Triathletes in General

RE: Triathletes in General

FindingMyInnerFish — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:02:43 GMT

Love that post Bob :agree: I do have to say that I've always been a swimmer and run to lose weight. (I'm one of those swimmers with "more than 5% body fat". ) One summer my husband and I tried to do the track workout with Forward Motion in Danville, CA. They were doing sets that I had no clue what the number even meant. I'm not a sprinter or a distance runner (that I know of), so I really had no clue what the heck I was doing. My husband did fine, he had done these workouts before. No one there was very welcoming or friendly and that made me feel even worse. But I really just figured that they were doing their workout and I was probably just in the way. Needless to say, I never went back. I'm a friendly person anyway, but since then I always go out of my way to make swimmers of any level feel welcome at our practices. As someone who has done workouts with a few different running clubs, I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience in your workout. I think I've been lucky in that the groups I've worked out with have been welcoming of newcomers regardless of experience. Recently, I did a hill workout with a much faster group than I am, yet I'd get "keep it up!" "Good job!" etc. While there wasn't a lot of conversation during the workout--ha! we were all too breathless!--before and afterward, people were quite friendly. In one group I've been in for a long time, we'll cheer for one another at races regardless of pace.... The 5-6 min. milers will encourage the 10-12 minute milers. Although some swimming groups I've been in have been friendlier than others, I generally have been lucky there too--even in the more impersonal groups, I'll find someone I can talk with. But your thought is good and something that I will keep in mind whether in a running or swimming group--to help newcomers feel welcome.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:09:45 GMT

When I am swimming in algae-filled lake I use many things to keep me on course. Sometimes it's just the position of the sun: something I can see with my eyes open under water. Sometimes it is a mountain or tree that I can see as I breathe. And of course there are those times you just fall in behind someone that's faster than you even though you can only see the bubbles from their feet. When all else fails look up. The less time I spend with my head up sighting the better. I never want to be swimming blind. That is why I don't find this drill helpful, although people disagree with me on this one. Well, it's more to prevent an anxiety attack than for anything actually swimming related. Some people don't react at all well to their first few experiences of murky lake water, after years of only swimming in clear swimming pools.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:42:12 GMT

At our six-lane pool they only put out two lane lines so we swim out along the lane lines and back in the middle and hence in alternating directions. This works well for avoiding arms clashing in free and fly. The potential downside is if you have two swimmers on either side of the lane line swimming the same direction swimming breaststroke with a wide kick they may kick one another for the whole length, likewise if two swimmers are both swimming back in the middle side by side. In practice people just learn to stagger and it isn't really a problem.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:59:48 GMT

I'll stay mum on the main topic of this thread, but this comment in the original post caught my eye: It just seems proper that if lane one is circling clockwise, lane two should circle counter-clockwise so you don't bash you freaking arms across the lane lines. I have swum in many different pools, with half a dozen different masters groups. But I haven't ever seen anybody circle swim in any direction other than counterclockwise. Do people actually alternate directions in adjacent lanes? It makes sense, I suppose. I have just never heard of it. (Plus it would be as confusing to me as driving on the wrong side of the road, at this point.)

RE: Triathletes in General

aquageek — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:41:32 GMT

I have swum in many different pools, with half a dozen different masters groups. But I haven't ever seen anybody circle swim in any direction other than counterclockwise. Do people actually alternate directions in adjacent lanes? It makes sense, I suppose. I have just never heard of it. (Plus it would be as confusing to me as driving on the wrong side of the road, at this point.) My Australian friends circle clock-wise and it is quite an adjustment to go counter clock-wise when they move here. There's a kid's team in your area that alternates the direction of circle swimming by day, which I think is a really good idea.

RE: Triathletes in General

Karen Duggan — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:35:02 GMT

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:41:12 GMT

Visibility is pretty poor in some algae-filled inland lakes, so doing some lane swimming with the eyes shut can actually be a good way to prepare for it. When I am swimming in algae-filled lake I use many things to keep me on course. Sometimes it's just the position of the sun: something I can see with my eyes open under water. Sometimes it is a mountain or tree that I can see as I breathe. And of course there are those times you just fall in behind someone that's faster than you even though you can only see the bubbles from their feet. When all else fails look up. The less time I spend with my head up sighting the better. I never want to be swimming blind. That is why I don't find this drill helpful, although people disagree with me on this one.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:15:00 GMT

Visibility is pretty poor in some algae-filled inland lakes, so doing some lane swimming with the eyes shut can actually be a good way to prepare for it. Some people freak out the first time they get into such a lake and can't see more than a foot or two in front of their outstretched arm. Most of the triathletes that I'm acquainted with really do want to swim better and are constantly looking for ways to do it. I don't agree with their emphasis on only swimming freestyle, but I can sort of understand it. As for pool toys, in my brief experience with a master's swim club there was a lot of pull buoy/kickboard/paddle use thrown into those workouts as well. Maybe the triathletes would be better in a master's group, maybe not. Masters swim clubs are not always welcoming or inclusive.

RE: Triathletes in General

funkyfish — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:42 GMT

One thing I've noticed with some triathletes is that it's really hard if not impossible to convince them of the importance of spending time improving their stroke, which requires slower swimming at much shorter intervals. I've had a few ask me how I learned to swim so well, or state that I must swim a lot to get so good. While it's true that I swim quite a bit more than they do, they stare in disbelief when I tell them that I get better and faster when I swim slower, shorter and focus on technique. Some triathletes have a quantity over quality mindset. I also think that where I swim, there are more triathletes swimming than there are competitive swimmers. The coach of the local age-group team comes in every now and then, but to my knowledge he and I are the only masters swimmer using this particular pool. I'd rather have people actually swimming in the lanes than people walking in them. As an aside, I give them props for running and cycling as much as they do. I can handle the cycling, but I'm a horrible runner and lack the will/discipline necessary to get better at it. :banana:

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:07:17 GMT

At times they even discuss their swim workouts among themselves to find good ones even though they usually don't have a clue why they do or do not work for them. They even have some strange notions about training which they then decide to "share" with others. And when you are privy to this ----> comedic gold D*mn this is a long post. Honestly, your 15 points are well appreciated and ****ing funny as hell! Plus we actually learned a lot about some of the stuff that some of us may be able to address w/ triathletes.

RE: Triathletes in General

Muppet — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:10:46 GMT

6) Once a week you should spend some time working on your stroke. Bob, great post. interesting point #6, sometimes once is all people get into the pool anymore.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:54:07 GMT

i don't swim with my eyes closed when i am racing, but i do think it is good practice to do so when you have the luxury of your own lane or in the OW. i feel like i can "see" my stroke much more clearly when my eyes are closed. I knew someone would call me out on that one (and the water sex toys). A bit of levity was intended.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:50:17 GMT

10) Swimming with your eyes closed is good training for open water. (Seriously does anyone swim with their eyes closed in a race? I have never done this drill) i don't swim with my eyes closed when i am racing, but i do think it is good practice to do so when you have the luxury of your own lane or in the OW. i feel like i can "see" my stroke much more clearly when my eyes are closed.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:38:24 GMT

