blue seventy

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:47:21 GMT

Do we have an estimate on prices for the new suits? I didn't see them on the site, and it didn't look like they were for sale yet.

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:15:28 GMT

I have aproblem with this ascertion. If the suits trapped air, then that would increase over all bouyancy but yet most swimmers were reporting being able to stay under water for longer, so much so that a lot of swimmers were reducing the number of SDKs being taken for fear of breaking the 15m mark. For me, I found that I was routinely surfacing at or slightly past the 15m mark on breaststroke starts and going past the 10m mark off turns with the B70 but being well short of those marks in my Fastskin. True some of that maybe the increased slide factor but I just don't buy the 'air trapping' arguement as an advantage. But then again, it's also :dedhorse::dedhorse: I believe the trapped air was noticable immediately upon jumping in the pool. I felt more bouyant in my B70. I too found much greater distance off the wall, particularly in breaststroke. But I think the flotation isn't a big factor here compared to the far better body position and "slipperiness" that increases speed. Compared to the balloon your lungs are when you are holding your breath the suit's bouyancy isn't that big. Swimming on the surface though I think the bouyancy is more noticable. I also noticed that my freestyle flip turns were closer to the surface than before.

RE: blue seventy

__steve__ — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:37:22 GMT

Does compression and bouancy benefit women more than men?

RE: blue seventy

Allen Stark — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:50:03 GMT

RE: blue seventy

pwolf66 — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:31:26 GMT

I disagree,the impermeable suits trapped air in a way that was very effective and will be difficult for a permeable suit to duplicate. I have aproblem with this ascertion. If the suits trapped air, then that would increase over all bouyancy but yet most swimmers were reporting being able to stay under water for longer, so much so that a lot of swimmers were reducing the number of SDKs being taken for fear of breaking the 15m mark. For me, I found that I was routinely surfacing at or slightly past the 15m mark on breaststroke starts and going past the 10m mark off turns with the B70 but being well short of those marks in my Fastskin. True some of that maybe the increased slide factor but I just don't buy the 'air trapping' arguement as an advantage. But then again, it's also :dedhorse::dedhorse:

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:49:57 GMT

While I think taking suits back to 1999 styles cuts is a dumb idea, if FINA does ban the bodysuits for us, then it should go into place immediately for all courses. People are saying "what about those that have swam scy meets in the suits while some of us haven't done" Well, the larger majority of people that haven't still have 4-5 months before their major scy meets(the zone meets and nationals) So, we have plenty of time to make adjustments in mental take and phyiscal training. Granted, I think FINA should allow masters to keep their suits but it's not up to me

RE: blue seventy

Midas — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:13:26 GMT

RE: blue seventy

Allen Stark — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:42:29 GMT

RE: blue seventy

The Fortress — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:35:32 GMT

I frankly think durability will be the biggest factor... I think on the women's side, at least, these suits will still be plenty fast. Nope, I agree with Chris on this one. Less coverage, no zipper, less compression, no float = slower. Period.

RE: blue seventy

Betsy — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:04:15 GMT

FINA rules apply to meters only. USMS is the only organization that conducts competition in yards. At the convention, we had a hot debate and a close vote on what to do about yards. Everyone agreed to follow FINA's recommendation on meter meets immediately. We debated whether to allow suits through SC Nationals or ban them at the same time as FINA. Because the SC season had just begun, a close vote recommended that we ban suits for yards at the same time. At that time, we expected a decision by the end of Sept. Now that we are so far into SCY season, I honestly don't know what the Rules committee will recommend. Somewhere on the Forum (in this thread?) there is a statement from Rules that tech suits are allowed for the Hour Swim through all of January. I am prepared mentally to change suits whenever the ruling states. I'm not, however, prepared with a substitute suit. I have a B70 and a TYR Tracer Lite, but the TYR is also ankle length.

RE: blue seventy

Midas — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:18:51 GMT

I am sure they will be slower. However: -- permeable material can certainly still trap air if it is hydrophobic enough (I have grabbed a hydrophobic filter in lab by mistake and tried in vain to force water thru it; it doesn't work even though the filter is porous). I suspect buoyancy (density) of the material was a bigger reason for flotation of the previous suits; I've always thought the air trapping thing was a red herring. Even practice suits will trap some air. -- maybe, though I hesitate to put limits on the abilities of material scientists and suit manufacturers to innovate. -- I definitely think coverage is maybe the most important factor of the new rules for men. But how significant is coverage of shins/calves? Some but not (say) 5%. It is just one datapoint but in a trials/finals format last summer I fast just as fast in jammers as in legskins; at the very least this implies (for me anyway) that the extra coverage is not a huge factor. -- less compression without the zipper; another important factor. For women, my gut feeling is that (a) loss of buoyancy of the material and (b) less compression will be the most important factors. Just my :2cents: I frankly think durability will be the biggest factor... I think on the women's side, at least, these suits will still be plenty fast.

