Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

aztimm — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:55:04 GMT

The Tyr Aquapel is pretty good substitute, and if you can fit in one of the sizes they have left at swimoutlet.com, the sale price of $12 is pretty unbeatable. www.swimoutlet.com/.../1442-1.jpg Are these sized like a reasonable waist size, or some other mysterious sizing like I've seen for the B70? There's a size 30 available, which is my normal waist size, but not sure how the top portion would fit... (edited to add) well there was just 1 left at that price, so I bought it. if it doesn't fit, I'm sure I can find a home for it somewhere. never owned a tech suit, not even jammers.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

swimshark — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 08:00:32 GMT

Tim, they are pretty true to size. I've been wearing the Aquapel's for 5 years now and love them. I just bought 2 more at this price so now I'll have 4 waiting to wear out. My first one lasted about 4 years of about 8 meets a year. They are great suits and I wish they hadn't discontinued them.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

jim thornton — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:18:21 GMT

I agree with lefty on this one. I have owned and used the Victor, Aquablade, Fastskin I, Fastskin II and Blue Seventy Nero Comp. I swim just as fast in the Aquablade as with the others. All are about comparable to full-body shaving which I won't do anymore because of the discomfort during the re-growth period. The main reason I use full body suits now is that the knee length suits severely constrict my thigh muscles. Too many years of playing defense in association football, I guess. I suppose I could have thigh-muscle-reduction surgery. I agree with both Lefty and Meldyck. I loved my Aquablade and wish I had bought a dozen of them (the high neck knee skin types) when they were en route to being discontinued. I have never felt such a sense of glide, even with the B70, that I got with the Aquablade. And unlike the FS1 that took its place, it didn't feel heavy on distance events or open water swims. The Tyr Aquapel is pretty good substitute, and if you can fit in one of the sizes they have left at swimoutlet.com, the sale price of $12 is pretty unbeatable. www.swimoutlet.com/.../1442-1.jpg If anyone knows where you can still get a body suit Aquablade, please let me know.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

That Guy — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:46:57 GMT

I'm sorry I am a bit of a space alien myself at meets.I get really focused/oblivious.Also after the 200 fly I had no oxygen flow to my brain so I am not responsible for my behavior after that(one could say that swimming the 200 fly was proof I wasn't responsible before that.) Hey results are up! :chug: www.swimoregon.org/.../ResultsTHillsSummerLCM062009Splits.htm

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Allen Stark — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:51:38 GMT

Yesterday @ the Tualatin Hills meet in Oregon, plenty of Masters swimmers were wearing B70's. (And I have no problem with that.) :hijack: Swimmj swam great until her calves cramped up. Hope you're feeling better, Swimmj! Allen Stark got a state record in the 200 butterfly. Great job Allen! I said hi to Allen a couple times; he looked at me like I'm a space alien. I'll have you know I'm proud of my Martian heritage, I learned to swim despite there being no pools or even any water on Mars, and besides the swim cap keeps my antennae down to where you can hardly notice them. No worries, Allen! :bliss: I was happy with my results - despite being untapered and unshaven, I put up three times that have a chance at the top ten. And while the other two times I posted will definitely not threaten the rankings, they were lifetime bests. Also, yesterday was the first time I've ever swum LCM indoors. The pool doesn't seem quite as huge that way! I'm sorry I am a bit of a space alien myself at meets.I get really focused/oblivious.Also after the 200 fly I had no oxygen flow to my brain so I am not responsible for my behavior after that(one could say that swimming the 200 fly was proof I wasn't responsible before that.)

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

That Guy — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:17:54 GMT

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:06:16 GMT

Could Michael Phelps blow everyone out of the water in the 400 IM wearing a non-tech suit? I think the answer is yes, as no person is within striking distance of his record or time at this moment. I doubt the same thing could be said of the 50 or 100 m free though. I don't think that Phelps would win a single gold medal without a tech suit, in fact I don't think he would make the Olympic team. But either way that is just an opinion so I won't try to convice you! However, in comparison to the competition, Phelps best event is the 200 free. The #2 in the wold swimmer in the 200 free, Park Tae-wan is 1.83% slower than Phelps (1:42.96 / 1:44.85). IN the 400 IM Laszlo Cseh is only 0.95% slower (4:03.84 vs 4:06.16). I think Phelps 2nd best event is the 200 IM; his best is a little more than 1% faster than Lochte's best.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:24:19 GMT

I found this interesting. www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../21308.asp Interesting article. The assumption of cause and effect between times and technology is very questionable. Has no one considered the amazing changes in training techniques, stroke technical prowess and the rules that have allowed substantial time gaines? Consider the training. In my day we routinely logged 20 to 30 thousand meters per DAY. Mindless repetition which destroyed shoulders and ambition but rarely contributed to success. Sports science has since proved the law of diminishing returns from this training. Consider the technical expertise these days: just about any age group swimmer has a better, more effecient stroke as compared to Olympic stars of yesteryear. Just watch old tapes of Mark Spitz. Fast guy, but his strokes were far from pretty. We now understand that swimming is a technical sport first, a fitness sport second. Consider the rule changes. Can we even compare the backstroke times of the eightees and early nineties to the times of today? How many swimmers remember the old "bucket turn" or the "suicide turn"? I certainly do and I still do those turns when I race once I get tired and stupid towards the end. The breaststroke is another good example: we were not allowed to completely submerge our heads and the idea of doing a butterfly kick off the wall was nothing short of cheating. The suits are just part of the equation. I might decide to buy one when I am satisfied that my times are good enough to prove me more than just a wannabe pretender, until then I will hammer my natural body into a better torpedo.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:42:29 GMT

To me the most underrated suit is the aquablade. I agree with lefty on this one. I have owned and used the Victor, Aquablade, Fastskin I, Fastskin II and Blue Seventy Nero Comp. I swim just as fast in the Aquablade as with the others. All are about comparable to full-body shaving which I won't do anymore because of the discomfort during the re-growth period. The main reason I use full body suits now is that the knee length suits severely constrict my thigh muscles. Too many years of playing defense in association football, I guess. I suppose I could have thigh-muscle-reduction surgery.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

SLOmmafan — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:57:34 GMT

Phelps could have gone 10 seconds slower in the 400 IM and still been in the top 8 at the Olympics. I just can not buy the a suit (no matter how advanced) would account for 2.5 seconds per 100!! In fact, Phelps 400 IM time from 2002 would have still placed in the top 8 of the finals at the 2008 Olympics. I assume he was in a generation 1 "tech suit", so not exactly a brief but not a LZR by any means either! Is someone out there willing to tell me that a swim suit has accounted for over a 9 second time drop between 2002 and 2008? I don't think so!

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:54:06 GMT

Well, I have a hard time thinking that jammers are "technical suits" since I see 8-yo summer league swimmers in them. Maybe not FS-Pros, but those are virtually old-style paper suits in fancy glossing. But even granting that point... Chris, I was going to wear a FS Pro for the first time tomorrow. . . But would you say my Full skin FS II would be faster?!

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:20:46 GMT

I don't think that Phelps would win a single gold medal without a tech suit, in fact I don't think he would make the Olympic team. But either way that is just an opinion so I won't try to convice you! However, in comparison to the competition, Phelps best event is the 200 free. The #2 in the wold swimmer in the 200 free, Park Tae-wan is 1.83% slower than Phelps (1:42.96 / 1:44.85). IN the 400 IM Laszlo Cseh is only 0.95% slower (4:03.84 vs 4:06.16). I think Phelps 2nd best event is the 200 IM; his best is a little more than 1% faster than Lochte's best. Not even make the Olympic team? No way. Heck, he set the 200 fly WR the summer before -- the one he barely broke at the Olympics (though his goggles filled up) -- using jammers (which I don't consider true "technical suits.") I don't think anyone else in the world has gone that fast yet. Here is a video of the swim YouTube - 200M Butterfly Melbourne Phelps According to this blog, the effect of the tech suits on men averages in the neighborhood of 1.5-2.0%, to put the numbers you gave into some context.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:02:29 GMT

Thanks for the suit info Chris. I was actually looking at the FS-Pro Jammer. I dont know if I would feel comfortable racing with my entire leg covered. Fabric/technology aside, is a jammer better for racing than a brief of the same material? The handful of times I've been on the Top Ten lists have been with a pair of jammers. I've tried the legskins and decided that I like jammers better. Maybe because I prefer the feel of the water? Legskins feel like teflon leotards. (And so far the legskin times are on par with the jammer results, but that may be because they're both not full suits.) As far as trying a full suit, maybe one day. My friend borrowed one at our last meet and he had a big breakthrough in his 200 free. It was convincing evidence that the suit had everything to do with his best time. Perhaps both mentally and physically. He purchased one straight away.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:35:25 GMT