I guess it's time that I stop telling triathletes that they should spend a fair amount of time in the winter working on their swimming. I don't compete in pool meets, but I started back into OW racing a couple of years ago. I also started doing tris at the same time because at 57 I could workout whatever sport my body would allow me to do that day. So let share my thought on triathletes. First, as a rule they are a great group. Lots of fun to compete against and socialize at the finish line. There are of course those exceptions. Second, as for their pool behavior some of it is a result of their inexperience and frustration. Some is just bad attitude but you don't have to be a triathlete to have that. It is often said that triathletes can't swim. While this may be true of a few, it is more like they are not good at swimming. (There are of course some amazing swimmers at the top of the sport). They usually come from cycling and running where if you want to go faster you just train harder (or buy a faster bike). The whole concept of less is sometimes more escape many of these athletes. What I have found is that they get frustrated with their swimming progress. At times they even discuss their swim workouts among themselves to find good ones even though they usually don't have a clue why they do or do not work for them. They even have some strange notions about training which they then decide to "share" with others. I feel for their frustration with the sport, but many triathletes do not have time or interest in becoming good swimmers. The problem they have is that is that they are used to being on top of their sport, and in the pool they are getting destroyed by swimmers with a bit more than their 5% body fat. One final note. While swimmers complain about triathletes, triathletes do their share of complaining about swimmers. Some have great things to say about Masters teams, but some do not. Now if I could only get them to dump their MP3 players while swimming and pay a little more time focusing on their stroke (and others in the pool around them). I never met a swimmer who could say that they got to be a better swimmer because of an MP3 player. With triathletes the justification in using them is because it is too boring to do all those laps without one, to which I say: Do fewer laps and focus completely on your stroke. That will make you faster. So to finish off here is a list of a few swimming tips that triathletes share with others even though their race results show they barely swim under 2:00 per hundred in the 1 mile leg of an Olympic distance race: 1) Do open turns and do not push off the wall hard because it gives you too much rest and that is not what happens in an open water swim. (I love this one) 2) Wear a drag suit in practice to make you a better swimmer. Ignore the fact that they all wear wetsuits in a race and the lack of one in training provides more than enough drag. 3) You have to use paddles to get fast (I never use them). 4) You have to use a buoy to improve your stroke (I never use one) 5) You have to use these and any other water sex toys you can get your hands on. Make sure that you use them in every workout. 6) Once a week you should spend some time working on your stroke. 7) To work on your stroke you need to do specific drills even though they are not sure why) 8) You need to workout so that you can do a really fast 100 time. This is the best way to find out if you are getting better. Forget that a 1500 meter swimmer never swims as fast a 100 as a sprinter does. (a lot of the same people say they break 1:15 for a single hundred and then average 1:45 - 2:00 in the swim leg 9) You can't become a good freestyler by training different strokes. Worse yet is that you lose all that time you could be doing just freestyle (OK so I don't train different stokes anymore, but that's a different story). 10) Swimming with your eyes closed is good training for open water. (Seriously does anyone swim with their eyes closed in a race? I have never done this drill) 11) You should swim as fast as you can at the start of the swim and fight to stay in with the pack. Forget that you will die 50 - 100 yds from the start. (Alright so this is not a training tip but I had to include it) 12) Swimming is boring, that's just the nature of the sport so just get used to it. (Talk about negative attitude) 13) I had a friend that swam in college and he says you should ALWAYS . . . . (forgot to mention he was a sprint specialist) 14) I have a friend that swam competitively all his life and he says in a race you should ALWAYS. . . (forget that their idea of open water was a lane by yourself in an outdoor 50 meter pool (Not that this isn't an awesome way to train) 15) You have to log everyone of your workouts so you can look back on them (what is the purpose of this if you don't know why things were or weren't working) Some may think these are good swimming tips, but if you saw the people sharing these among themselves I think you'd agree that they should probably skip these and get some one-on-one lessons. D*mn this is a long post.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:12:32 GMT

- giving each other pointers on technique/training advice, LOL! The pool where I swim has a TON of tris, and they all give each other technique advice that is laughable. I was talking with a coach this summer about triathletes. This is a very successful club coach, but he was amazed and annoyed w/ triathletes who would blow his workouts off b/c he "doesn't understand triathlons" and the role of swimming in that sport. And then when one of them found out that he had coached numerous world record holders and they respected him, then maybe he knew what he was doing after all. :confused: Interestingly, the only irritating tris in our workouts are in the slower lanes. When Wendy Ingraham swam with us, she was faster than most of even the guys, and she was fun to swim with. Now Chris Lieto (who's been on our team seemingly forever) has sort of taken her place. Good swimmer, nice, and most people like him. Never had a problem with tris at the faster end of the pool. Now the other end of the pool... that's another story. They don't always play well with lanemates. And we'll leave it at that! I've never had direct probs w/ tris. On one team in LA that had a numerous Ironmen, a few of these amazing athletes were just pissy about getting pretty much zero rest, so instead of doing our workout they would take the crappy lanes off to the side and swim their straight 1000's on 10 seconds rest. Their argument was that there wasn't enough bang for the buck if they worked on speed. I hate/hated that attitude. Plus at least on that team they were all type A obnoxious jerks. A couple of years back I got to work out w/ elite tris, and I had no idea that they were triathletes. Very much go-with-the-flow men and women...

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:55:35 GMT

I share lanes with Tri swimmers all the time and never have had any problems. I am lucky that we never have to circle swim at my pool, so that is never an issue. I do get some questions and looks while doing drills, but I enjoy having two or three swimmers drop in to do a 1000 and get out during my workout. Sometimes it gives me sombody to chase.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:18:54 GMT

This thread appeared to be dormant for the few months, so it is funny to see it come to life again. This past week, all the triathletes started coming back to the pool to begin training again. It's been quiet for a while, kind of nice. Now it is more crowded. My lane only added one more person, but the lanes next to me have added 3 or so per lane. All swimming with their watches on. They don't show up for the Saturday 7 AM practice.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:25:22 GMT

Phew, good thing I'm an aquathlon-ete!

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:39:49 GMT

Throwing more fuel on the fire... :duel: "How to spot a Triathlete in the pool" over at slowtwitch.com: forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi A few gems: - the huge garmin 310x/405 on their wrist instead of using the pace clock - hr monitor - refusal to learn how to do flip turns - Open water (big) goggles - giving each other pointers on technique/training advice, LOL! - tri tan lines on the legs

RE: Triathletes in General

__steve__ — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:55:07 GMT

- tri tan lines on the legs Heart rate monitor tan lines:D

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:48:52 GMT

Chaos you would hate having me in the lane next to you. I'm a chronic laneline puller when I do backstroke and would have all the little lane-line rings completely messed up. Actually if I know there'll be a lot of backstroke in a workout I push them all down to one end at the start to get the laneline ready :groovy: Carefull!!! Last time I did that, I dislocated two fingers and broke one. OUCH!!! Wait, ... what? I can't speak of swimming in Canada, but in the US, where I've swum competitively since 1978, everyone swam counterclockwise, just like we drive, on the right hand of the lane. Sure there would be some hand smacks on occassion, but its really no big deal. I've never heard of the meshed circle swimming. I've been competing for the larger part of 20 years (few years hiatus after college). Sounds smart, and would definitely get rid of the habit some have of circle swimming in competitions. I've never had a problem with triathlete, but I have had a ton of similar problems with fitness swimmers and new swimmers. I'm not known for being quiet, and I usually have few problems after I help them with swimming etiquete. Also, I'm pretty adiment about using wall, and finishing to the wall. I've had a few comments said to me, but if I tell you that I need to finish and need to do flip turns, I'll do them. I wont use a person as a wall, and I'll try to no splash too much, but I'll be nice as I can make sure those in the same lane know how I swim. And I'll make sure I'm as courteous to them. It's the passing I've never gotten fixed. If you aren't doing flip turns, and someone is on your feet, there should be no problem to wait until the wall, but let them pass at the wall PLEASE, especially when there's a full lane it's hard to go around.

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:56:29 GMT

Lower body fat? Ouch. That's going to leave a mark.

RE: Triathletes in General

Karen Duggan — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 04:00:58 GMT

Interestingly, the only irritating tris in our workouts are in the slower lanes. When Wendy Ingraham swam with us, she was faster than most of even the guys, and she was fun to swim with. Now Chris Lieto (who's been on our team seemingly forever) has sort of taken her place. Good swimmer, nice, and most people like him. Never had a problem with tris at the faster end of the pool. Now the other end of the pool... that's another story. They don't always play well with lanemates. And we'll leave it at that!

RE: Triathletes in General

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 01:17:25 GMT

"How to spot a Triathlete in the pool" Lower body fat?

RE: Triathletes in General

Former Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:09:53 GMT

When you smack hands with some tri wearing the latest Titanium 12 inch Guaranteed-to-make-you-swim-faster-without-actually-learning-how-Swim paddles it tends to sting...