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:45:57 GMT

It's not much (no pricing yet, and only small pictures), but in case anybody didn't see it B70 has a page with some additional about the new suits: www.blueseventy.com/nerotx I wonder how much slower these suits will be, if at all, for women? It sounds like the new suits will still offer compression and significantly reduced drag. I suppose no one knows for sure but the new suits should be slower than existing B70s, even for women because: - permeable fabric should prevent trapping of air against skin, eliminating flotation - "textile" fabric may have higher drag than rubber-coated fabric - less coverage of skin due to knee length maximum - elimination of zipper could reduce coverage to allow the suit to be put on without a zipper

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:56:27 GMT

I know this has been answered a million times, but I can't keep track of the numerous Tech Suit threads and I confess to being confused about the "pre-2007 suit" exemption, yadda yadda yadda... So for the men we are going to be allowed jammers, even if the shoulder-to-ankle suits were legal pre-2007?

RE: blue seventy

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:57:46 GMT

I suppose no one knows for sure but the new suits should be slower than existing B70s, even for women because: - permeable fabric should prevent trapping of air against skin, eliminating flotation - "textile" fabric may have higher drag than rubber-coated fabric - less coverage of skin due to knee length maximum - elimination of zipper could reduce coverage to allow the suit to be put on without a zipper I am sure they will be slower. However: -- permeable material can certainly still trap air if it is hydrophobic enough (I have grabbed a hydrophobic filter in lab by mistake and tried in vain to force water thru it; it doesn't work even though the filter is porous). I suspect buoyancy (density) of the material was a bigger reason for flotation of the previous suits; I've always thought the air trapping thing was a red herring. Even practice suits will trap some air. -- maybe, though I hesitate to put limits on the abilities of material scientists and suit manufacturers to innovate. -- I definitely think coverage is maybe the most important factor of the new rules for men. But how significant is coverage of shins/calves? Some but not (say) 5%. It is just one datapoint but in a trials/finals format last summer I fast just as fast in jammers as in legskins; at the very least this implies (for me anyway) that the extra coverage is not a huge factor. -- less compression without the zipper; another important factor. For women, my gut feeling is that (a) loss of buoyancy of the material and (b) less compression will be the most important factors. Just my :2cents:

RE: blue seventy

Patrick W. Brundage — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:05:19 GMT

Bodysuits will be legal for masters until FINA issues a ruling. The meeting is suppose to be Jan. 16-17. Bummer, I was hoping for one more SCY B70 nero comp meet on Jan 24th! As far as I know, you CAN do a flip turn in *** and fly, as long as you touch the wall with two hands first. Yes, you can. My daughter's first 50 fly as an 8 year old she did exactly that. The S&T judges didn't really know what to do -- a hand went up, a hand went down, a call was made, a referee overruled and she was legal.

RE: blue seventy

Betsy — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:08:53 GMT

You might get to swim the meet on the 24th in the tech suit. After the FINA meeting, how long will it take to get the official announcement? The FINA ruling will apply only to meters. The USMS Rules Committee will consult and make a recommendation for USMS in regard to yards. I don't know then if anyone else has to approve the Rule Comm recommendation. Who knows when the final ruling will be issued?!?!

RE: blue seventy

Allen Stark — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:37:44 GMT

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:45:37 GMT

Agree with Chris - suits will not make much of a difference. I'm glad to see the tech suit manufacturers are moving into the post-2009 era. Hopefully masters swimming can (ahem) follow suit. Well - you have a good point, but I would like to see your response if they tried to make dolphin kicks for backstroke illegal :) (which one can make a pretty good argument for .. it has nothing to do with actually swimming backstroke)

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:31:02 GMT

Can someone post a link to retailers please, especially those that give USMS discount. www.swimandtri.com They are in Knoxville.

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:15:01 GMT

Ande, Do we know when the FINA meeting is in January? Are our bodysuits legal until FINA rules? Patrick Bodysuits will be legal for masters until FINA issues a ruling. The meeting is suppose to be Jan. 16-17. After that, the suits will either be declared illegal for us(boo) and legal for masters only. I am glad the Blueseventy is going to have a legal suit because I wasn't going to send $260 to speedo for their suit.

RE: blue seventy

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:52:51 GMT

As far as I know, you CAN do a flip turn in *** and fly, as long as you touch the wall with two hands first. Think how much faster we would be without the two hand touch first... Keep the two hand touch for the finish but modify the BR and Fly turns like they did for the backstrokers...

RE: blue seventy

Karen Duggan — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:51:30 GMT

Quick, quick, put the worms back in the can. Oh! Oh! There's another one! Get it! (insert can of worms smiley here) THIS topic could get very ugly indeed- taking out the fly kick in backstroke. Mr. Ehoch you like to live life on the edge. :D

RE: blue seventy

ande — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:41:28 GMT

Here is the USMS Statement on Suits from 10/11/09 says the FINA "meeting in mid-January" I was curious if a particular suit was legal so I wrote rules@usms.org on Friday Kathy Casey sent me the following list, which I repasted at. U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster Ande, Do we know when the FINA meeting is in January? Are our bodysuits legal until FINA rules? Patrick

RE: blue seventy

Glenn — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:29:44 GMT

First (and only) time I saw someone do a flip turn in the fly was in '63. He got DQ'd. Was a darn good flyer too, 53.8 in high school.

RE: blue seventy

aquageek — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:24:51 GMT

Can someone post a link to retailers please, especially those that give USMS discount.