Starts - Blocks v In Water

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

orca1946 — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:36:24 GMT

Way to go Rick ! :applaud: Records are great at any age.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Michael Heather — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:09:58 GMT

Now that you have been informed about in water starts, I will confuse you more. You do not have to dive from the blocks. You can dive from the deck if that is more comfortable, or dive from a sitting position on the deck, with your feet on the gutter. You may want to experiment with these before going to the in water start. If you decide to use one of these starts, you should also alert the starter beforehand.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

FindingMyInnerFish — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:59:04 GMT

When I first considered entering a meet, my biggest fear was of starting from a block. I practiced some dive starts and could do them but never felt comfortable. Then a friend told me I could start in the water if I wanted. That was a big relief! In my first meet, I chose the compromise of diving from the deck. But it set my mind at ease knowing I could choose what felt comfortable. I have since done in-water, diving from the deck and diving off a block starts--the last mainly to help my time and also to help me face a fear. Now it basically depends on how much practice I've had with block dives before a meet what I decide to do, but I no longer worry about it either way. I think if more swimmers know that in-water starts are an option, there likely will be increased participation in meets.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Former Member — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:39:22 GMT

Wow! Congrats on the records!!! I, too, had a much better meet this past weekend with in-water starts. I let the starter know before the meet began and he notified the ref. My times were only off by less than a second (except for backstroke...which was a disaster anyhoo). But, being more relaxed off the start really helped me focus on the swim and my knees were MUCH happier!!!!

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

osterber — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 02:16:27 GMT

To clarify some advise on in-water starts and administrative procedure. IT will specifically vary from meet to meet and official to official, but a general guideline is this: * You should notify the Meet Referee or the Starter that you will need an in-water start. You should do this after they have their heat sheet for your event. In some meets (like our New England LMSC champs), we seed each event 60 minutes before it swims. So you should wait until the heat sheets are posted, and then tell the referee, so that they can mark it on their program. * In most meets, you're probably safe to do this maybe about 5-10 minutes before you swim. So if it's a 1650, tell them while the heat before you is swimming. If it's a 50 free, tell them about 10 heats ahead of time. * Do the Referee a favor, and tell them about _each_ swim you will be doing, on the same schedule. Depending on how the meet is configured, they may or may not remember your situation for your next swim unless you go back and tell them. * In many or most meets these days, "fly over starts" are used, where the next heat starts while the last heat is in the water. In some meets, this will mean that the long whistle ("step up") will be blown before the previous heat finishes. If this is the case, DO NOT JUMP IN THE WATER until the person in your lane has finished, and give them a few seconds so they see you jumping in on them. The Starter will give you time to get settled before initiating the start. * Overall - don't panic. Over the years, I've seen a fair number of people doing in-water starts panic just a bit because they think the starter is going to start without them. Don't worry... we'll get you in. If something's wrong and you can't get in... wave your hand out over the water so that the Starter/Referee can see you, and they'll stop and make sure things are in order. -Rick

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

__steve__ — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 01:18:52 GMT

I did get both state records and both times were Masters Nationals Qualifying times - and I did have someting left at the end of each race. :) Congradulations!

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Rick — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 01:11:20 GMT

Thanks everyone for your advice on blocks v. in-water starts. I ended up doing in-water starts for both races (500 & 1,000) this past weekend - mostly because my PT was concerned about the stress on my shoulder joint which did seem more sore than usual after some practice starts off of the blocks about a week ago (I have had 5 shoulder surgeries in the past 20 years - 2 of them major). And the advice about the energy required for a block start v. what you want to have left at the end of a distance swim seemed reasonable to consider. For me, given the nature of these 2 races, the decision was a good one. I was not that far behind people who were close to me in age (there was nobody in my 65-69 age group or older) - even at the 25. I did get both state records and both times were Masters Nationals Qualifying times - and I did have someting left at the end of each race. So, thanks everyone for all of your good advice!!

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

BillS — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:28:50 GMT

So, for wall starts, do you have one hand and both feet on the wall or are you just kinda hanging there with your hand on the top of the wall/gutter? Or is that something I need to ask the timekeeper/ref? Rule says at least one foot and hand on wall. 101.1.1 Forward Start—The forward start may be taken from the starting block, the pool deck, or a push from the wall. At the commencement of each heat, the referee shall signal to the swimmers by a short series of whistles to remove all clothing except for swimwear, followed by a long whistle indicating that they should take their positions with at least one foot at the front of the starting platform, the edge of the pool, or on the wall before the command “Take your mark.” Those starting in the water must have at least one hand in contact with the wall or starting block. Allen is correct about the pad going dead for a period after the gun to prevent false tripping. I think you can vary the time on the console, but it's at least a few seconds.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Rykno — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:43:51 GMT

since one can start in the water, I do not think starting on the side withyour toes over the edge will set off the touch pad any more than your full body weight pushing off in the water. I think it has more to do with what you get out of your dive (block or wall) vs push. we have a few 50+ that haven't raced in a pool before only open water. they do not get the same advantage from a dive as I do. but they do have some advantage with diving vs pushing. if you have problems keeping your goggles on, then maybe it's better to push or dive from the side and not the block for me in breaststroke it's not as much about time as it is about distance I can go with my underwater work that saves me strokes and energy. my first stroke on a dive is around the 11-12m mark. but on turns (from a push) I'm up around 8-9m.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Former Member — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:47:07 GMT

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Former Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:10:20 GMT

I agree with Allen on the approximate advantages of a block start. For a longer swim, if you are worried about your start, a block start may be a disadvantage. You have the stress (block) vs confidence (push) factor as well as an energy factor. A block start takes a lot more energy than a push, and that energy might be better saved for the back half of the race. If you aren't worried about adding 2 seconds to your time, and would enjoy the race more from a push, start from a push. When starting from the wall, how does one go about letting the referee/timekeepers, etc. know that you are starting down there? Do you have to tell them ahead of time, or when they announce your heat just jump in and wave and say "hey, I'm starting from the wall"?? Best bet, ask the starter before the meet starts. You can probably hop in after the person in your lane finishes. At a fast run meet during heats of 50s, expect this to be a bit of a cluster. Dive overs are common, where the next person starts while the last person waits in the water until the race has started to climb out, which means there would be two people on the wall. Of course, heats of 50s are always a bit of a cluster.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Allen Stark — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:18:00 GMT

It is my understanding that you should jump in at the long whistle,when the others are to be climbing onto the block.When the "gun"(beep) goes off the pad goes dead for a set time to prevent the accidental stopping of the timer.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

__steve__ — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:17:17 GMT

Are there any timer configurations incompatible with any starts other than block, like reaction time setups? Also, is there a possibilty of triggering a "finish" on the pad with the feet upon initial push? That would be a 50 in a fraction of a second - lol.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Former Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:37:27 GMT

I'm glad someone posted about this topic. I was wondering the same thing in regards to how much time is lost when starting in the water vs from the blocks. At my last meet, I started from the blocks and wound up hitting the bottom of the pool with me knees (yep, it was a bad start). Also, trying to get a good jump absolutely tore my knees up and my arthritis flared up horribly. When starting from the wall, how does one go about letting the referee/timekeepers, etc. know that you are starting down there? Do you have to tell them ahead of time, or when they announce your heat just jump in and wave and say "hey, I'm starting from the wall"??

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Former Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:03:00 GMT

The advantage of a block start depends a lot on the quality of the dive and streamline. My rule of thumb is also 2 seconds, but this will shrink as the dive becomes less powerful and the streamline less tight. My guess is that most of those who feel shaky enough on the blocks to be considering an in-water start are giving up considerably less than 2 seconds. This is only a generalization, though: balance, strength, and flexibility are very different things. (The OP can ignore this comment, as he said he had good starts.)

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

orca1946 — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:37:04 GMT

Some time in a 50, but longer - it's up to you & the sore body parts. A man on our team still dove from the blocks at 81. I wish to be so lucky to be doing that at that age.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

knelson — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:45:11 GMT

I'd say the only way to know for sure is to swim an all out 25 once from the block and once from a push and compare times. Anything else is just a guess.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

Allen Stark — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:04:21 GMT

Diving from the blocks is about 1 sec faster than from the pool deck and about 2 sec faster than in the water starts.Do what ever feels safe for you.

RE: Starts - Blocks v In Water

__steve__ — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:00:21 GMT

My first 200 was a NT so I seeded with a wide range of swimmers. One was 87, he started in the water, another was in his sixties and dove but from the side. Although starting from the block is the fastest, I have to hold back a little from fear of dislocating a shoulder that needs fixing. I'm still considering dive starts from the side.