SUITS - again!

RE: SUITS - again!

Muppet — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:09:33 GMT

OK guys, no cord in your Speedos or jammers in future!! This is contradictory to what I have read. Unless speedo, tyr, arena, etc are going to custom-fit every single individual swimmer out there, these drawstrings are necessary to keep the suit on the swimmer and thus allowed.

RE: SUITS - again!

BillS — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:20:16 GMT

This is contradictory to what I have read. Unless speedo, tyr, arena, etc are going to custom-fit every single individual swimmer out there, these drawstrings are necessary to keep the suit on the swimmer and thus allowed. The NCAA rule expressly allows drawstrings: CONSTRUCTION Any system providing external stimulation or influence of any form (for example, pain reduction, chemical/medical substance release, electro-stimulation, compression of body profile or other performance-enhancing properties) is prohibited. The swimsuit shall not have any zippers or fasteners other than a waist tie for a brief or a jammer. The swimsuit shall be composed of no more than two layers, the sum of which shall not exceed .8 millimeters in total thickness (except in the casing/ribbing in the terminal ends of the swimsuit). Elastic material may be contained within the casing/ribbing in the terminal ends of the swimsuit (for example, shoulder straps, waist opening, leg openings). The FINA rule does not expressly address the issue.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:07:45 GMT

You are right. It's the compression that's achieved by zips. So no zips in future. The 'no zippers' or 'fasteners' rule is causing problems already. I coach a couple of swimmers who are already putting 'fasteners' in place of zips on their suits. These are lines of hooks either side, in place of the zip. They are then laced together, just like a shoe. (Hope this is clear). I've spoken to someone at FINA who has confirmed it will not be accepted. He said, No 'ties' will be allowed. OK guys, no cord in your Speedos or jammers in future!! Expect yet another rule change from FINA soon. Hmmm...didn't they make an exception to the "no fasterners" rule for briefs and jammers? Doesn't make a lot of sense to not have a tie string for guys suits...unless we can swim naked and not be disqualified for not wearing suitable attire.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:38:17 GMT

I'm guessing a zipper allows for greater compression in a full body suit, or even just an upper body suit. You are right. It's the compression that's achieved by zips. So no zips in future. The 'no zippers' or 'fasteners' rule is causing problems already. I coach a couple of swimmers who are already putting 'fasteners' in place of zips on their suits. These are lines of hooks either side, in place of the zip. They are then laced together, just like a shoe. (Hope this is clear). I've spoken to someone at FINA who has confirmed it will not be accepted. He said, No 'ties' will be allowed. OK guys, no cord in your Speedos or jammers in future!! Expect yet another rule change from FINA soon.

RE: SUITS - again!

swimshark — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:44:24 GMT

I don't really get the "no zippers or fasteners" restriction. I don't get it either. I thought it was the fabric that was the problem, not the closure. My old tech suit is not making me faster yet it's now banned in my USAS meets.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:38:22 GMT

I guess that we need to have technology to a degree, I am all for it. Given the development of tennis rackets for instance. Without the composite makeup of the racket frame today, players like Roddick, etc wouldn't have a chance because the racket develops so much power off the serve and groundstrokes. What about the new "track" style starting blocks whcih you can see at the US open. Why should this be allowed, it will give a swimmer more leverage on the start? Point is, we need to move forward with technology to a degree just as any sport has evolved over time.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:51:18 GMT

I'm guessing a zipper allows for greater compression in a full body suit, or even just an upper body suit. Ok. Thanks. Probably the reason behind it. While I am in favor of keeping the textile bodysuits, I am debating if I should keep using my FS Pro bodysuit or my arena powerskin suit, or if I should go ahead and start using fs pro jammer or tyr tracer jammer

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:37:23 GMT

I don't really get the "no zippers or fasteners" restriction. I'm guessing a zipper allows for greater compression in a full body suit, or even just an upper body suit.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:04:40 GMT

And no zippers or clips. So even my old material Aquapel's are our since they have a zipper back :( I don't really get the "no zippers or fasteners" restriction.

RE: SUITS - again!

swimshark — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:57:17 GMT

Women...shoulder to knee suits are ok. No suits with any rubber type material. Think 2007 and before material for suits. And no zippers or clips. So even my old material Aquapel's are our since they have a zipper back :(

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:38:57 GMT

I think to be fair to vendors, the ban on the masters level should be much slower. Like 2011 or even 2012. We can be the last market palce for these suits! At a tri this weekend I saw a whole lot of people wearing LZR's...

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:17:58 GMT

If anything, now we are going backwards. That's the point. FINA should have intervened when the first body suits and leg skins appeared on the market.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:54 GMT

that's what I thought, but call me a radical. the knee/ankle for men should be allowed in ghe FSII and tyr type suits that do not have any neoprene/rubber additions hence the pre 2007 suit. If anything, now we are going backwards. Given the Jaked and Arena x glide have no lycra/nylon in the suit, they should never have been allowed in the first place (but that's another story). The lazr and tyr rise were probably as far as I would have taken it.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:34:50 GMT

Simple...if FINA doesn't say definitly for masters, everyone on the men's side can wear either traditional briefs or jammers. FS Pro style jammers and before. No lzr jammers. The tyr tracer light jammers will probably be ok. Not shoulder to knee/ankle suits for men right now. Women...shoulder to knee suits are ok. No suits with any rubber type material. Think 2007 and before material for suits.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:58:05 GMT

I'm happy to see things revert back and no, I'm not a Luddite. I bought a FS-Pro full body at the beginning of this summer thinking that, since it was a "textile" suit, it would likely survive any potential ban to the super-fast suits... it didn't. And, I'm happy things are going back to jammers. I really don't like futzing with putting the stupid thing on and being super careful with it. I'll gladly buy a new pair of jammers and pull them on with no fuss right before my race.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:35:52 GMT

If some of the current, small, vendors have a big investment in suits that cannot be sold, there may be some paring of the number of suit providers. But, perhaps you're right, maybe we shouldn't worry about that - it's just good Capitalism. Actually Mel, it has struck me that, if any manufacturer goes under it will be due a rather Communist dictate that all swimmers shall be equal and no advantage be allowed to the innovative. This doesn't seem to be Capitalism at work. Last year when Speedo had the lead with the LZR and their competition reacted - that was Capitalism. Ian.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:48:47 GMT

I feel a little sorry for them...but I don't think it is our job to worry about the vendors. They'll be fine. You may be a bit naive here, Chris. One of the originators of the new kinds of suits was The Victor (where I purchased my first knee-to-shoulder length suit in 1999). They are no longer in business. If some of the current, small, vendors have a big investment in suits that cannot be sold, there may be some paring of the number of suit providers. But, perhaps you're right, maybe we shouldn't worry about that - it's just good Capitalism.

RE: SUITS - again!

swimcat — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:33:14 GMT

speedo flipturns (women) came out with a two piece with a skirt on it. LMAO maybe that will be the female suit of choice

RE: SUITS - again!

Allen Stark — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:23:55 GMT

As it stands right now the tech suit ban will not apply to Masters.That may change when the FINA Masters committee meets.I understand that committee has many new members and what they will decide cannot be predicted at this time.

RE: SUITS - again!

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:09:08 GMT

You may be a bit naive here, Chris.. Probably. But I think companies like B70 and Jaked got a lot of exposure and name recognition. If they make a legal suit in the future I will cerainly give a B70 v strong consideration. But come convention-time I will be thinking primarily of the needs of 3 types of swimmers: -- those who compete and love the suit who will be unhappy if they are gone -- those who compete but have been turned off by the suits, perhaps even to the point of (say) competing less -- those who haven't competed but might be considering it in the future. That's enough to worry about for now!

RE: SUITS - again!

psyncw — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:02:10 GMT

Remember it was the U.S.A. swimming community that submitted the suit proposal to FINA to limit the men's suit to briefs or jammers. I find it very ironic that members of the USA masters community would suggest or recommend that masters not follow the FINA suit policy.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:37:29 GMT

Well overall, I think that the men's suits not being allowed to go below the knee is taking it way back to the dark ages. I agree with the tech suits to a point, which is why FINA is in place to regulate the sport. That being said, they did a very bad job and it has hurt our sport. Going back to just briefs or jammers is not the ideal ruling, to me this was a political statment becasue of the negative press and the backlash that FINA was taking so they just in a stike of the pen eliminated the problem....they just do not, as any political organization, know how to manage or lead. Now that that is off my chest, I plan on buying a jaked or B70 suit off of ebay to use in masters meets till at least December. I used the Tyr rise in zones and loved it. Mostly for me it was a psychological boost.

RE: SUITS - again!

Allen Stark — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:04:39 GMT

Again,we need to see what the FINA Masters committee says.The last I heard they did not have suits on their agenda,though I suspect that will change.

RE: SUITS - again!

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:49:58 GMT

So if FINA says the rule doesn't apply to Masters - we are still only allowed to use Jammers & briefs for men? Will the FS-Pro stay alive? Isn't it coated to repel water? This is so frustrating. I was going to get an FS-Pro legskin, but that's out from almost everyone's guidlines - and if I'm putting down $100 I don't want to buy a suit that I can't use beyond this December. Maybe I'll stick with the aquablades I have, or perhaps I'll go with an FSII at this point. If FINA says the tech suit ruling do not apply to masters, then we can wear any of the suits out there. If they DO apply the ruling, I would be the fs pro jammer will be legal. I haven't heard of any coatings on it.

RE: SUITS - again!

orca1946 — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:28:48 GMT

Venders will have something else to sell us !