New way to "cheat "

RE: New way to "cheat "

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:27:44 GMT

Well maybe we should go back to old backstroke and make all dolphin kicks illegal as well ..... They were never illegal. I've used them my entire swimming career.

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:08:39 GMT

This is just another thing for swimmers trapped in the past to gripe about. As the beatnik Maynard G. Krebbs often used to say in the 1960s TV sitcom "Dobie" ......"You Rang?......" :anim_coffee: D2

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:53:25 GMT

Interesting. I will be curious to see if people will experiment with these to try to get the most out of them. Back in the early 1970's there was, for a brief period, a fad in track sprinting wherein a sprinter used starting blocks but didn't get all the way down like you see now. It was a semi-standing start and was actually fairly fast, although not as fast as the all-the-way-down starts. Given the size limitation of a swimmer's starting block, this might actually be a useful technique to experiment with since it didn't need the same area as an all-the-way-down start. -LBJ

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:20:15 GMT

So instead they need to give specifications for what is allowed in a suit, and then suit manufacturers can innovate all they want within those guidelines. Which is exactly what they did. You're just not happy with what they decided, just as others would not have been happy allowing wetsuits. I mean "swimskins." Well maybe we should go back to old backstroke and make all dolphin kicks illegal as well .....

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:59:07 GMT

(It's not quite the same issue as the tech suits, where the swimmers have different suits.) I heard this before as a reason to ban the suits and it's just silly. So if FINA declared that everybody was to wear a Jaked suit, we would be ok to use suits ? All new innovations in swimming will affect different swimmers in different ways. The new blocks will help some swimmers more than others - that does not make them wrong (I was joking with the cheating headline). Butterfly kicks in *** help poor breaststrokers more than good ones. So what ..

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:16:50 GMT

The blocks look cool. I can't wait to try them. Tech suits/starting blocks= apples/oranges. More like apples/apples for the shorter events.

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:19:20 GMT

The blocks look cool. I can't wait to try them. Tech suits/starting blocks= apples/oranges.

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:25:03 GMT

YES, the block WEDGE allows faster RT's & further dives, swimmers have faster first 25's Then they should be banned. These blocks will give an unfair advantage to some swimmers. We must have a level playing field. Bring back the starting blocks of the 1990's!

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:23:03 GMT

It's hard to see how it could be called cheating if everyone in the race has the same "assistive advantage." (It's not quite the same issue as the tech suits, where the swimmers have different suits.)

RE: New way to "cheat "

Gail Roper — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:57:51 GMT

It was interesting to notice that both Cameron VDB and Leisel Jones did the dolphin kick before the breaststroke pull down. This is definitly faster. Both broke the WR. Push off the wall with one hand over the other, at the end of the glide, move your hands apart and do the kick. This is legal if you start the pull down by moving you hands apart. Move them so the arms are still in streamline with your shoulders. Be careful not to do another kick on the pull down.

RE: New way to "cheat "

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:00:35 GMT

I love the look and idea of the new blocks - can't wait to try them out. But I imagine it will be a long while before pool operators purchase the new blocks for every single competition pool.

RE: New way to "cheat "

aquageek — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:32:50 GMT

This is just another thing for swimmers trapped in the past to gripe about.

RE: New way to "cheat "

pdjang — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:25:52 GMT

Those starting blocks are awesome!!! I used them when I swam at the Canadian Nationals in Toronto last May.:banana::canada: I swam with Glenn at Toronto and the blocks are adjustable (forward and backward for relative leg length and body position). They were used in the shallow end of the pool and not in the deep end as I recall. I would think that one would need some training/practice before one could take full advantage. Personally, I could not discern a difference in acceleration or distance, but it deserves study. If the new block does provide an assistive advantage, would FINA follow the swim skin logic and ban this device? Just a thought on devices in general: compared to the old pools (wood pens without lane lines set in the ocean or a lake), our newest pools which are designed to minimize turbulence provide a significant advance (to all swimmers). Could modern pools be considered cheating?

RE: New way to "cheat "

Glenn — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:56:01 GMT

Chris, It doesn't slow down the meet at all to readjust the blocks. You just lift and slide to what ever position you want, it takes 2 seconds. The blocks are expensive........the number that sticks in my head is $2,000 per, which is why they only had them at one end of he pool for SCM at Toronto last May. I don't usually do a track start, but these blocks make it much easier and natural to put one foot back.

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:29:37 GMT

I heard this before as a reason to ban the suits and it's just silly. So if FINA declared that everybody was to wear a Jaked suit, we would be ok to use suits ? All new innovations in swimming will affect different swimmers in different ways. The new blocks will help some swimmers more than others - that does not make them wrong (I was joking with the cheating headline). Butterfly kicks in *** help poor breaststrokers more than good ones. So what .. It may or may not be silly, but it is, at least, one of the issues that were raised -- and that doesn't apply in the same way to pool equipment. In all honesty, I couldn't care less what suit the guy in the next lane is wearing, and I'm not in the least bit interested in another thread on the merits (or lack thereof) of tech suits. But I don't see the comparison to starting blocks, technique changes, lanes lines etc. (Actually, I was resonding to a comment that raised the question.)

RE: New way to "cheat "

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:47:43 GMT

I heard this before as a reason to ban the suits and it's just silly. So if FINA declared that everybody was to wear a Jaked suit, we would be ok to use suits ? Well, they can't give preference to one manufacturer over another (can you imagine the howls from Speedo?). So instead they need to give specifications for what is allowed in a suit, and then suit manufacturers can innovate all they want within those guidelines. Which is exactly what they did. You're just not happy with what they decided, just as others would not have been happy allowing wetsuits. I mean "swimskins." I was timing at the girls state meet last night and everyone was using them. Each girl would adjust it to their own preference. My daughter swam with them today in an age-group meet and loved it. She definitely felt more stable and had a nice explosive start. If they were ever held a bit long for a start, she said she felt strong and wasn't going to wiggle or move on the block. Pretty cool to have them at an age group meet; I haven't heard about any pools in this area having them. Does it slow down the meet to have everyone (re-)adjust the blocks? Guess I'm going to eventually have to learn a track start...I didn't feel at a disadvantage before but these blocks seem like they would tilt the scales a bit too much against the old grab starts.

RE: New way to "cheat "

swimsuit addict — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:30:59 GMT

Are these blocks adjustable, like in track? On the telecast, it looked like some of the the wedges were positioned nearer the back of the block than others, but I never saw any of the swimmers changing them.

RE: New way to "cheat "

coffeegirl — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:26:05 GMT

I was timing at the girls state meet last night and everyone was using them. Each girl would adjust it to their own preference. My daughter swam with them today in an age-group meet and loved it. She definitely felt more stable and had a nice explosive start. If they were ever held a bit long for a start, she said she felt strong and wasn't going to wiggle or move on the block.

RE: New way to "cheat "

ande — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:10:44 GMT

YES, the block WEDGE allows faster RT's & further dives, swimmers have faster first 25's Does the device help with their speed?

RE: New way to "cheat "

Bobinator — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:33:54 GMT

Maybe we can use this for leverage to bring the fast suits back!

RE: New way to "cheat "

Former Member — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:48:33 GMT

is it cheating? I wrote about those blocks at: www.usms.org/.../showpost.php Does the device help with their speed?

RE: New way to "cheat "

Glenn — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:50:13 GMT

Those starting blocks are awesome!!! I used them when I swam at the Canadian Nationals in Toronto last May.:banana::canada:

RE: New way to "cheat "

ande — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:35:57 GMT

is it cheating? I wrote about those blocks at: www.usms.org/.../showpost.php

RE: New way to "cheat "

orca1946 — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:04:23 GMT

Secret tip : eat more so you float better !! It's worked for me for 63 years !:bolt: