How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Celestial — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 05:35:44 GMT

Jim, an interesting corollary to your comment - I have a friend who is also an identical twin, like yourself. However, their lives are very different. My friend, Ann, is happily married with 6 children, stay at home mother & now grandmother. Her twin has had two disastrous marriages, which resulted in only 2 children & obviously works outside the home. My friend is "pleasantly plump" her twin, ridiculously thin. And I must stress, they are idents! I do believe what you are saying about genetic predisposition, but the nature vs. nurture factor must also be a factor here.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

jim thornton — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:14:36 GMT

It always comes back to calories in and calories out in the end. You can change the equation by far more by modifying what you eat (e.g. a 1,000 calorie burger) versus training. Nothing beats working both sides of the equation, but purely from the point of view of fat loss, I'd suggest that you start with food. You're probably right for some people, but this isn't necessarily the case with everybody. In a couple oft-cited weight studies with identical twins, Thomas Bouchard studied a large number of twin pairs via two different scenarios. In the first, he measured their maintenance diet, i.e., how many kcals they could eat per day to maintain their weight, neither gaining nor losing anything during a regular day. He then fed each guy 1000 calories less per day for a month. Most everybody lost some weight, but how much varied considerably. The old chestnut a lb. equaling 3200 calories didn't apply for most. Some people lost 20 lb., some lost less than 5. The once consistency: the amount you lost was very close to what your twin lost, indicating that response to diet is genetically mediated. In the second scenario, the men's diets were not restricted--they were still fed their previously determined "maintenance" number of calories--but they were required to burn 1000 kcals per day by exercising on a stationary bike--a sizable daily exercise load. Once again, how much different men lost during this period varied considerably. Once again, the only consistency was that you were very likely to lose close to the same amount as your identical twin. The bottom line: some people are diet responders; some are exercise responders; some respond to both; and, sadly, some don't respond terribly well to either. The body has all kinds of feedback loops controlling hunger, satiety, basal metabolic rate, wasting calories through so-called non shivering thermogenesis, etc. Americans like to think that we can control our destinies with the right amount of will power and commitment. I think it's true that we can temper our fates to some extent, but this extent is dictated by genes over which we do not have that much control. A person who lucks out and is both an exercise and diet responder is likely to give his character much more credit that it deserves. A person who responds well to neither diet nor exercise is likely to assume more blame than is warranted. Those in the vast middle are likely to have vacillating opinions on this, depending on whether hope or a sense of futility happens to predominate on a particular day.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:02:28 GMT

It is obvious that all else equal losing weight would help. However, it's never all else equal. I imagine the weight of the parts of the body in the water are more important than the other parts and surface area is also a significant factor so it isn't clear that gaining fat is that detrimental given potential positive bouyancy effects which might actually decrease or keep the same the amount of weight under the water.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:45:08 GMT

I've been up and down with my weight the last 3 years. what I have noticed at the end of this summer and start of the fall is my weight definitely effects my practice speed and my practice speed effects my racing times. in 2009 I got down to 184lbs from 236lbs in 2007 and I was able to reduce my test set of 10x100 from st 1:35 to 10x1:25 and my 100 fr time from 1:02 to 1:00 in 2009 I got hurt, shoulder problems, and I slowly put most of the weight back on getting up to 225 again. my training times dropped to 1:30 and it was tough. I am only back down to 213 now but already I am going 100's on 1:25. My race times from july 2011 are faster than 2010, but not quite to 2009 levels. I have 2 meets the last two weekends in sept, and then one the last weekend in oct and one in the middle of dec. if I can continue my current training and weight loss i will be back under 190lbs by dec and I beleive I will be swimming faster than I was in 2009. Not sure I will or won't to get to 184 again, but once I get to 190 and I can maintaín my weight and intensity with training then I will allow myself to go those extra 5-6lbs. but I won't be changing anything in the way I live today. with 3 kids, family parties, work parties and just relaxing on sundays is enough to ruin what ever extra work i would be willing to do during the week. Sounds to me like you are losing weight as you get fitter, and as you get fitter you get faster, rather than it being simply about weight...

