Distance Freestyle Breathing

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:29:23 GMT

I am not an expert swimmer like many of you, not having grown up as an age group swimmer. I think at least in part for that reason, breathing to my off-side has never worked. I might as well just breath every six strokes and stick to breathing right. That said, for me it seems the fewer strokes I take the better, not just in a distance-per-stroke sense. The second time I did the 10k postal swim I believe I dropped about seven minutes from the year before (3:13 vs 3:20 sticks in my mind, though MyUSMS doesn't seem to care about postal swims). I credited part of that improvement (perhaps erroneously, who knows?) to taking one or two dolphin kicks off each wall. I wasn't doing any sort of Phelpsian kick of course, but it probably saved a stroke on each 50m. For distance swimming, stroke count really isn't a concern...at least to me. More importantly is turnover rate/tempo and maintaining it. The weird thing for me is that after all my years of age group/college swimming in my new swimming life my stroke may look similiar, but its completely different as far as feel. I'm right handed, but due to some shoulder issues my left arm is much stronger. I breathe more to the right (was my strong side) when, if fact, my left side is stronger. But it just isn't comfortable and doesn't match my kick/hip pattern to always breathe to the left. My free, while my best and favorite stroke, has never actually felt "quite right" because of this. When I putter out it can start getting sloppy and falling apart a bit.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:43:25 GMT

Should I “train as I plan to race” or should I force myself to kick and limit my breathing off the walls? You should absolutely train as you plan to race. Bilateral breathing (every 3rd) and a single dolphin kick off the wall have become natural for me, but I have been training like that. I do take a breath on the first stroke but am past the flags at that point.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:06:13 GMT

For me, its just really however it "feels". I can go either way....bilateral or just to my right.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

smontanaro — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:47:40 GMT

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Bobinator — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:59:46 GMT

No it's legal to dolfin as much as you want on free, back, and fly. Your head must break the water and start swimming properly by the 15 meter mark.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

orca1946 — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:55:43 GMT

What ever works for you .On 3 or to each side every stroke. If you want to try do a race doing each to see times !

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:34:49 GMT

I have wondered about this, too. I'm sure it's a common question. I agree with both of you: I agree that breathing bilaterally helps my stroke. But I also agree that I race better without restricting my oxygen unnecessarily. My solution is to do the majority of my practice yards breathing bilaterally, switching to breathe every two strokes only when the pace gets fast enough that breathing every 3 would limit my ability to hold the speed. Then in a race, I breathe every two. Those 1650 yards of lopsided breathing aren't going to destroy my stroke, but the lack of oxygen would hurt my time. So no, I don't practice like I race. I guess the bilateral breathing in practice is like a constant, low-grade drill.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:25:11 GMT

Like you, I can do all of this, but am I hurting my overall performance by trying to incorporate the kicking and restricted breathing? You have to determine that for yourself. My stroke is definitely more symmetric, and my times are still getting faster (at least until they take away my Blue Seventy). For what it's worth, I recently spoke with the coach of the Nitro national team, Tim O'Brien, and asked him about breathing patterns for distance events. He strongly encourages bilateral breathing.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:10:08 GMT

Bilateral breathing (every 3rd) and a single dolphin kick off the wall have become natural for me, but I have been training like that. I do take a breath on the first stroke but am past the flags at that point. Not to be argumentative, but this is my delimma. If the best distance freestylers in the world have (generally) determined that the energy expended to dolphin kick off the walls isn't worth it. And that the "cost" of bilateral breathing and restricted breathing out of the turns isn't worth it. I think we mere mortals (who are not nearly as highly trained) should pattern this approach. Like you, I can do all of this, but am I hurting my overall performance by trying to incorporate the kicking and restricted breathing?

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:07:22 GMT

"I see few at the elite level dolphin kick off the walls and most of them take a breath on the first stroke out of the turn." Isin't that illegal?

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:08:44 GMT

I’ve been wondering about the breathing issue for distance events. I use differing breathing patterns during pulling sets, but always race breathing every two strokes (once per stroke cycle). I’ve been watching YouTube videos of elite level races and can confirm that most men breathe every two strokes while racing. My question concerns turns during racing. I see few at the elite level do even a single dolphin kick off the walls and most of them take a breath on the first stroke out of the turn. This seems to confirm that the need for oxygen in distance racing supersedes the slight advantage of dolphin kicking off the walls or waiting to breathe after one or two strokes out of the turn. Should I “train as I plan to race” or should I force myself to kick and limit my breathing off the walls?

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Bobinator — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:18:53 GMT

I've been trying to change my "every two strokes one sided breathing" this year. I have taught myself to bilateral breath. Using bilateral breathing I have dropped my 200 time 4.9 seconds and I feel like I'm using less energy. When I move up to 500-1,000-and 1650 I have a hard time maintaining the 1.5 cycle breaths. I can go about 200 yds but then need to go with a 2-2-2-3-3-2-2-2. Maybe mixing the 3's up a bit would make it a bit smoother.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:20:51 GMT

How do they measure/document oxygen consumption during swimming? I make these measurements in kids in my pulmonary function lab who are on the treadmill or bike, I can't conceive of a system to do this reliably in the water, either O2 consumption or oxygen saturation. I would love to know how to do this (or who to contact to learn more). Swimming flume is used. The subject is swimming in place and has no turns. I think Maglischo has a picture in his book. I believe some sort of snorkel apparatus is used with noseclips.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:55:39 GMT

Maglischo has some useful content on this conundrum from memory. Been a while since I read it though

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:50:22 GMT

Ok thanks. I was personally thinking that the amount of oxygen required would be a function of the effort I'm putting in rather than actual speed. I'm putting in a lot of effort to maintain 1:40 100s after the first 200 or 300. Or at least it feels that way, the muscles tire a lot. Thanks, David

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

pendaluft — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:53:42 GMT

This is true and it's been documented this way. How do they measure/document oxygen consumption during swimming? I make these measurements in kids in my pulmonary function lab who are on the treadmill or bike, I can't conceive of a system to do this reliably in the water, either O2 consumption or oxygen saturation. I would love to know how to do this (or who to contact to learn more).

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:16:49 GMT

My unexperienced humble opinion is maybe they breath every stroke rather than every 1.5 strokes (bilateral), as you, because they are going slightly faster and require more O2. Since you are pacing and not requiring as much O2 you end up hyperventilating with a 1per 1 pattern - lightheadedness? This is true and it's been documented this way. However, in certain events (or maybe in all events I don't know), stroke balance isn't something a swimmer wants to achieve. It's also been documented that unilateral breathers use both arms in a slightly different manner. The stroke is not symmetrical. Each arm becomes specialized in its role. Usually, more propulsion comes from the breathing side arm and the non breathing side arm works little differently. A sticking example of this is shown in the clip where Phelps gets beaten on the 200 by this German sensation. On the last 50, Phelps doesn't even breathe (every 2) on the side that would have allowed to see his opponent. Could be a mistake, could also be that he knew he wasn't maybe going to be as fast if switching roles for his 2 arms by breathing the other side. I've suffered this issue for ever. Even today, when I breathe right, I loose half a stroke per 25m (and the time this half a stroke represents), unless I really make more effort keeping DPS constant. (I always count - or at least am aware of my stroke count, hence the fact that I could discover this for myself) That said, I try to work on each side all the time, in almost every set.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

ourswimmer — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:08:05 GMT

I was personally thinking that the amount of oxygen required would be a function of the effort I'm putting in rather than actual speed. Of course it is. If lightheadedness, rather than any perceived need for balance to avoid fishtailing or shoulder strain or something, is causing you to breathe every 3d rather than every 2d arm, I think the answer is that you are not exhaling forcefully or thoroughly enough.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:52:26 GMT

David, I grew up a distance swimmer training to breathe every 3 strokes as a classic bilateral pattern. Nowadays I do some variant of a 2-2-3-2-3-2, etc. pattern (e.g., breathe R,R,L,L,R,R, etc.). This seems to allow me to get more air and keep the bilateral component that I feel I need for stroke balance. Same here, but in my 2nd life as a swimmer (15 years off inbetween) I'm much more a right side only every other breather in distance. I try that same pattern as above since it usually puts me going into the way the same way every lap, breathe to the right into the wall. The original poster should also keep in mind that he comparing himself to elite 1500 swimmers. They have just a "little" over us.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

__steve__ — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:12:52 GMT

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

tjrpatt — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:46:15 GMT

I swim every 2nd stroke to the left side. Near the end of my long races, I breathe to the other side here and there. It seems to work for me. When I was growing up, I would breathe 3-2. Elite distance swimmers are in a world of their own. The Italian woman that won the 1500 at Worlds breathes every 2 for a while on left and then changes to the right and breathes every 2.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:34:45 GMT

I think it depends on your turnover rate too. Mine is slow; and I feel air-deprived if I'm not breathing every right pull when trying to go fast.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Patrick W. Brundage — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:24:46 GMT

David, Good question and I've noticed the same ... except I'd say their breathing pattern is every 2 strokes (e.g., always breathe to the left or to the right). I grew up a distance swimmer training to breathe every 3 strokes as a classic bilateral pattern. Nowadays I do some variant of a 2-2-3-2-3-2, etc. pattern (e.g., breathe R,R,L,L,R,R, etc.). This seems to allow me to get more air and keep the bilateral component that I feel I need for stroke balance. In short course meters, my aim was to breath 2 to the right, then 3 or 4 to the left and that would take me through a lap. In swimming long course, I'll be more likely to do 4 breaths consistently to the same side before doing a 3 stroke count to then switch to breathe to the other side. I'm still stronger breathing to the left side, so I always have a little imbalance and breathe more to that side. The trick is to find the mix that works best for you.

RE: Distance Freestyle Breathing

Former Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:22:51 GMT

In races, I breathe every stroke (to the right). Gotta get the air. Any less and I slow down. In training, I'll maintain some form of bilateral breathing - like PB's pattern.