Breaststroke help

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 03:49:05 GMT

:bump: for an update. I hope to have a video by the 1-year mark to compare. Thanks for all of you who helped me out. I am now going about 6 strokes per length, maybe 9 if sprinting. Underwater, I can do the drill in 3 or 4 strokes. 4 is very easy, and sometimes I just miss 3. I kick, no board in 5 or 6 kicks, and pull with a buoy in 8 strokes. I am not a lot faster for a 25, but I can now swim a 200 from a push in under 7 strokes per length. At the time of the video, I never would have thought that possible. I could hardly finish a 50. Kicking is still my weakness, and I am working on keeping my head neutral on each stroke. It wants to pop up like a whack-a-mole. Torso flexibility seems to have been the key. I am still not fast, but I think this year's work has turned me back into a swimmer. Thanks again to everyone who helped.

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:48:29 GMT

I just wanna bump this to say that the underwater breaststroke drill is awesome. It's really helping me get a feel for the water. I've been doing it on the back half of a 50 (actually 2x25 on the :30) to work on my lung capacity. My underwater DPS has come down each week. On the front half, I am doing the breaststroke pull/fly kick to work on my rhythm. Broke 18 on a 25 today for the first time, too. :)

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:56:30 GMT

Way to go!!!:banana::banana:

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:31:10 GMT

After about 10 minutes of working on it, I can now kick with my knees together. I also figured out that they way I learned breaststroke, I incorporate a pause into my pull naturally because I am saying "pull/kick/glide" in my head and attention shifts to my legs. I worked on thrusting my hands forward and did some underwater breaststroke, which was a pretty cool sensation. I did some 25s for time, and even though I felt like I wasn't kicking right, I repeated 19s, where I was over 20 all the time my old way. I really appreciate all the help.

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:24:56 GMT

You are kicking way too wide.That not only increases the risk of groin strain,but it robs you of power.You want to kick back ,not out(keep your knees no more than 2 fists apart,get your toes pointing at the outside walls and kick straight back.It won't be actually straight back as your feet start outside your knees so they do follow a curve,but there is no kick out.)The other big problem is that you do not accelerate through the insweep into the recovery,but are getting stuck a little and the end of the insweep in the dreaded "prayer position." This causes a great deal of drag bringing you nearly to a stop.This is interfering with your glide and decreasing you DPS.

RE: Breaststroke help

orca1946 — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:15:21 GMT

Buy poly jammers, they last 5 times longer than lycra/ nylon. You will feel the difference right away.

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:35:24 GMT

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:04:49 GMT

First focus on accelerating into the recovery as a continuous motion. Some drills-1)swim breaststroke underwater,this makes it easier to feel dead spots. 2) take a paddle and either take off the straps or turn it over so that as you do the pull the only thing holding the paddle in place is water pressure.Then if you have dead spots the paddles fall off. 3) Slugs head out of water BR pulls(I do it without the pull buoy so that it is sink or swim.) Cool. I'm on it. Thanks!

RE: Breaststroke help

Former Member — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:19:34 GMT

2 drills that I think would help you: Swim breaststroke with dolphin kick. You can alternate this with swimming regular breaststroke. You'll notice more of a wavelike feeling when you transition to regular stroke after swimming it with dolphin kick. Breaststroke pull with a buoy... keeping your head above water and as motionless as possible. In order to do that you will need to pull very quickly and smoothly. This gives you a feel for the type of explosive acceleration and "shooting forward" motion that you need to apply to your regular pull.

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:53:58 GMT

. On the insweep, how do I fix that? Hand position? Timing? First focus on accelerating into the recovery as a continuous motion. Some drills-1)swim breaststroke underwater,this makes it easier to feel dead spots. 2) take a paddle and either take off the straps or turn it over so that as you do the pull the only thing holding the paddle in place is water pressure.Then if you have dead spots the paddles fall off. 3) Slugs head out of water BR pulls(I do it without the pull buoy so that it is sink or swim.)

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:31:43 GMT

RE: Breaststroke help

ande — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:14:30 GMT

if you've got minor groin strains rest them till they are better then try kicking again gentle at first getting more intense but if there is ANY PAIN STOP immediately swim free back or fly and STOP kicking *** now are you saying you've reduced your 25 *** from 12 to 8 or 9 strokes that is still too many strokes work on gliding more on your push offs glide more before you pull glide more after you pull glide more after each kick I am new to masters swimming, and had not trained since 1988 until a couple of months ago. I am not exactly killing it yet, but I am finally getting a feel for the water, and I cranked out a 1200 workout today and it felt like I was just getting started. Anyway, to the point ... I was a breaststroker in the old days, and I never learned to swim with my head going under in my glide. About a month ago, I decided to try it (with help from some old posts here). I finally got the rhythm down last week, taking my strokes per 25 down from 12 to 8/9, but it feels like I am putting way too much strain on my inner thighs during my kick, resulting in some mild groin strains (both sides)from trying to go to fast (kicking too hard, if there is such a thing). Is this just a matter of getting used to a new angle? I can breaststroke kick only for as long as I want without trouble, but as soon as I put in the big glide, ouch. I swam plenty of breaststroke today without pain, but I went easy on the kick. I appreciate any advice. -Jim L

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:24:29 GMT

Well, if this worked, it's a vid of me swimming today. Lighting was really bad at the pool, so hopefully there's enough to see. I appreciate any feedback. HrvWBlyhGsU

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:38:16 GMT

Cool. :bow: Thanks for the feedback. Heading to the pool now. I'll work on that arm angle. I thought I might be going too deep. Re: video, once I get a day when I have open swim and my kids are out of school, I'll get my daughter to shoot some video. Might be a while though.

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:41:11 GMT

Your hands are way too deep.You want a 0-10% angle(you are shooting forward,not down.)If your hands are drifting up you are too deep and have glided too long.I am 5'8'" and my strokes/length depends on my speed.just coasting it is 4-5,200 pace it is 6,100 pace 7-8,all out it is 9(this does not count the pull down.)7-8/25 is fine.Having the waves follow you into the wall is probably fine,you can't swim fast without making waves,but it is also hard to swim slowly without making waves so it doesn't tell you much.Keep it up.Can you get a video for us to look at?

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:31:11 GMT

Much better, and the 'wave' was from too much up/down in the chest. :applaud:

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:37:50 GMT

New questions as I get more comfortable with this: 1) on my glide, after driving my hands forward and slightly downward, my hands drift back up as I lose momentum. If this is right, at what point should I start the next stroke? When the hands are still deep, when they approach the surface, or somewhere in the middle? 2) I am to the point where the stroke is pretty consistent, so I want to make sure it is right. What is the approximate downward angle of the arms relative to the water surface on the glide? I am probably 20-30 degrees when my arms first fully extend. 3) At the wall, I am followed by several big (a few inches high, and forceful) waves after my touch. Does this mean I am doing something right, or am I doing something wrong? 4) I am down to 7-8 pulls per 25 yards, starting from a push. What is a good rate? (I'm only 5'9" if that makes a difference.) Thanks again for the help so far. I hope my questions help others too.

RE: Breaststroke help

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:27:13 GMT

Fascinating. I have completly rebuilt my freestyle stroke and kick with help from this site. Now I'll go to work on ***! Thanks Allen, Georgio

RE: Breaststroke help

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:05:44 GMT

Are you stating this is the maximum distance knees apart? Georgio :confused:

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:46:03 GMT

Are you stating this is the maximum distance knees apart? Georgio :confused: Ordinarily yes,if you have very poor ankle flexibility you may want to have your knees wider to more closely get your feet perpedicular to the direction of thrust,or some people with knee problems find thet get less knee strain with the knees further apart(although some find just the opposite,also I guess if you have really small hands it might not be a good rule of thumb.)

RE: Breaststroke help

Allen Stark — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:54:47 GMT

Re: the pull buoy between the knees drill,you can't do a regular kick that way,but it is an over compensation so you learn to not kick too wide.You want to keep your knees 1-2 fists apart in the regular stroke at the beginning and finish the kick with your ankles or feet touching. Keep it up.

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 04:55:25 GMT

After taking last Friday off from swimming, legs felt great today but I didn't really push. Managed a strong (though not fast) 100 with the same # of strokes per 25. I think is is really just conditioning. I did try the kick with a pull buoy, and I can't do that at all. I think my kick is pretty tight and not wide, but my knees open just enough to lose the buoy. Am I doing something wrong? I also did some kicking with a board, dunking my head to simulate the glide and get the rhythm, and it seemed right. Thanks for the help.

RE: Breaststroke help

orca1946 — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:38:45 GMT

At the gym, work the inner thigh muscle.

RE: Breaststroke help

Jimbosback — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 03:25:56 GMT

Thanks Ande and orca -- makes sense. I have added a routine for hip and groin to my training that will hopefully help. Legs feel good today, and I'll be taking it easy tomorrow.

RE: Breaststroke help

ande — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:14:06 GMT

STOP kicking breastroke from the first signs of any inner thigh strains take it easy, gently work your way back into kicking breastroke harder and farther