Video technique review

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:10:11 GMT

I'm not a mathmatician, it would be difficult for me to quantify distance of stroke between the clips of those two days. I meant the video you posted 2.5 years ago when you thrashed through the water. You made up for your lack of technique with strong turnover. Have a SCM set with this theme? One without fins, buoys, and paddles I don’t have. 8x25 done as 12.5 sprint, 12.5 ez on 1:00 Do that right after warm up. You want your technique to be perfect, but you want to go max effort for those 4-6 strokes. At the end of the set, you should not feel tired like you would if you had sprinted, so you can take less rest (I think Fort does them on 45), but you want to be completely rested for each one. It is also a waste of time to do the set when you are tired already. As an aside, I find that set frustrating. Since the goal is perfect all out, if you pay attention, you rarely accomplish the goal. Your streamline might be too short causing a deep breakout, or too long resulting in breaking the surface before starting the breakout, or too much rotation, or too little, or not really getting a good hold on the water, or kick amplitude being too big slowing down tempo of kick and turnover and the list goes on. I got that set (originally) from ehoch, it is not a qbrain original. Fort uses variants frequently in her workouts thread if you want other ideas.

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:57:55 GMT

Fixed most of it. Thanks for the help. Bilateral: http://youtu.be/BnQPJ50SJus BL every 2: BL R BL - YouTube BR every 2: http://youtu.be/DpRSlQm55Rc Do 25M then breath afterwards: http://youtu.be/wmLk7Mg2Z04 Will work on it some more and see in about 6 weeks for my next meet:) You breath to the right better than to the left. When racing breath just to the right. When you are not breathing, your head should be still, looking straight down. If you watch your bilateral video you can see that you head is rotating with your body some on non-breath strokes. But you are right, that is much better body position. That was quick work. Notice your right hand drifts outward as you rotate to your left. The entry position looks good, but you don't really want the hand drifting wide, so as you rotate, try letting your body press your arm deeper instead of wider. This will keep you in a tighter streamline while setting your hand position up for an earlier catch (your shoulder and elbow will rise up as you rotate on the right and initiate your pull, but your hand will be left in a lower position allowing an earlier catch). If your hand is drifting wide to allow for a comfortable catch position because of your shoulder, discard the above advice. Your turn over is much slower than the initial videos you posted, so I would guess that your stroke has improved but the slow down in turn over was not offset by the increased distance per stroke. Work on technique and speed at the same time by doing 12.5yd sprints with lots of rest early in your workout. Also related to your turnover, your kick was too big with your foot coming out of the water quiet a bit. Decrease the amplitude of your kick, which should allow for a faster tempo. Work on this faster tempo kick with your faster turnover on the 12.5s.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:31:02 GMT

You breath to the right better than to the left. When racing breath just to the right. Interesting, I just started breathing right about a year ago. I learned breathing left to accommodate the left shoulder, but left shoulder these days is happier When you are not breathing, your head should be still, looking straight down. If you watch your bilateral video you can see that you head is rotating with your body some on non-breath strokes. I noticed that too. I was hurting for air in that shot though, didn’t rest before it. :blush: as you rotate, try letting your body press your arm deeper instead of wider. This will keep you in a tighter streamline while setting your hand position up for an earlier catch (your shoulder and elbow will rise up as you rotate on the right and initiate your pull, but your hand will be left in a lower position allowing an earlier catch). Right as this happens, where you mention setting up for catch, I believe I may also have a kick, rotation, and catch timing issue. If your hand is drifting wide to allow for a comfortable catch position because of your shoulder, discard the above advice. No, it’s the other shoulder. Didn’t know this was happening until I saw it, must be counterbalancing something off. Your turn over is much slower than the initial videos you posted, so I would guess that your stroke has improved but the slow down in turn over was not offset by the increased distance per stroke. I'm not a mathmatician, it would be difficult for me to quantify distance of stroke between the clips of those two days. I can’t even remember the effort level, but I think the recent one was less effort because I was concentrating on high hips and feet while keeping everything straight. In fact, I find this part the most challenging and very easy to loose. It's the old-dog, new trick dilemma of not swimming as a kid I guess. Work on technique and speed at the same time by doing 12.5yd sprints with lots of rest early in your workout. Have a SCM set with this theme? One without fins, buoys, and paddles I don’t have. Also related to your turnover, your kick was too big with your foot coming out of the water quiet a bit. Decrease the amplitude of your kick, which should allow for a faster tempo. Work on this faster tempo kick with your faster turnover on the 12.5s. Got it! Time to rock and roll, thanks for the feedback:):)

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:55:24 GMT

Hmm, interesting. How can aerobic be improved in weeks? Start from an unfit state, train aerobic for 3 weeks consistently, your aerobic capacity will have increased dramatically.

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:19:42 GMT

Jimi must have posted that in another thread, but aerobic can be built in weeks if you have the desire, not months. Speed on the other hand, takes a little longer than whatever you think it will take. Hmm, interesting. How can aerobic be improved in weeks?

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:19:35 GMT

6.10.12.free7.wmv - YouTube Got hips up several inches by pushing down forward of center buoyancy. From this angle I notice there’s an excessive loss of glide after each propulsion (like brakes). When I look at this angle: crooked.wmv - YouTube I can see why. I think I do swim differently when filmed, and my neck and upper back has been stiff lately which both may be factors. But this has got to stop - lol! Hmm, interesting. How can aerobic be improved in weeks? Not certain about a few weeks but Mr. Thornton once discussed a workout targeting 200 duration's, which as far as I'm concerned is aerobic: 5 sets of 8x50 on 1:00 Set#1 - o=ez, e=200pace+2sec Set#2 - o=ez, e=200pace+1sec Set#3 - o=ez, e=200pace Set#4 - o=ez, e=200pace -1sec Set#5 - o=ez, e=200pace -2sec

RE: Video technique review

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:33:25 GMT

Will work on it some more and see in about 6 weeks for my next meet:) Greenville? :D See you there! And, please introduce yourself, so I can put the :) with _steve_. :agree: (Although, I now know what you look like underwater...)

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 05:54:24 GMT

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:24:18 GMT

(free) To me, my upper body seems OK but my feet are too deep. Your feet are deep because of your body position. You can fix your feet by kicking harder or fixing your body position. One takes thought, the other energy. Elongate your neck, it should be flat. This will leave you looking even more down than you are now and feel wrong. Do it anyway, and don't swim in lanes without marking on the bottom. Your glute cheeks should be at the waters surface (I think butt is censored). Work on maintaining your body alignment during breathing. You body is a twisted mess on that breath in the video. The problem starts with your head, which causes you back to twist and your hips to drop. You start looking down at the bottom of the pool, do not look forward, do not raise your head, do not do anything with your neck muscles. Let the rotation of your body bring your mouth to the surface initially. Once you have mastered keeping your neck straight so your body position does not fall apart through the breath, just use your neck to end the breath sooner, but until then just let body rotation dictate breath duration. I think you are rotating late, but it might be the breath is the best cycle on the video, but just fixing your breathing should make a big difference in your swimming.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 02:07:39 GMT

Thank you Mike! A few years ago you helped me make big improvements with my free, I'll try to add to this.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Fri, 08 Jun 2012 05:29:47 GMT

HI, I suddenly stopped dropping time in free 2 years ago and have been working hard trying to get back. I'm getting close, but perhaps there's something I'm doing wrong. Also started other strokes since then. Using 50M LC times, though I don't practice in such a course, it makes for a good comparison: 2010/06/05 - 30.87 (nearest lane) Despite armslap and early fatigue, this is still my best swim 2011/06/25 - 31.14 (had zero speed) 2012/06/02 - 30.93 (felt good the first half then made the mistake of looking forward twice) Here are some clips (the pool is turbid but it should work): fr rt frt side 0.125.wmv - YouTube (free) To me, my upper body seems OK but my feet are too deep. 6.6.12 kick.wmv - YouTube (kick) Seems too mechanical? fly - YouTube (fly) 6.6.12 bk.wmv - YouTube (back) 6.6.12 fr.bk fast.wmv - YouTube 25 free fast and 25 meters back (out of breath) Please don't hold back on the critisism Thank you:)

RE: Video technique review

That Guy — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:46:35 GMT

Rotated hand slightly, undulated a little more, used a little more force and did get out of water a little more but for some reason my head thrusts fwd/dwn on 2nd beat kick during recovery. My head bounces twice instead of once - strange. YouTube- DSCF0788.AVI There's definite improvement in that clip!

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:18:10 GMT

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:47:15 GMT

It probably shouldn't be your #1 priority (I think undulation probably is) but you should try doing the recovery with your palms facing backwards or backwards and in if the wrist is bent, right now, at least with your right arm the palms are facing down and forward, which will tend to result in your elbow bending.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:43:06 GMT

Am I doing fly correctly? Looks a little unusual to me YouTube- DSCF0779.AVI

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 06:49:39 GMT

When comparing to the non-cliche clip (thanks), in addition to the kick, might also be related to too narrow of undulation. I also see inward splashes at late recovery in mine, where the pro's show splash later at entry. It really didn't feel that resistive up front, but if I plan to do this event in a 50, I'll definately have to breath and get higher. Thanks for the input, the vid was resourceful

RE: Video technique review

That Guy — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 02:44:21 GMT

Am I doing fly correctly? Looks a little unusual to me YouTube- DSCF0779.AVI Your body seems to remain kind of low in the water. I think you need to kick harder so that your shoulders get higher on recovery. Then you won't be fighting against the surface as much, your arms will reach farther forward with less effort, and you'll find breathing comes easier. It's cliche to post Phelps videos, so here's a Cavic video instead. See how these guys all get their shoulders above the surface on recovery so their arms don't have to fight to get forward. YouTube- Cavic breaks Phelps record, from Universal Sports

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:58:16 GMT

OK, I ignored your advice as you advised, but thanks. Yeah, my kick is still too wide, and I seem to be better at shorter events, but I think the being drop-dead part about sprinting is partly due to conditioning (lack of) though. I need to start focusing on longer races and other strokes, one set I plan to use this summer for the 200 is this: 5 sets of 8x50 on 1:00 Set#1 - o=ez, e=200pace+2sec Set#2 - o=ez, e=200pace+1sec Set#3 - o=ez, e=200pace Set#4 - o=ez, e=200pace -1sec Set#5 - o=ez, e=200pace -2sec I also did a full length (25M) of fly for the first time and timed it at about 16 sec, so I might have some potential with the stroke, but I also tried back and br. The back, I couldn't even maintain - it made all sorts of part's ache, and the br was 27 sec. I haven't figured out how to breath with fly yet but I plan to do a length more often to get it down since my body does seem to accept this stroke more naturally. As for training, right now I seem to respond better with about 1500-2000M/Y a day. Comparing to this spring when I bumped my daily distance up to about 3000 without any effect makes me content with a bit more than 1500 a day. Skill is another thing, I didn't have the typical swimming background so little things like turns, starts, breakouts, pacing, etc have a drastic impact on my performance, and if I'm not rested or nervous I'll screw it up. One more area that I need to consider is race preparation, not swimming related but planning and organizing. I haven't seemed to get it right yet. I have done 6 meets total, they were all this year, not one did I manage to sleep more than 4 hours the night prior, except Friday night before Atlanta's first event where I got about 7 hours but I had to drive 5 before the event. Some nights before were just 1-3 hours of sleep. For me, sleep effects my performance considerably no matter what I do. For the 50 fr LCM, I am certain I can do it sub 29 in the right state of mind and a little luck, I just have to prove it to myself.

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 05:38:54 GMT

Steve, I don't understand technical aspects of swimming so please ignore any advice I might try to offer. But I am right at your speed so I might be able to offer a little perspective. My times are 28 in the 50 and 2:21 in the 200. This tells me that you are a drop dead sprinter and/or could drop a lot of time in your 200 by just going to work on aerobic sets. In one year I went from being able to swim 10 100s on the 2:15 to being able to do 20 on the 1:45. During that time I dropped one second on my 50, 5 seconds on the 100, and 20 seconds on the 200. I don't know if this your idea of fun though. In retrospect, I would have dropped more time on the 50 by just doing 25s and 50s and hanging around working on technique and turns and starts. It also supports the notion that aerobic conditioning might be a waste of time for sprinters. But the 50 will never be my thing while it could be yours. You look like you have some real talent and potential for improvement. The other thing I find interesting is that your kick time is about 10 seconds faster than mine per 25. My kick power is absolutely horrible. This leads me to believe that your powerful legs are not helping your speed and might even be hurting it. One thing I can naturally do is drag my legs behind to keep me afloat and streamlined. Do you ever use a pull bouy? I hate them myself. I don't know if that would strain your shoulder.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:11:01 GMT

Hand entry changed a little. YouTube- 25m hand entry.AVI

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 01:15:31 GMT

Thanks Q, The faster swimmers also had better starts. I was moving along good until I took a breath at around 28m. I recall I had no success in getting any air so I had to take 2nd. These two breath attempts put me in dept so I had to take more. By then my arms/torso started locking up, felt like I was being shot with poison darts from the stands lol. Sprint hand entry and LCM hypoxic work in order.:)

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 13:24:41 GMT

My hands tend to slap the water, you can hear it in the video (lane 1, near the wall). Does it waste energy? Here is yesterday's lcm 50fr, it was 30. something. Died near the end YouTube- DSCF0762.AVI That is a perfect example that there actually is pacing in a 50. Considering you could hear your entry over the sounds of the rest of the race, you could probably stand to work on you hand entry. A hand entry that doesn't bring bubbles with it should be quiet. The preference of thumb first, pinky first or finger tips first is going to be something you need to figure out with your shoulders, but any should work. Sprinting will generate more bubbles than when you work on perfect entry, but once it is a habit, you splash will blend in with the background noise.

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 03:33:57 GMT

RE: Video technique review

Former Member — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:03:14 GMT

Steve, your improvements are amazing. Form is far better than it's never been. Q. How are your shoulders doing? I think I saw little bit of a scissor kick during your 200. Not sure though. Have someone looking into it. Scissor kicking may slow you down (instead of favoring propulsion).

RE: Video technique review

__steve__ — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:21:34 GMT

Form is far better than it's never been. Hopefully it's never been better Q. How are your shoulders doing? Fine. But I have to baby the left shoulder giving a terrible streamline position as seen pulling out from a turn. I'm thinking about seeing a Dr. about this now. I think I saw little bit of a scissor kick during your 200. Not sure though. Have someone looking into it. Scissor kicking may slow you down (instead of favoring propulsion).You are absolutely correct, I scissored pulling out of each turn because I was 2-beat kicking for 150 yds. I will tighten it up, thanks!