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

__steve__ — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:46:16 GMT

Weight plays a big role with cycling, uphill especially. Swimming just doesn't seem to be effected by weight as much. I also notice that big swimmers have good starts. Of course F=ma is the factor, but it's also applying to the force of deceleration and with starts, gravity assists the heavier swimmer and there's more momentum.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Rykno — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 06:16:13 GMT

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:00:34 GMT

Nothing beats working both sides of the equation, but purely from the point of view of fat loss, I'd suggest that you start with food. I decided cut out 1,000 calorie burgers a long time ago. I typically go with 3-4 400 calorie burgers instead :blush: Sometimes I even use lowfat cheese. :banana:

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:44:19 GMT

As long as you exercise a lot, I don't think what you eat matters all that much. The stomach and intestines break it all down into simple sugars, amino acids, and fatty acids anyhow. I don't think it cares all that much if these come from free range chickens and wild dandelions or Snickers bars and Whoppers. It always comes back to calories in and calories out in the end. You can change the equation by far more by modifying what you eat (e.g. a 1,000 calorie burger) versus training. Nothing beats working both sides of the equation, but purely from the point of view of fat loss, I'd suggest that you start with food.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:40:27 GMT

23.4 is really good for someone of your size. How fast were you and what were your proportions at your peak? I believe the ideal swimming weight for someone your height is in the range of 175 to 205. You will probably drop half a second or more in your 50 for every 25 lbs you lose. (a full second in your 100) You'll be way way way faster if you lug less lard. Work on it, find out and let us know. ande You may drop half a second by losing your first 25lbs, but if you do you probably won't for your second and certainly not your 3rd. If you are capable of losing 100lbs, by doing nothing else different (i.e. just diet and don't train more) I don't think yu'll drop 2 full seconds over 50 yards, especially from 23 point. However, some of the things that you do to help you lose weight may help, i.e. training harder, with weights etc. It's a funny old game, though. I was about 40lbs over my current weight at one point and with training and diet managed to drop over a second over 50m ***. But this meant doing a lifetime best. I have friends who are overwights who are not even in the ballpark now. For me being out of shape never meant swimming much slower (over 50s) - it just hurt more!

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:46:41 GMT

Finally have some decent comparatively measured results a year later from two meets last year: 50 free LCM ============= Mid June - 2010: 267lbs - 26.9 sec. no shave, no taper Mid June - 2011: 253lbs - 26.6 sec. no shave, no taper .02 sec/pound Aug 1 2010 - 257lbs - 26.5 sec. shaved, tapered. Jul 31 2011 - 248lbs - 25.9 sec. shaved, tapered. .06 sec/pound The two don't exactly show an exact quarrelation, but tapered/shaved 50 LCM swims a year apart may be the closest I can come to comparing weight loss to speed. The training program hasn't changed much, taper program was the same, and shave was the same, approved jammer both years, but I did move from a grab start last year to a track start this year. Unsure if that poisoned my results a measurable amount or not. It may have. Vids of the taper swims for reference: 2010 50m - ‪swim_race1‬‏ - YouTube 2011 50m - ‪swim_race7‬‏ - YouTube (far right lane) Just thought I'd keep the thread updated :) Do you have any data for your 100 meter race from a year ago shaved and tapered and also times that are non-shaved and non-tapered?

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:20:04 GMT

As you get older you might want to replace the beer with wine, the cheeseburgers with a hamburger, and pizzia without pepperoni Baby steps. I'd first have to step from double cheeseburgers to just cheeseburgers, from a whole pizza to a half, and from full strength beer to light :)

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:53:30 GMT

Well, you are swimming great. Keep up the fantastic progress. How far off from your lifetime bests are you? More importantly than short term improvement, I hope you will stick with it for the duration! It took a LONG time to find old meters personal bests. I shedded all memory of LCM swims, and apparently my old results are older than the internet. In an old heat sheet from 1995 with hand written results, I finally found them. LCM times 1995: 50 free 25.6, 100 free 57.1 2011: 50 free 25.9, 100 free 57.4 SCY times: 2000: 50 free 21.7, 100 free 47.1 2011: 50 free 22.3, 100 free 48.9 I'd love to tell you I am in it for the long haul, but I know life happens at times too. All I can say is that I finally found a training regimen that I can stick to and not get burned out in 3 months as I have before. Imagine if I ate something other than cheeseburgers, pizza, and beer :blush:

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

jim thornton — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:23:04 GMT

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

__steve__ — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:00:37 GMT

. Imagine if I ate something other than cheeseburgers, pizza, and beer :blush:As you get older you might want to replace the beer with wine, the cheeseburgers with a hamburger, and pizzia without pepperoni

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

jim thornton — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:02:17 GMT

Actually I think it is indirect. I've long postulated that swimmers, typically, are slender and shaped the way they are as a direct result of the intense training they do, rather than a fit-the-mold requirement to go fast. The weight probably doesn't help speed, but I hesitate to say that it hurts it as much as many think, which is kindof why I started this little experiment. My improvement is probably more related to what I've done in a year rather than simply being lighter. The move to the track start may have skewed those results in favor of speed though. In heart of hearts explanation, as you ask, The likeliest is also the simplest: I've probably just gotten better since last year. I don't think it is random chance that I dropped time. Well, you are swimming great. Keep up the fantastic progress. How far off from your lifetime bests are you? More importantly than short term improvement, I hope you will stick with it for the duration! I have been swimming masters since 1984, i.e., the year I turned 33. With the exception of closed pools, work travel, the occasional broken bone, etc., I haven't stopped since. It was one of the best decisions of my life. I am swimming times, at age 58, that I swam back when I was in my 30s. The change in suit laws has affected me much more than age! Weight gain with each passing decade is almost inevitable for most people. But swimming has definitely kept my own fathood from proliferating too wildly. Again, best of luck, and keep up the great job.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 06:43:32 GMT

Do you have any data for your 100 meter race from a year ago shaved and tapered and also times that are non-shaved and non-tapered? Unfortunately last year I didn't swim the 100 free at all in LCM, only in SCY. All of those results should be in this thread somewhere. But I could go through and pull them if you really want to know.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 06:01:58 GMT

I suspect you believe in option 1, and you might be right. Then again, there could be a placebo effect involved with such a belief, too. You believe slimming down will let you swim faster, and expectations nudge you towards improvement whether or not the weight has nothing to do with it. What do you think, in your heart of hearts, is the likeliest explanation? Actually I think it is indirect. I've long postulated that swimmers, typically, are slender and shaped the way they are as a direct result of the intense training they do, rather than a fit-the-mold requirement to go fast. The weight probably doesn't help speed, but I hesitate to say that it hurts it as much as many think, which is kindof why I started this little experiment. My improvement is probably more related to what I've done in a year rather than simply being lighter. The move to the track start may have skewed those results in favor of speed though. In heart of hearts explanation, as you ask, The likeliest is also the simplest: I've probably just gotten better since last year. I don't think it is random chance that I dropped time.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 16:18:57 GMT

