USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

rdeclercq — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:33:15 GMT

Okay, its now almost Christmas (and Hanukkah) and I'm still confused. What I need is clarification to my interpretation of the swimsuit rules: 1. For SC, through May, pretty much anything goes. But no zippers and for the men, nothing above the waist or below the knee. 2. For LC, which really doesn't start until later in 2010, mid-January meeting results will dictate. Now, it sounds like USMS and/or FINA is challenging Webster on the definition of "textile." So, if it looks legal, it probably is, at least until further notice. So, if I pick myself up a Nike Swift jammer (which has a silicon gasket but a poly/spandex body), as long as there's no zippers and its above the knee and below the waist, I should be okay for now at least. Or am I on the wrong page? Happy Holidays! Rob

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Former Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:01:27 GMT

The meeting in Jan 2010 is the FINA Bureau. Nancy Rideout is on the FINA Masters Technical committee that already met in July 2009. They made recommendation to follow the "Swimming" swimwear guideline for Masters Swimming. It is anticipate the Bureau will approve this recommendations, but often these "rule changes" have 60-day implementation period ( so it could be mid-March or later) or FINA could decide to implement as soom as practical or they could wait for the end of the FINA season (31-Dec-2010). . Once FINA make a formal decision about Masters swimwear, then USMS will react. First, to comply with FINA rules for swimwear in meters (SCM and LCM) event. Second, they will decide when or if to apply these rules to SCY, as FINA does not recognize this format. At convention, the house of delegate was split on what makes sense for USMS with SCY ( waiting for the end of a SCY season or implementing quickly). Hope this does not add to your confusion. Basically, we don't know what will happen until mid-January 2010 nor when/if any swimwear restriction will be implemented. Anthony Thompson, MOVY Masters

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

orca1946 — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:16:33 GMT

SOOOOO I can swim SCY this season in my 3 yr old FS 11 :confused::confused:

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

rdeclercq — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:37:31 GMT

Thank you...though still a little confused, it sounds like its fair game until someone tells us otherwise. It also sounds like half a dozen decisions could reverse themselves over the next 12 months and that any meet should be approached with, "if it looks legal, it probably is...but bring an extra suit just in case." Happy Holidays! Rob

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Glenn — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 06:06:24 GMT

I believe Nancy Ridout is the rep from USMS.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

ande — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:07:09 GMT

who are the USMS reps that are going to the FINA meeting in Mid January?

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:40:56 GMT

AND what is the likelihood that companies will be making kneeskins for men or suits with zippers? Obviously the "do nothing" option and the so-called "compromise" are most advantageous to those currently owning suits! Well, I agree that complying with the "elite" rules would have been for the best... If you don't own one, knock yourself out, zipper and all. Took me all of 30 seconds to find. Buy it and be one of the happy few.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

hrietz — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:24:13 GMT

Well, I agree that complying with the "elite" rules would have been for the best... If you don't own one, knock yourself out, zipper and all. Took me all of 30 seconds to find. Buy it and be one of the happy few. I'd rather not since we still may end up following FINA "elite". I'll play it safe and stick with the recordbreaker!

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Former Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:11:17 GMT

Ok. Now I'm thoroughly confused. I could have sworn I read on these boards yesterday or Sunday that USMS was going to ban the tech suits on 10/1/09, that we could only wear jammers to the knees.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Jim Clemmons — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:46:41 GMT

I hope 1) USMS suit rules for LCM & SCM match FINAs & 2) we get to wear full body B70's all SCM season I think Masters should conclude both SCM and SCY seasons in current suits as some swims have already taken place with them in various parts of the country regardless of what's decided by other governing bodies. That would be the end of December, 2009 for SCM and end of May, 2010, for SCY.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Jim Clemmons — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:15:45 GMT

Ok. Now I'm thoroughly confused. I could have sworn I read on these boards yesterday or Sunday that USMS was going to ban the tech suits on 10/1/09, that we could only wear jammers to the knees. One thing I learned early on re: some posts on this board, Carlos, is that they may not be correct. I saw the same one you're referring to and decided to let it pass. Some folks get USMS and USAS confused.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

The Fortress — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:15:13 GMT

Ok. Now I'm thoroughly confused. I could have sworn I read on these boards yesterday or Sunday that USMS was going to ban the tech suits on 10/1/09, that we could only wear jammers to the knees. Chris S. gave a very thorough explanation of what was decided at convention on the "what should usms do about the suits" thread. I think you're referring to USA-S.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

ande — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:48:02 GMT

I hope 1) USMS suit rules for LCM & SCM match FINAs & 2) we get to wear full body B70's all SCM season

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

orca1946 — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:30:45 GMT

This is what I have said for a whule. Both genders wear the same amount of material!

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

hrietz — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:14:58 GMT

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

rodent — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:54:50 GMT

I think it's a fair compromise!

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Former Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:00:18 GMT

That doesn't seem to make for a level competition. I have been told many times that there is no level playing field in sports. One needs to stop whining work on technique, and train harder. Or so, I've been told.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Allen Stark — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:53:16 GMT

I'd prefer the ban start 1/1/10 for SCM and 6/1/10 for SCY,but I can see some wisdom in 1/1/10 for both.If the ban is before 1/1/10 I will be very irritated and think it just unfair as there have been several SCM meets already in USMS and mostly elsewhere.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Former Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:00:18 GMT

People are very passionate about this issue and I have personally engaged in meaningless debates with people who hold their views strongly and will not be convinced by my arguments any more than I will be convinced by theirs. I've decided I'm giving up tilting at that particular windmill. "Meaningless"? You have hurt my feelings. And I was ready to concede that the Blue Seventy Nero Comp bodyskin is really just an ultrathin wetsuit. But it sure is fast.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Jim Clemmons — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 04:01:28 GMT

Another reason against prolonging the ban until the end of the scy season is suit availability. If at our championship meet in May, the lzrs and x-glides are still legal, but those companies are no longer making them/ran out of the common sizes, then only those swimmers that still have them can use them. That doesn't seem to make for a level competition. It's one thing to compare times from october to may in the top ten, but you'd hope that at our championship meet everyone would have the same suit advantage whatever that turns out to be. You could be proactive and buy one now. They're very inexpensive. If you buy the right one (I'd suggest B70 as you can get 50+ swims in it) it would be available for Spring Nat's (assuming it can be worn and isn't on the banned substance list :)) I have two, a short and a full length so between them and an FSII I last used in Texas, I should (might, who knows?) be covered.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

The Fortress — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:10:56 GMT

I'm more sympathetic to your view on SCM but just want to rip the bandaid off here. opposite view ... (which is the one that appears to have won the day). Yeah, the rest of the world has been swimming SCM and holding SCM championship meets, so it's no big deal to us US swimmers ... I'm not as worried about SCY (an admittedly long season) as SCM. A tech suit is not a "bandaid." These are the types of words purists use that contribute to your, now admitted, moral self righteous image. Well, you haven't "won" yet. To date, FINA doesn't care about masters. It is quite possible of course that FINA will change its mind. And, if it does, I think it will be for the reasons Jimby previously stated -- bureaucratic need to exert dominion and jurisdiction over every conceivable regulatee.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

psyncw — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:06:31 GMT

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Midas — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:53:06 GMT

It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however. Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario. Got it. But to be clear, the slight majority voted against this. Looking at the USMS meet result database (and I understand that database doesn't always reflect EVERY meet) there have been a grand total of two SCY swim meets in the 2010 season. www.usms.org/.../index.php At one of those meets, there were 25 total swimmers and 69 total "splashes". At the other, there were only 18 total swimmers, but a whopping 102 splashes. Who knows why those who voted for the immediate ban did so, but if I were voting my vote would have been based on the view that I can live with "inequity" of these 170 or so outlier swims rather than compound the tech suit "problem" for thousands more swims during our biggest and arguably most important season. (My view stands even if there were more meets that have occurred and are not yet in the database--the simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the meets are yet to come.) I'm more sympathetic to your view on SCM but just want to rip the bandaid off here. Sigh. I can't even believe I'm doing it again! Look, I'm not trying to argue and I understand your perspective. I have now tried to explain at least one reason for holding the opposite one (which is the one that appears to have won the day). I don't really want to argue. OK, I'm out of here.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

ande — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:34:46 GMT

Makes more sense to impose bans at the end of seasons ie: SCM on 1/1/10 since swims have to be done on 12/31/09 or sooner SCY on 6/1/10 since swims have to be done on 05/31/09 or sooner seems reasonable It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however. Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.

RE: USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions

Midas — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:31:42 GMT

"Meaningless"? You have hurt my feelings. And I was ready to concede that the Blue Seventy Nero Comp bodyskin is really just an ultrathin wetsuit. But it sure is fast. Alas... :doh: