Tech Suit Compromise

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:49:39 GMT

I suggested the Yards-Meters compromise at "Convention" and was beat down by the rules committee. How about a doctor's exemption stating that the compression of the tech suits is necessary to alleviate lower back and knee pain? I'm sure there's a medical marijuana doctor out there somewhere willing to write some Blue 70 prescriptions.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:22:05 GMT

Although I am generally anti-tech suit I don't see a problem with letting you all wear them through this SCY season.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:12:36 GMT

What do you mean? 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 5280 feet or 1760 yards to a mile. One horsepower is 550 ft-lbs/sec. What could be more logical than that? :) Didn't an inch originate from the width of the kings thumb??? I like SCY's because i am a turner not a swimmer...

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Patrick W. Brundage — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:21:44 GMT

I still say short course yards is a joke. Come on, folks, the difference between SCY racing and SCM racing is minimal. We race a lot in SCY because a lot of / most of our pools are in SCY. People around the world race a lot in SCM because many of their pools are in SCM. If you voted for Jimmy Carter (didn't he make a big 'go metric' push), then you can continue to protest our penchant for SCY. If you're not out lobbying your politicians and school boards and municipalities and so on to bring this country onto the metric system, then all your whining about SCM vs. SCY is wasted because this is a big cultural and economic issue that ain't likely to change anytime soon. On the positive side, though, this is one of those vibrant cultural differences that makes us somewhat unique -- are you all saying you want a world of bland, homogenized countries with no differences from one place to the next? We should embrace our quirky American love of a measurement system that has relatively little apparent logic to it and that was a gift, I believe, from the very nation we rebelled against! You don't have to have a valid passport and visa to care about what the rest of the world does...Just because I have a passport doesn't mean I think we should do everything the rest of the world does. WORD!

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:34:42 GMT

Couldn't it be argued that the mid-season change favors certain regions over others? For example, between June 1 and the present date, I'm not aware of any USMS SCY meets in Tennessee or Georgia where times could have counted for top ten. I imagine there may be other states/regions where this is also the case. The time when the ban goes into effect will be very important. Many will have BSB (before suit ban) times and ASB (after suit ban) times. Sure, I don't say its completely fair, although I don't think too many people -- maybe none at all -- have rested/tapered for a SCY meet yet. And if we KEPT the suits for SCY that would also favor some regions over others. I know some LMSCs who hardly have any meets, and some of those swimmers swim in USA-S meets instead. They won't be able to wear the suits in those meets. So in fairness -- and to be consistent with USA-S -- maybe we should ban them as soon as FINA decides (if they do). I think there is logic in being consistent with USA-S when possible, but all LMSCs are not created equal. If we went down that road, we'd tell SoCal to stop having so many meets, and to stop using all those LCM pools...I think every resident must have one in their backyard or something... The NOVA age-groupers just swam in a big meet last weekend. Amazingly, there were plenty of PBs and great swims, even in the post-suit era. Imagine that, life goes on. (I'm not trying to pick on you Beth, even though the sting from the 'Bama comments have yet to fade. :))

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

knelson — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:32:59 GMT

We should embrace our quirky American love of a measurement system that has relatively little apparent logic to it What do you mean? 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 5280 feet or 1760 yards to a mile. One horsepower is 550 ft-lbs/sec. What could be more logical than that? :)

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:46:38 GMT

I do, however, find it hard to believe that any LMSC has less SCY meets than the Southeastern LMSC. For the 2009 to 2010 season, we will have two. From what I've heard, there are some LMSCs that don't have any USMS meets within their borders.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

elise526 — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:03:37 GMT

Sure, I don't say its completely fair, although I don't think too many people -- maybe none at all -- have rested/tapered for a SCY meet yet. And if we KEPT the suits for SCY that would also favor some regions over others. I know some LMSCs who hardly have any meets, and some of those swimmers swim in USA-S meets instead. They won't be able to wear the suits in those meets. So in fairness -- and to be consistent with USA-S -- maybe we should ban them as soon as FINA decides (if they do). I think there is logic in being consistent with USA-S when possible, but all LMSCs are not created equal. If we went down that road, we'd tell SoCal to stop having so many meets, and to stop using all those LCM pools...I think every resident must have one in their backyard or something... The NOVA age-groupers just swam in a big meet last weekend. Amazingly, there were plenty of PBs and great swims, even in the post-suit era. Imagine that, life goes on. (I'm not trying to pick on you Beth, even though the sting from the 'Bama comments have yet to fade. :)) Chris - You are too nice to pick on anybody! Can't argue against the points you make. I do, however, find it hard to believe that any LMSC has less SCY meets than the Southeastern LMSC. For the 2009 to 2010 season, we will have two. Saw the results from the state high school meet and a number of top swimmers were just tenths off the record they set last year. I know this must have been quite frustrating for them. On the bright side of things, kids fast enough to be setting records will be able to swim in college and with specific training, can expect to get faster than the times they swam BSB. Good chance I won't get to do any meets in a B-70 or LZR. I'm trying to look at this as a positive thing somehow. I suppose I can take solace in the fact that my masters best times were done 6 years ago in a aquablade.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:56:07 GMT

The fact that the majority of the elite world wants to swim here in college nullifies your argument completely. Word. Go back over the years and look at meet results from NCAAs, US Nationals, US Open, etc etc. Look at the number of fur'ners who swam at these meets. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a foreign swimmer with an above-average IQ over the age of 18 who doesn't understand SCY times.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:32:15 GMT

Oh Wook - You know we probably will... But sure is good to have another opportunity to address the fact that NO ONE in the world cares or recognizes the American created short course yards meets & times! HAHAHAHA....how do ya really feel Ahelee? lol

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:09:28 GMT

I agree, Tom. No reason to leave the door half open. Let FINA make their decision and then USMS should follow it immediately. The idea of having different suits allowed for different courses is, frankly, bizarre. As much as I hate to agree with people that want us to go back to briefs and jammers, I think we should have the same suit rules for all three courses.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:35:52 GMT

Quote: Originally Posted by aquageek The fact that the majority of the elite world wants to swim here in college nullifies your argument completely. Word. Go back over the years and look at meet results from NCAAs, US Nationals, US Open, etc etc. Look at the number of fur'ners who swam at these meets. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a foreign swimmer with an above-average IQ over the age of 18 who doesn't understand SCY times. Speaking here as a foreign swimmer coming to the US (and it was the same for most foreign swimmers I knew / know) : Swimming YARDS is a necessary evil when coming to train in the US. All foreign swimmer get a "phd" in time conversion during the first year of swimming here, but nobody enjoys it (the yards part that is). Besides the straight math of time conversion, it is very difficult for foreign swimmers to truly believe the depth and speed of college swimming. There are many US college swimmers who would make foreign National teams, but they sometimes don't even bother swimming long-course or are terrible at it - you just don't believe the times are real when you first get here. That's why I really liked the every 4 year meters meet at NCAAs, but they dropped that ... and after 20 years, I have still not come to terms with swimming a 500 yards Free instead of a 400, maybe I will get to embrace it in my 50s or 60s

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

aquageek — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:48:51 GMT

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Karen Duggan — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:17:22 GMT

Allen- Bottom right drawer, baby blanket- right next to it is my B70. Gotta be a coincidence that you made that analogy!!! :D The baby blanket has lasted almost 40 years. I don't think the B70 would fare so well.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:48:56 GMT

What suit did you wear that was illegal? The b70 is perfectly legal for us. I wore the B70 and loved it...It will be illegal unfortunately. btw- Question for those in the know: What happens when you show up for your heat in an illegal suit. Can you swim and get DQ'd? Not be allowed to swim or do they arrest you on the spot?

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

knelson — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:35:52 GMT

NO ONE in the world cares or recognizes the American created short course yards meets & times! Good point. Let's allow fins and paddles, too, since no one else cares :) Seriously, people in the US do care. Most of us think in terms of SCY. When we swim SCM or LCM most of us think "I wonder what that converts to ?" For now the majority of pools in the U.S. are yards, so I think we're stuck with SCY competition for the forseeable future. I don't think we need to make it a freak show just because no one else is using this course length.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:25:07 GMT

As much as I hate to agree with people that want us to go back to briefs and jammers, I think we should have the same suit rules for all three courses. Oh Wook - You know we probably will... But sure is good to have another opportunity to address the fact that NO ONE in the world cares or recognizes the American created short course yards meets & times!

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Glenn — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:24:45 GMT

Eric, I'm 60 and I don't embrace 500 yards free!! In high school in the early 60's the long distance event in freestyle was 400 yards. Sometime in the late (I think) 60's it changed to 500. I don't like that distance. 400 is nice and even. You go two hundred, then another 200, piece of cake. But a 500 is uneven. OK, I said it and now I feel better!:applaud:

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Karen Duggan — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:19:34 GMT

I like the same suit rules for all 3 courses as well. Imagine how much more we would have to complain about! "Well, if I could have worn my B70 for long course I would have got a better time." :blah: :blah:

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

knelson — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:06:59 GMT

I think that everyone needs to move on from these tech suits. Enough already. I agree, Tom. No reason to leave the door half open. Let FINA make their decision and then USMS should follow it immediately. The idea of having different suits allowed for different courses is, frankly, bizarre.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:51:17 GMT

Q: who cares what the rest of the world does? A: anyone with a valid passport and a visa card. countries that drive on the left: Anguilla Antigua & Barbuda Australia Bahamas Bangladesh Barbados Bermuda Bhutan Bophuthatswana Botswana British Virgin Islands Brunei Cayman Islands Channel Islands Ciskei Cyprus Dominica Falkland Islands Fiji Grenada Guyana Hong Kong India Indonesia Ireland Jamaica Japan Kenya Lesotho Macau Malawi Malaysia Malta Mauritius Montserrat Mozambique Namibia Nepal New Zealand Pakistan Papua New Guinea St. Vincent & Grenadines Seychelles Sikkim Singapore Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa Sri Lanka St Kitts & Nevis St. Helena St. Lucia Surinam Swaziland Tanzania Thailand Tonga Trinidad & Tobago Uganda United Kingdom US Virgin Islands Venda Zambia Zimbabwe Dave, you don't have time to be wasting with that much useless trivia when you need to be swimming miles upon miles upon thousands of miles for the channel crossing. Now, get your butt back to the pool/lake/ocean/flume...and SWIM MAN SWIM!

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

elise526 — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:49:04 GMT

Easy enough: by saying "stop." Life isn't always fair. There will be the usual suspects in the Top Ten either way. Five years from now -- heck, by this time next year -- no one will remember or care exactly when we stopped. The fate of the free world hardly hangs in the balance here. Suits, no suits, January, June...whatever. Let's just swim. Couldn't it be argued that the mid-season change favors certain regions over others? For example, between June 1 and the present date, I'm not aware of any USMS SCY meets in Tennessee or Georgia where times could have counted for top ten. I imagine there may be other states/regions where this is also the case. The time when the ban goes into effect will be very important. Many will have BSB (before suit ban) times and ASB (after suit ban) times.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:47:41 GMT

Who cares what the rest of the world does. Should we all start driving on the left side of the road because most of the English -speaking world does? Q: who cares what the rest of the world does? A: anyone with a valid passport and a visa card. countries that drive on the left: Anguilla Antigua & Barbuda Australia Bahamas Bangladesh Barbados Bermuda Bhutan Bophuthatswana Botswana British Virgin Islands Brunei Cayman Islands Channel Islands Ciskei Cyprus Dominica Falkland Islands Fiji Grenada Guyana Hong Kong India Indonesia Ireland Jamaica Japan Kenya Lesotho Macau Malawi Malaysia Malta Mauritius Montserrat Mozambique Namibia Nepal New Zealand Pakistan Papua New Guinea St. Vincent & Grenadines Seychelles Sikkim Singapore Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa Sri Lanka St Kitts & Nevis St. Helena St. Lucia Surinam Swaziland Tanzania Thailand Tonga Trinidad & Tobago Uganda United Kingdom US Virgin Islands Venda Zambia Zimbabwe

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:40:42 GMT

Shouldn't that be "Streakageek?" :bolt: If meekymouse went "streaking" it wouldn't turn a single head, including the 90+ women.

RE: Tech Suit Compromise

Former Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:09:22 GMT

I take offense to your insinuation that I call swimming a joke in the USA. I do call YARDS a joke but never the swimming. Please don't scramble my words any more than they are already! Ahelee, please don't pay any attention to crankymeek's scrambling of your words. He is need of attention, so he does his best to get people to respond to his senseless banter.