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

jim thornton — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 11:23:31 GMT

Vids of the taper swims for reference: 2010 50m - ‪swim_race1‬‏ - YouTube 2011 50m - ‪swim_race7‬‏ - YouTube (far right lane) Just thought I'd keep the thread updated :) Nice videos! Man, you really attacked those sprints. Do you think the weight difference is what directly accounts for your time change, or do you think it is an indirect effect, or maybe even spurious correlation? By this I guess I mean something along these lines: Direct effect: weigh less, more streamlined in water, less drag = better speed. Indirect effect: weighing less has no specific benefit for speed (less weight might be cancelled out by reduced buoyancy or a slight loss of muscle mass and power). but it IS directly correlated with being in better shape. Hence you swim faster not because you weigh less but because you are more fit (which has as a side effect reduced weight) Spurious correlation: weighing less has nothing to do with swimming faster at all. The differences in heavier vs. lighter times are within the margin of error. Had you swum the event a handful of times in mid june last year, odds are you would have swum as fast as you did in mid june this year. Ditto for the converse. Had you swum several 50s this year, odds are you would have had at least one swim as slow as last year. Just random distribution, in other words. I suspect you believe in option 1, and you might be right. Then again, there could be a placebo effect involved with such a belief, too. You believe slimming down will let you swim faster, and expectations nudge you towards improvement whether or not the weight has nothing to do with it. What do you think, in your heart of hearts, is the likeliest explanation?

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Sun, 15 May 2011 14:42:32 GMT

Pre meet weigh in for me was 250lbs 50y free 23.2 100y free 51.1 Both were in a regular speedo jammer. Both times are season bests if you disregard taper/shave/techsuit times. Pretty good results overall but it's hard to separate these mentally from taper times only 6 weeks ago. Still its fun to go rock a usas meet in the 15+ age group. I had most my competition doubled in age and also had them outweighed by about 100lbs each... still wound up with a first and a second place :)

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 15:21:32 GMT

You seem to be saying that the effect of being overweight should greater on longer races. I am not necessarily disagreeing, but why would that be? I think all of the factors you mention are worse at the higher speeds one encounters in shorter races, and I don't believe the effects (eg form drag) are linear with speed. well at least for me the extra weight slows me down more on longer races, because I can fake being in shape for 50 yards.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 15:18:53 GMT

Good luck! I hope you have a fast swim. But seriously..fast food? Blechh!! I always take food I fix myself to work. Whole wheat bagels with sliced veggies and mozzarella, grapes, strawberries, yogurt, pistachios and/or almonds...oh and sometimes one or two homemade chocolate chip cookies :) I eat fast food at least 3 days a week. On the days that I don't (lunchtime swims), I supplement with 2 gas station hot dogs after practice :) Most of my dinners are home cooked or regular restaurant though. Not saying there's no reason I'm heavy either ;)

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 07:34:11 GMT

Quantifying how much faster you will swim with weight loss seems trivial when you compare it with the health benefits you will reap. Ever since I ditched diets and focused on my health, I have been able to very easily stay at a normal weight - believe me, I never miss a meal. :) What about finding ways to enjoy meals that are a little healthier and make small improvements to the diet step by step? That's what I did after college and after awhile I actually preferred the healthier fare! I can come up with a dozen "yeah but..." answers to this. Certainly none of them are good or even logical :) I've taken a few strides towards something like this, but its not been so much of a change of "what" as opposed to "how much" :) Most days for lunch, instead of $12 at taco bell or burger king, it's like $4-5 now lol :banana: Eventually perhaps my appetite will grow up too :blush: Right on the cusp this week. Weighed in at 250. That 249 scale reading will be a milestone :) I have a meet tomorrow and sunday also, so i'll have more non-shave, non-taper results at this weight. I'd be thrilled to go sub 50sec in the 100y free.

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 07:02:00 GMT

what would be the typical body fat of an Olympic swimmer vs. a top-level Masters swimmer? Elite swimmers have around 5%. And body fat differences are influenced in how much one might practice, and what kind of eating habits are established. Most former swimmers maintain the appetite of hungry bear long after their competition days. In due time the only ribs you may see on those guys is when they're eating. But with good technique even the big football player types can move through the water with the greatest of ease. You could bet money that Michael Phelps at 250+ pounds would still be quite the speed demon. This was an interesting study called "Slim Enough To Swim?"

RE: How much does body weight effect swimming speed?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 05:55:57 GMT

Floating may not translate to speed, but it can help. Most long distance ocean swimmers carry the extra weight for both insulation and buoyancy. In a pool setting, the skinny people seem to have the advantage.