Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:35:23 GMT

Dedicated (and undedicated) swimmers, it will do no harm, and perhaps infinite good, to you, your loved ones (assuming they love you in return), and your lane mates, by: Showering before entering the pool (reduces sweats and other bodily fluid and anything undesirable in a pool) (How hard is it to do so? :cool:) Getting out of the pool into the bathroom when you have nature's call (Or you yourself would be in the closest vicinity of combined chlorine and organic compound = THMs = carcinogen :cool:) (I believe there were discussions about this here in the past. Just search for chlorine and cancer.) The other day I swam in a heavily chlorinated pool, it burned my nose, and another swimmer said it burned her eyes. My goggles would get a thick layer of white build-up around the frames after swimming in that pool for just a few days, but it gets nothing after more than a year of swimming in another pool. I wonder if those white stuffs could penetrate my skin, like salt and sugar? :rolleyes:

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:29:20 GMT

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:43:40 GMT

You actually lose a couple pounds in water during a good swim. We have an actual scientist in our group and he explained it to me. It's not sweating, it's osmosis or something like that. He mentioned the term 'osmolality' and said it's the same process that causes your fingers to wrinkle.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:48:25 GMT

Chlorine Can React With Sweat, Urine At Indoor Swimming Pools Forming Volatile Disinfection Byproducts Researchers at Purdue University have determined how certain airborne contaminants are created when chlorine reacts with sweat and urine in indoor swimming pools, a step toward learning how to reduce the formation of "volatile disinfection byproducts" that cause respiratory irritation. "Some indoor swimming pools seem to have a characteristic chlorine odor," said Purdue environmental engineering professor Ernest R. Blatchley III. "You may think you're smelling chlorine, but you are probably smelling a mixture of disinfection byproducts. If their concentrations get high enough, then they can become an irritant to your respiratory system, to your skin and to your eyes." What's In Your Water? Disinfectants Create Toxic By-Products In Drinking Water And Public Swimming Pools Plewa said that studies were showing higher levels of bladder cancer and asthma in people who do a lot of swimming - professional swimmers as well as athletic swimmers. These individuals have greater and longer exposure to toxic chemicals which are absorbed through the skin and inhaled.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

knelson — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:41:27 GMT

Showering before entering the pool (reduces sweats and other bodily fluid and anything undesirable in a pool) Aren't you sweating a lot in the pool anyway?

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:31:28 GMT

I'd like to hear a chemist chime in here, but my understanding is the concentration of elemental chlorine gas in a pool's atmosphere is going to be pretty close to nil. Chlorine compounds, yes, but chlorine, no. It's so reactive it doesn't stay in its elemental form for long. Now I also know that some tiny fraction of molecules are going to crack apart in water - even tap water has some free H and OH ions in it. Whether chlorine ions get produced in the pool and if so how long they remain as ions when the reach the air is what I'm not sure of. The thread title is misleading. The potential danger is not from chlorine gas directly. Chlorination can be done either using a hypochlorite salt or by elemental chlorine, which as you note dissolves and reacts pretty quickly to form hypochlorite (there will be some small dissolved chlorine gas remaining but not very much). Pool pH control is essential to have the right balance of hypochlorite (OCl-) & hypochlorous acid (HOCl); it is the acidic that is more effective at killing pathogens. I believe hypochlorite salts are generally used for (chlorinated) swimming pools, while chlorine gas tends to be used for drinking water and sewage disinfection. It shouldn't be all that surprising that things that are meant to kill bacteria etc might have health effects on nontarget organisms, but most of the risk is not from HOCl & OCl- directly but from reactions involving them. Chloramines are produced by the reaction with ammonia and organic amines (including urea). A number of disinfection byproducts (eg chloroform and other trihalomethanes, THMs) are also produced by the reaction with other organics. Of course the risk from these things is less than the risk posed by disease if the water is not disinfected. But there are potentially better ways of sanitizing the water. The facility I swim at has two pools, one of which uses uv disinfection and the other uses ozone. The reason they went to these systems was that, with chlorination, the air quality was so bad that most of the kids were hacking and some were having more serious respiratory problems. The pool is great now; (light) chlorination is used as a backup when necessary. Most civil or environmental engineering or wastewater treatment references will tell you more than you ever want to know about chlorination chemistry.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 09:09:58 GMT

Aren't you sweating a lot in the pool anyway? "Reduces sweat." Even if you sweat again in the pool. And what about the "other bodily fluid" and other stuffs? :rolleyes: Some people dive into the pool right after an hour of treadmill exercise, soaking wet with their sweat, and use the pool as a bathtub. :shakeshead:

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

aquageek — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 04:16:11 GMT

I think the nasty crap I see in lakes that I ultimately swim in is much more concerning, or maybe the crud on the locker room floor. But, none of it bothers me very much at all.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

orca1946 — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:19:11 GMT

It would have to be really bad to have harmful effects on you, that said if you are having problems, ask for a water report from the pool operator.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

smontanaro — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:02:58 GMT

Sweating is meant to cool the body by evaporation. Unless the pool temperature is very high I suspect heat conduction between your body and the water is sufficient so sweating isn't necessary. If the pool is too warm (or your heat output is too high), then your body will probably sweat even though it will serve no purpose other than to dehydrate you and make the pool a bit saltier/dirtier. S

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:53:47 GMT

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 08:12:44 GMT

Doesn't matter how well pool chemistry is implemented, water quality is limited to frequency and quantity of water change. As I swim around the buoy, about a 100 yards offshore fronting Janet Gaynor's bungalow, there's no way I'm going back to the filthy pool. I'll take my chances with all the spill/runoffs, man-o-wars, sharks, sea urchins, and other sea creatures lurking about me. Swimming with green sea turtles is worth it.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

FindingMyInnerFish — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:21:08 GMT

In the last several weeks, every time I'd do increased distance, I'd find myself unable to do any swim (or sometimes any) workout the next day. I would have a feeling of "coming down with something"--sometimes with cold/allergy symptoms. I wasn't at first making the connection--but when it happened (it seemed) every Monday (the day after my more extended workouts), I began getting suspicious. This week has been too busy for any kind of swimming (fortunately for me, I'm also a runner) but with the start of the new year, I plan to renew my membership at the local high school pool which is better maintained than the one I've been using.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:01:52 GMT

If chlorine gas is worrying you, then don't read this blog post by our good friend Gold Medal Mel: www.goldmedalmel.typepad.com/.../chlorine-and-pee-pee-can-kill-you.html Here's an excerpt: After years and years of competitive swimming, and training, and peeing in pools all over the planet, I learned the toxic truth regarding my actions: it can kill. I've read this before, but I never really paid attention. Now it seems the news is everywhere, or maybe I'm just getting older and more susceptible to worrying. Apparently, organic material such as hair, skin, dried sweat and urine, reacts with chlorine, creating disinfection byproducts (DBPs) that are 10,000 times more toxic than just chlorine. Common DBPs formed from this swimming pool cocktail are trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids. Trihalomethanes, Cancer Group B carcinogens, cause cancer in lab rats. They've also been implicated in other disturbing problems; spontaneous abortion, stillbirths, congenital malformations. The bad news doesn't end there. DBPs weaken your immune system, screw with your nervous system, and deteriorate your cardiovascular system.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

__steve__ — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:13:32 GMT

Doesn't matter how well pool chemistry is implemented, water quality is limited to frequency and quantity of water change.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:42:33 GMT

We were discussing nose-clips on another thread to deal with the repercussions of this PH imbalance situation. I posted this note: Definitely make the effort to send letters/emails to the pool operators and club management to inform them of the problem. It is rare that the pool operator actually swims in the pool so don't assume he/she knows about it! More than likely it is a PH imbalance. Not always easy to fix if it is a far gone issue. But poor maintanence practice is big problem at many pools. Big days at the pool - meets or consecutive full workouts can mean a deluge of urine and other nasties. Chemicals have to be adjusted to clean it up - and then adjusted back to maintenance mode. I coached some masters swimmers who are actually active elected board of director members of our club. One BOD swimmer wrote a letter inviting the management to "join us for a workout". The hope was that swimming in the offensive water might finally help them realize the severity of the issue. Constantly complaining about it for months/years wasn't working. Do not assume they know. And now the press may play it out badly for us. But we don't want to loose swimmers or potential new members. We just want the pool operators to do their job and keep the balance of chemicals.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

Former Member — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:22:57 GMT

Define high levels for your purpose. From my perspective, high levels of chlorine gas are visibly green, which I have yet to experience at a pool.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

__steve__ — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:34:34 GMT

HCl fumes permanently destroy lung tissue. Chlorine and chloramine gases, if concentrated enough, can be bad too but at pool levels it's way too weak. Unless someone drops a gallon of HCl acid on the ground. I got hit by a some hcl fumes once and it was some terrible stuff.

RE: Chlorine Gas Poisoning/Damage?

smontanaro — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:00:37 GMT

Note that chlorine compounds are not the only dangerous chemicals in use at pools. Muriatic acid comes to mind as very dangerous if not used with care. Also, Google to the rescue. Try these two searches: pool chlorine fumes muriatic acid fumes S