show photo has now been updated to show Rich at one his "home pools", the Utah Pool, in Aurora, CO.

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

SwimDogs — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:16:32 GMT

Rich's 50 Free was named the "Performance of the Week" on today's Morning Swim Show: www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../24218.asp The first part of the video discusses Gangloff's experience in Atlanta. Unfortunately, the picture at the end is not of Rich. On a related note, until Sheri recently moved to Seattle, the two (Rich and Sheri) were training partners.

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

chowmi — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:07:15 GMT

I have known Rich for many years and, in my opinion, his performances in Atlanta were definately the over-all highlight of the meet. He puts alot of pressure on himself, but, also there is a lot of high expectations from his peer group to deal with. He was ready!!! Totally focused and one great swim just piled on to the next. I wonder is Cullen Jones can go 22.1 in the year 2050 or Rowdy 15 years from now!!!! I salute you my friend, Bob Strand I'll buy a fan club t-shirt! His times speak for themselves, but let me also say he is a wonderful person - so well rounded, positive, and an inspiration! I highly encourage everyone to go back thru the threads to re-read his tips! And for other greats - Sheri Hart's swims were crowd pleasers for sure!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

__steve__ — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:38:50 GMT

Just read a short biography of him and for the 50 fr his time has been close to the same, being within several tenths of a second for 47 years!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

ande — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:31:43 GMT

Everybody Wants to Be Rich history of Rich Abraham's 50 freeTimes over Time: Lifetime best 50 was 21.4 (hand held timing, 1965 NCAA's 2nd place) 30-34 22.21 age 31 in 1976 35-39 22.17 age 35 in 1980 40-44 22.14 age 43 in 1988 45-49 21.87 age 45 in 1990 21.78 age 48 in 1993 50-54 21.73 age 53 in 1998 55-59 21.82 age 55 in 04-30-00 60-64 22.30 age 60 in 05-22-05 65-69 22.10 age 65 in May 2010 his 22.10 50 is magnificent and remarkable. It's the result of who he is and how he trains. He get's it and does what it takes to be remarkable. "One man's miracle is another man's engineering." ~ Robert Heinlein USMS Top Ten Swims by Richard T Abrahams (146)

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

knelson — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:16:45 GMT

Totally impressed with Charlotte Davis 60-64 as well. Had never seen her swim before and I don't know her... But she put a proud smile on my face every time she touched the wall! Check out her interview starting around the 3:40 mark and you'll be even more impressed with what she did this year. YouTube- USMS Spring Nationals Sunday Recap

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

pwolf66 — Tue, 25 May 2010 09:59:37 GMT

Bob, I have to agree. Not to discount the MANY other awesome swims, Rich's performance was truely amazing. I'm not sure but I think he was 6 for 6 on NR's? 5 in individual events and then he broke the NR in the 50 back leading off a medley relay. Truely amazing swimming and he's is an incredibly nice person. Salute!!!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Robert Strand — Tue, 25 May 2010 09:52:33 GMT

Ahelee- you are right on!!! there were many outstanding performances and, tech suits or not, the records will just keep falling!!!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Tue, 25 May 2010 09:48:01 GMT

Yes - Cheers! Rich WAS unbelievable! I was wondering during the meet if some of the young kids there were watching the times posted by these older age-group masters. I did see some head shaking. But this early in the game, I don't think most even imagine themselves still swimming then. It takes awhile for that idea to come around for most early 20 something swimmers. Totally impressed with Charlotte Davis 60-64 as well. Had never seen her swim before and I don't know her... But she put a proud smile on my face every time she touched the wall!

RE: Rich Abrahams- Atlanta

Glenn — Tue, 25 May 2010 09:14:58 GMT

Thanks for starting this thread Bob! Besides being an incredible swimmer, Rich is also a very nice person!! The roar of the crowd when he touched the wall in the 100 at 49.42 and again in the 50 in 22.1 was VERY, VERY LOUD!!! I was so pleased for him. He works very hard and deserves all of the accolades.:applaud: