Rethinking doping punishments

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:27:01 GMT

Intent is hard to prove, that is part of the problem. Example: 16 year old vs 24 year old being given steroids by their coaches. I have a lot easier time saying that the 24 year old should have known. A 20 year old should know better but is still in the stage of life where it is common to point to others for moral guidance.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:22:49 GMT

Why don't we join the issues of the Tech Suit and Doping. Keep the full length rubber suits, but if you get caught doping, you can still compete. But only in Lycra Briefs/Jammer or std womens suit.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:43:33 GMT

But do you agree with a lifetime ban for doping offenders that cannot present a case that their use wasn't intentional? Yes - I would even go further. I would strip them of all previous accomplishments and make them return all medals.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:14:01 GMT

Totally agree -- this is entirely different than intentional use / cheating. Lifetime ban ??? That's like giving somebody the death penalty for involuntary manslaughter. If someone supports a lifetime ban in such cases then that is extreme. But do you agree with a lifetime ban for doping offenders that cannot present a case that their use wasn't intentional? If an athlete deliberately cheats then they are forever tainted.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:47:50 GMT

This girl got completely screwed (not saying she shouldn't have been suspended, though. A positive test is a positive test). I think people just need to get the heck off her back. Totally agree -- this is entirely different than intentional use / cheating. Lifetime ban ??? That's like giving somebody the death penalty for involuntary manslaughter.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:44:51 GMT

This girl got completely screwed (not saying she shouldn't have been suspended, though. A positive test is a positive test). I think people just need to get the heck off her back. Kirk linked to a good blog from the Seattle columnist in the previous topic. Some of the behavior of the panel re: a possible reduction of the ban to 6 months to allow Olympic participation seemed to go above and beyond the mandate of that panel. They were exploring the option of tailoring the suspension to suit Hardy. Not claiming there's anything untoward about the process. But it would definitely clear up any reservations if she wins her CAS hearing and WADA's appeal against the AAA's ruling is rejected. However, my opinion is that if someone deliberately cheats then I support a lifetime ban. If they can present a case otherwise then a suspension is fine. But I don't like the comparisons to other sports particularly ones such as baseball. I don't want to achieve parity with the least common denominator when it comes to punitive anti doping policies. The self serving and hypocritical reactions of fans in other sports don't concern me.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:31:21 GMT

I would like her lawyers to release the full findings of the testing they conducted on her behalf. This way all that information is subject to the scrutiny of the sports science community at large. I get what you are saying, but do remember that it was an independent panel that concluded it was advocare's fault, not someone with an agenda. If this happened to you, wouldn't you just want the whole thing to go away? Would you really want to be subject to arm-chair scientists speculating on the matter? This girl got completely screwed (not saying she shouldn't have been suspended, though. A positive test is a positive test). I think people just need to get the heck off her back.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:52:17 GMT

I do think it would be a bit harsh for her to be prevented from competing in two Olympics if there's verifiable cred to what her defense team alleges about Advocare. However there's still a few things about Hardy's case that bother me. I would like her lawyers to release the full findings of the testing they conducted on her behalf. This way all that information is subject to the scrutiny of the sports science community at large. I do find it strange given Advocare's profile that there's no instance of its products triggering a positive test for Clenbuterol. Their list of clients extends into many sports and athletes that are tested and tested often. It's a bit of a wild west atmosphere for supplements but given some past litigation these companies have a lot at stake too especially if they're marketing this to athletes subject to doping controls. While some swimmers ditched Advocare I know a couple that still take it. Not smart to be sure but they still don't believe that their supplements triggered her positive test results, they basically think she just got caught.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

orca1946 — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:29:32 GMT

Ok suspend us for 5 meets & go back at it !! By the way we don't go back to $500,000 a meet??:badday:

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:09:49 GMT

One difference with MLB, NFL, etc. is that the suspensions are served without pay. I know they are wealthy already, but a 50 game baseball suspension is VERY costly in money.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

funkyfish — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:07:26 GMT

If any professional sports organization wants to make a definitive statement regarding doping, I think the strongest one would be to ban the convicted player from competing for life, no exceptions, no excuses. However, given that such a penalty would potentially get rid of many cash cows, I don't see that ever happening.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

Former Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:07:07 GMT

I fully support the current rules including the Olympic ban. Dopers suck. I would even support a lifetime ban, with a stipulation that samples must be kept on file to enable future appeals.. in case one turns out to be innocent. For the guilty (the cheaters), I have no sympathy.

RE: Rethinking doping punishments

knelson — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:46:53 GMT

Did you see the thread over on collegeswimming? Some of the postings are awfully harsh, I must say! Yeah, Hardy deserved to be suspended, but to also prohibit her from swimming in 2012 just seems ridiculous to me.