It would be dumb to suggest that Phelps couldn't make the Olympic team if he were to only wear an FSPro jammer, as he has put up times in that suit that would have qualified him. By non-tech suit, I was thinking "speedo brief." I think his best shot would have been the 800 free relay.... Well, I have a hard time thinking that jammers are "technical suits" since I see 8-yo summer league swimmers in them. Maybe not FS-Pros, but those are virtually old-style paper suits in fancy glossing. But even granting that point... The second place finisher in the 200 fly at US Trials was 1:53.86. I don't know what the 3rd place finisher was, but we are talking almost 2 seconds here. So you essentially think a jammer has a 1 second/100 advantage over a brief. We'll just have to disagree about that.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:55:31 GMT

To make the Olympic team, you have to finish in the top 2 at the Olympic Trials and that is much harder (in most events) then making an Olympic final. The 400 IM at trails was so difficult that a 4:09 400 IMer elected not to swim the race because he did not think that he could crack the top 2. That is considerably faster than the 4:13 that was 8th at the Olympics. I'll admit that it is conjecture on my part to assume Vendt would have done the race if Phelps were in a speedo, but isn't conjecture what forums are all about! It would be dumb to suggest that Phelps couldn't make the Olympic team if he were to only wear an FSPro jammer, as he has put up times in that suit that would have qualified him. By non-tech suit, I was thinking "speedo brief." I think his best shot would have been the 800 free relay....

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 05:11:50 GMT

As many have stated before, any record set by the use of a tech suit -or any other mechanical aid for that matter- are really moot. Anyone can swim faster through the use of paddles and flippers than by wearing a tech suit so why not allow them (and a bunch of other aids like snorkels and buoyancy enhancers) too? If FINA keeps allowing swimming to become more and more mechanized, winning and setting records won't mean jack. :2cents: Dolphin 2

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Rykno — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:43:26 GMT

I found this interesting. www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../21308.asp

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

pwolf66 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:22:06 GMT

Anyone can swim faster through the use of paddles and flippers than by wearing a tech suit so why not allow them (and a bunch of other aids like snorkels and buoyancy enhancers) too? Dolphin 2 Would you PLEASE give this a rest. Get some new points or go play with an elevator or do something else other than dredge up the same comment over and over and over and over again.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:54:04 GMT

Ugh. Oh well. I guess if I ever get to a competitive level, I will have to get with the times. Can anyone recommend a suit that is competitive that is not controversial and not terribly expensive (ie: $100 or less) ?

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:52:34 GMT

Not necessarily cause and effect though.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

SLOmmafan — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:55:31 GMT

I think it's all relative to the competition you must face. Take Rowdy Gaines wearing a B70 at the Clovis Nationals - my guess is he would have won and perhaps still set records in a good old fashion swim brief (speedo); naturally the fat paycheck from Blue 70 would not have been included. Could Michael Phelps blow everyone out of the water in the 400 IM wearing a non-tech suit? I think the answer is yes, as no person is within striking distance of his record or time at this moment. I doubt the same thing could be said of the 50 or 100 m free though. Wear whatever works for you. I was in a Speedo faskskin leg suit at Nationals - a tech suit dated back about 7-8 years. I would have just as easily swam in a normal suit if I didn't happen to own the fastskin from prior competition though.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

gobears — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:52:46 GMT

I don't know that my wishy-washy participation in meets counts, but I managed to place second in the 200 *** at the 2008 short course USMS Nationals in Austin in a regular lycra Speedo. That was before the LZR hype during the Olympics last summer though. Things may be very different now!

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Patrick W. Brundage — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:48:35 GMT

I doubt it at the international level and probably not at the elite senior level within USA swimming. Certainly at the age group level in USA swimming. At the Master's level, yes, but I don't have exact stats and the winners at Nationals are predominantly wearing tech suits.

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:20:31 GMT

RE: Any winning swimmers in non-tech suits?

Former Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:18:14 GMT

To me the most underrated suit is the aquablade. I think it is just as good as the FS 1 or FS 2. A Jammer is $50. If you can still find the body suit (goes to knees) that would be a great purchase. TYR might still make their alternative to the Aquablade. Those two suits were exactly the same...