Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:55:15 GMT

I hate to respond to an obvious troll but... Why does it bug you so much? If you dont want to compete then dont. If you dont like the competitive talk on this BB, dont read it. If your team is too focused on competition (and I doubt that), find a new one, or swim solo. Do your own thing and stop clucking about what masters swimming "should be" - we are all adults now, who cares about what everyone else is doing? What an epiphany! You're right--the "elite" swimmers should do their own thing and not worry about what the "less accomplished" person is doing--including making fun of someone else's time. If they don't have something good and supportive to say, they should NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. If you have to beat someone down, there is something wrong with YOU. My problem is with people (ANY people) who belittle someone else for achievements that aren't on par with their own. Who's to say the guy's 100 time wasn't his best-ever, just because it was slower than theirs? Who gave anyone the right to make fun of, put down, turn their noses up, or even discuss somebody else's work? They're out there DOING IT, aren't they? They're not sitting on their butts on a sofa...they're swimming the same workout as the "good" swimmers. Yeah, they may be slower. Yeah, their stroke may be a little off. Yeah, they might not look as good as you do in a Speedo. But how can someone stand there and claim to be better than someone else for ANY reason? There is NO excuse for arrogance--anybody with an arrogant attitude never has a reason to be arrogant. If anything, they should be supporting the person in their efforts--not smacking them down to make themselves feel better. People like that don't *belong* in competition, no matter what their level. If they're so good, they can go off and swim with Michael Phelps. At least the person is OUT there. And you can increase a slow time, but there isn't much you can do about a big head. The same people you step on on the way you think is UP are the same people you meet on the way back DOWN. That person you're putting down might never beat you, but hey, he sure is further ahead.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Iwannafly — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:29:50 GMT

Not sure which "Paul" you keep referring to on your posts but TJ....if you think I'm Mr. Negative your (of White Buffalo, or Mr. Postive) you are wrong. I have no problems with people knowing who I am...it makes it much more interesting at meets when I meet people for the first time, dodging stuff being thrown at me is part of my "elite" training. I actually only used your name once and it was in reference to the comment you made about being a Libertarian! I was only yanking your chain.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Paul Smith — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:34:17 GMT

Let's see if we can answer those initial questions? I (note the "I" statement Paul) can't answer this and neither can anyone but you. Can't say why it appears, to you, that many masters swimmers take USMS so seriously. I think the biggest difference is that a masters swimmer who is focused on setting masters records probably doesn't spend nearly as much time on the bike as the "selfish train all day", "it's all about me" triathlete. And, the masters swimmer who is focused on setting masters records probably is a better swimmer than said triathlete. This isn't really a question, but I wanted to hear myself type, so I put a response anyway. Perhaps it is; but for some, the means to that end is the competition. I have a tendency to get bored with things unless I can find some way to compete at them. I am nowhere near any record swim times, but I still enjoy competing. AND...if I want to throw out $450 for a damn swim suit, it's certainly my right to do so. Now, I will admit that I'm the first person to tease somebody who can't break 1:05 in the 100 free (that would be me), but is still wearing the latest suit. Perhaps not to someone who had a tremendous amount of success way back in their day, but if I were anywhere near setting a masters record, it would mean a great deal, but only to me and perhaps people close to me. I personally don't care if some formerly elite swimmer is turned off by the bunch of us jawing at each other, or some middle-aged swimmer dedicating themselves to breaking a record, or just someone who takes their swimming perhaps too seriously. If they want to swim with some truly great people and have a good time, they'll get over the fact that in any group of people, there will always be one or two who are over the top and way too serious. Now, if we could just get Paul to quit voting for the Badnariks of the country and vote for somebody who will affect some real change...:bolt: Not sure which "Paul" you keep referring to on your posts but TJ....if you think I'm Mr. Negative your (of White Buffalo, or Mr. Postive) you are wrong. I have no problems with people knowing who I am...it makes it much more interesting at meets when I meet people for the first time, dodging stuff being thrown at me is part of my "elite" training.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:57:36 GMT

If you are still following me, I think what emerges from all this is that we who are still writing anything at this point are doing so not because we expect to change anyone's mind, or even add clarity to the debate. My personal opinion is that network mediums such as this message board are used with acute curiosity by posters who openly share their inner perspective of the human psyche. The fascination kicks in when you are left projecting a destructive thought which in most cases is stretched to a place of pure fiction. The majority of these thoughts could never be real outside the mind, that would imply a consensus of interaction with our accepted modes of reality. Instead they act like shadows that simply disappear when you turn the lights on. Let's see if we can answer those initial questions? What happens when we stop acting and simply accept what we are?

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

aquageek — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:37:42 GMT

What happens when we stop acting and simply accept what we are? In my particular case, about 35 extra pounds happened. I've gone back to acting.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Iwannafly — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:50:00 GMT

Let's see if we can answer those initial questions? Why does it appear many masters swimmers are taking USMS so seriously? I (note the "I" statement Paul) can't answer this and neither can anyone but you. Can't say why it appears, to you, that many masters swimmers take USMS so seriously. What's the difference between the typical "selfish train all day", "it's all about me" triathlete and a masters swimmer who seriously trains as hard as they can.... particularly to focus on setting masters records? I think the biggest difference is that a masters swimmer who is focused on setting masters records probably doesn't spend nearly as much time on the bike as the "selfish train all day", "it's all about me" triathlete. And, the masters swimmer who is focused on setting masters records probably is a better swimmer than said triathlete. Seems like there is a growing parallel between triathletes and many masters swimmers these days. This isn't really a question, but I wanted to hear myself type, so I put a response anyway. Isn't it just "masters swimming" for health and fun in the end? Perhaps it is; but for some, the means to that end is the competition. I have a tendency to get bored with things unless I can find some way to compete at them. I am nowhere near any record swim times, but I still enjoy competing. AND...if I want to throw out $450 for a damn swim suit, it's certainly my right to do so. Now, I will admit that I'm the first person to tease somebody who can't break 1:05 in the 100 free (that would be me), but is still wearing the latest suit. Does a masters record really mean that much? Perhaps not to someone who had a tremendous amount of success way back in their day, but if I were anywhere near setting a masters record, it would mean a great deal, but only to me and perhaps people close to me. Is this a good thing? ..... or a turn off for those who look on with amusement. I personally don't care if some formerly elite swimmer is turned off by the bunch of us jawing at each other, or some middle-aged swimmer dedicating themselves to breaking a record, or just someone who takes their swimming perhaps too seriously. If they want to swim with some truly great people and have a good time, they'll get over the fact that in any group of people, there will always be one or two who are over the top and way too serious. Now, if we could just get Paul to quit voting for the Badnariks of the country and vote for somebody who will affect some real change...:bolt:

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:12:41 GMT

This thread needs to be moved off "General Swimming-Related Discussions"; it no longer has anything to do with swimming! If people want to spar, belittle each other, or just screw with each other that's fine.....but please just take it to another forum........maybe the dysfunctional personality forum. I personally am sick of this SH__! (I know I should just stop reading it but it's like a sick malignancy that just keeps spreading and contaminating healthy and happy attitudes). :blah: :confused: :badday: Sounds like you already know the cure...just stop reading it.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Bobinator — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:05:54 GMT

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:56:14 GMT

Triathletes with ironman tattoo's that can't swim a 100 under 3:00 but have $7000 bikes Master swimmers with shark and/or bovine tattoo's that can't swim a 100 under 1:00 but have $500 LZR's Might this be what Mr. Negative was getting at? If so, god speed all of you masters swimmers who are supporting Speedo and Blue 70, therein supporting masters swimming.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:19:49 GMT

There's a thread on the Open Water forum on urination. Maybe that should be stricken too. Yes, I was going to mention that since we were on the subject of decorum and forum etiquette. While "urination" is preferred over "pissing", I suggest use of the term "number one" instead.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:51:43 GMT

Are there, in fact, any records held by non-elite elitists? I broke the record in the women's 70-74 yr old 200 breaststroke! :applaud:

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:29:42 GMT

...... I did give you grief over every conceivable little thing....... Agreed. The initial questions have yet to be answered directly.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

gobears — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:09:30 GMT

Ah yes, the schools that always send their B teams to unload on the Nachos, er... Gauchos. :applaud: :bolt:

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:16:12 GMT

More condescension and elitism. I guess changing your user name doesn't make that much difference. Ouch. Point well taken. My apologies. There are many much younger competitors in their 40's who are competing on the same level as national masters champions. I do have a friend who is 81 and he recently beat the national records holder in the 100 and 200 breaststroke distances (by seconds). He's worked diligently for years to achieve time standards equal to that of his nemesis. My point was not meant to be interpreted in the manner which you did.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

jim thornton — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:15:41 GMT

These incendiary threads, like the Great Influenza of 1918, eventually burn themselves out, agreed? I think, if we are all somewhat honest about it, people who are swimming against one another in their dotage have at least a little bit of the competitive instinct in them, and furthermore, those who swim against one another in their dotage and also spend absurd amounts of time wasting on this forum probably represent an even more competitive subset of the already above average competitive sample group of masters swimmers as a whole. (I don't mean that posters are better swimmers, just that we most likely have even more competitve natures than those who don't post--I stipulate this may be a faulty assumption, but I think there's reason to believe it's true.) If you are still following me, I think what emerges from all this is that we who are still writing anything at this point are doing so not because we expect to change anyone's mind, or even add clarity to the debate. Hell, I don't even know what the topic is anymore. What we share is not so much common love of intellectual give and take but an orientation towards beating other people silly. Just beating the bejesus out of their brainpans till our drum sticks are slippery with cerebral distillium, and the loved ones of the fallen are dry weeping from dry sockets, and we can smell the perfume that is blood rising in our lupine nostrils, and all we want to do is howl and howl and feast on meat! Anyhow, in the spirit of a Hallmark Special on TV, where mortal enemies reach some kind of rapprochement by the end of the two-hour time slot, and peace reigns again in the Happy Kingdom, I propose a fit ending to this oh-so-pleasurable bloodsport of a thread! I think we can agree that they're are only two alternatives: let the thing slowly die off, like H1N1 circa 1918 slowly mutating back to the "normal" 1 in 1000 virulence rate of the vast majority of flu viruses that have swept through earth's history. Call this the ending with a whimper, if you will, one that lacks the oomph such a storied conflict deserves. Or we can end it another way, the way that I propose, a way that will allow this whole business to live on forever, taking on the ever brightening sheen of an Arthurian legend! What say ye? Are ye with me here? If so, let me throw out a cheer, and let this cheer be echoed a thousand times, and each echo, in turn, spawn a thousand echoes more, and so forth, till the whole Earth shakes from the resonance of it: Hail, King Jimby, Lord of the Water! You have won this one--even the most foolish and pigheaded of us must concede this fact! We shall lay our weapons down before thee and accept our fate! Hail to the Conquering Hero of Us All: King Jim Thornton, Whose Goodness Exceeds That of Wencenslas Himself! To this cheer, I answer back, from the deepest well springs of my nobleman's humble heart, "You're welcome! Now will one of you please get this lawyer out of my ass."

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:07:44 GMT

That's not very positive thinking. By age 80, with good genes, and a can-do attitude, anything is possible. If I had good genes, I'd be an elite swimmer. Then I could drink beer and be amused by the pathetic stuggles of a mediocre swimmer like me.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:53:36 GMT

No, they are not. Ever. That's not very positive thinking. By age 80, with good genes, and a can-do attitude, anything is possible.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:43:51 GMT

Agreed. The initial questions have yet to be answered directly. Bah! You both deserved it for starting a trolling thread. I've answered all your questions. I'm too bored and lazy and un-triathlete to regurgitate my responses.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:36:05 GMT

Are there, in fact, any records held by non-elite elitists? I believe that most records are held by non-elitist elites. The rest are held by the elitist elites (most of whom are named Smith).

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:18:34 GMT

Are there, in fact, any records held by non-elite elitists? Yes, men's 40-44 50m ***:lmao:

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:07:16 GMT

Of course they should...especially those sensitive types who like to post vanity shots of themselves and lie about stuff (lawyer up my ass..). The beach photo really bothers you, doesn't it? Look, don't feel bad about yourself, Paul. Abs are overrated. Sounds like you need a proctologist. Oh, wait, can I say that?

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:55:23 GMT

These threads are what we make of them...they constantly morph from what the original poster may have intended. That's why it's important that we make clear what our own "thoughts" on the topic may be...I steered in a direction that resonated with me and that is that there are some very over the top ego's out there and I take pleasure in mocking them...maybe it was not the original meaning but thats where I have based my comments from. As for Gull...he's a "master-baiter" who certainly enjoys what is going on here...and more importantly he hates that an old/fat/beer drinking ass like me likes to on occasion swim his events. Really? I was under the impression you had hatched up the whole thread with the bipolar Mr. Negative Positive. And I'm not sure I explicitly called you an elitist; you must have internalized that. I did give you grief over every conceivable little thing. As a master baiter yourself, you know you enjoy it.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:42:41 GMT

...did Geek ever baail on an Ion diatribe? Ion never lawyered up.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Paul Smith — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:34:50 GMT

Nice try (to use a turn of phrase you're fond of). I said previously that I agree with you that over-inflated egos are fair game. Showboating is one thing -- no one likes a genuine ass. But this whole thread has been about something else. BTW, I've heard you use this "begging for attention" thing before. You can't seriously think Gull is a whiner and begging for attention?! These threads are what we make of them...they constantly morph from what the original poster may have intended. That's why it's important that we make clear what our own "thoughts" on the topic may be...I steered in a direction that resonated with me and that is that there are some very over the top ego's out there and I take pleasure in mocking them...maybe it was not the original meaning but thats where I have based my comments from. As for Gull...he's a "master-baiter" who certainly enjoys what is going on here...and more importantly he hates that an old/fat/beer drinking ass like me likes to on occasion swim his events.

RE: Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

Former Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:28:46 GMT

Jane and Joe usms members who work hard and don speed suits are sooner or later going to take down a record held by an elitist who swam off of a talent base. No, they are not. Ever. But they should not be objects of scorn or sources of amusement in the eyes of the elite swimmers.