Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

tjrpatt — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:06:37 GMT

Thanks.Also I'll be at T-Hills.See you there(you can see me do the 200M butterfrog).I love LCM.In SCY Breaststroke you spend too much time underwater and not enough swimming. Good luck with your 200 fly. I love a 200 LCM fly over a 200 yard fly. The turns take up so much energy for me. I don't have a 200 fly for another 3 weeks. This is a prelim/final meet so there is an very very very outside chance that I could make finals. Of course, it would be rough to do 2 200 flys in one day. But, overall, doing finals are very very fun.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

That Guy — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:04:24 GMT

No place to hide in Long Course! True dat. I've got an LCM 400 IM coming up next week. I'm hoping that the improvements I've made in breaststroke add up to a tangible time drop. I've been working on distance per stroke for 10 months, and I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. (Allen Stark, thank you for your detailed descriptions - they made me realize that I was never actually taught the whip kick properly; I've basically been frog kicking my whole life. I've tried to do what you described, and it seems to be working.) Anyway the alternative is a very long 100 meters of breaststroke during which I get to watch other people's feet get smaller. That wasn't much fun last summer... Anyone else going to Tualatin Hills? www.swimoregon.org/.../09THBentry.pdf I entered 100 back, 50 fly, 200 free, 200 back, 400 IM. Haven't done the 50 fly LCM since I was 12!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Allen Stark — Sun, 31 May 2009 11:49:39 GMT

True dat. I've got an LCM 400 IM coming up next week. I'm hoping that the improvements I've made in breaststroke add up to a tangible time drop. I've been working on distance per stroke for 10 months, and I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. (Allen Stark, thank you for your detailed descriptions - they made me realize that I was never actually taught the whip kick properly; I've basically been frog kicking my whole life. I've tried to do what you described, and it seems to be working.) Anyway the alternative is a very long 100 meters of breaststroke during which I get to watch other people's feet get smaller. That wasn't much fun last summer... Anyone else going to Tualatin Hills? www.swimoregon.org/.../09THBentry.pdf I entered 100 back, 50 fly, 200 free, 200 back, 400 IM. Haven't done the 50 fly LCM since I was 12! Thanks.Also I'll be at T-Hills.See you there(you can see me do the 200M butterfrog).I love LCM.In SCY Breaststroke you spend too much time underwater and not enough swimming.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

swimmj — Sun, 31 May 2009 11:04:25 GMT

Thanks :) So now I'm trying to figure out what seed time I would use if I were to enter the 2 ***. Three years ago I went 2:58 in SCM, two years ago I went 2:41 in SCY, and last year I went 1:31 for a 100 LCM. But all of those were done with frog kick. Also, for NW Zones I will be tapered and shaven and wearing a faster suit. I've never done a breaststroke event in a taper meet before! So let's see here... Previous times * conversion factors - taper effect / suit factor + shavedown - whip kick improvement factor / wind factor because it's an outdoor pool * pi (you know, curvature of the earth and all that) = :censor: Take a note, sandbaggers, this is how it's done! :banana: ...I could put down something in the 2:50-2:55 range. I need to do more fast breaststroke swims in practice to figure out how much my improvement per 100 really is. Today I was doing IM's so it was hard to tell exactly, but it was a dramatic difference. Fastest practice 400 IM I've done in years. A big part has to do with how good a turner you are compared to others and how much those turns cost you - lots of time underwater in a 200 *** SCY. I will not be tapered next weekend, but will compare to how I did at LCM nats last year. I think my *** has steadily improved, which is fun. It does seem to be a stroke that one can tinker with endlessly. Congrats on your break through in *** - that is really a great way to improve an IM. Hope to meet you next weekend. --mj

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

That Guy — Sun, 31 May 2009 09:36:07 GMT

That is why I starting swimming the 200 *** in LCM. Although last year, I needed a 3:03(did 3:14 at a inseason LCM meet) to make it in the 30-34. But, I couldn't do swim it at my LCM zones due to other events. But, I did do a 2:58 a few weeks ago at a USAS meet. So, If I can do that, I am sure that you wouldn't have a problem going faster than 2:58. Thanks :) So now I'm trying to figure out what seed time I would use if I were to enter the 2 ***. Three years ago I went 2:58 in SCM, two years ago I went 2:41 in SCY, and last year I went 1:31 for a 100 LCM. But all of those were done with frog kick. Also, for NW Zones I will be tapered and shaven and wearing a faster suit. I've never done a breaststroke event in a taper meet before! So let's see here... Previous times * conversion factors - taper effect / suit factor + shavedown - whip kick improvement factor / wind factor because it's an outdoor pool * pi (you know, curvature of the earth and all that) = :censor: Take a note, sandbaggers, this is how it's done! :banana: ...I could put down something in the 2:50-2:55 range. I need to do more fast breaststroke swims in practice to figure out how much my improvement per 100 really is. Today I was doing IM's so it was hard to tell exactly, but it was a dramatic difference. Fastest practice 400 IM I've done in years.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

swimshark — Sun, 31 May 2009 07:55:11 GMT

Not going to Tualatin Hills but I hope you like the entry form. Yours truly did it :) I find there are years when I get in to LCM for the first time and the workout is super hard due to the change. This year the first workout was my first day on a 5 day vacation to Oregon. So jet lagged and in LCM for the first time of the year. But I loved it and it didn't feel hard at all. I live for LCM, though.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

tjrpatt — Sun, 31 May 2009 07:44:43 GMT

Now I wish I had entered a breaststroke event! I'm glad I haven't sent in my entry form for Northwest LCM Zones yet. I might enter the 200 ***. It took 3:09 to make top ten in my age group last year... I think I can do that, although... I've never done 200 *** in LCM... I've done triathlons, but I've never done an open water swimming race. I've been considering entering Fat Salmon this year though. Hope to meet you next week! That is why I starting swimming the 200 *** in LCM. Although last year, I needed a 3:03(did 3:14 at a inseason LCM meet) to make it in the 30-34. But, I couldn't do swim it at my LCM zones due to other events. But, I did do a 2:58 a few weeks ago at a USAS meet. So, If I can do that, I am sure that you wouldn't have a problem going faster than 2:58.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

That Guy — Sun, 31 May 2009 07:09:56 GMT

I'll be there - not doing any of your events, though. I think I am doing all the breaststroke events and the 100 fly. I did my first open water swim today - 2K and it was fun. Hope to see you at t-hills. --mj Now I wish I had entered a breaststroke event! I'm glad I haven't sent in my entry form for Northwest LCM Zones yet. I might enter the 200 ***. It took 3:09 to make top ten in my age group last year... I think I can do that, although... I've never done 200 *** in LCM... I've done triathlons, but I've never done an open water swimming race. I've been considering entering Fat Salmon this year though. Hope to meet you next week!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

swimmj — Sun, 31 May 2009 06:56:40 GMT

True dat. I've got an LCM 400 IM coming up next week. I'm hoping that the improvements I've made in breaststroke add up to a tangible time drop. I've been working on distance per stroke for 10 months, and I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. (Allen Stark, thank you for your detailed descriptions - they made me realize that I was never actually taught the whip kick properly; I've basically been frog kicking my whole life. I've tried to do what you described, and it seems to be working.) Anyway the alternative is a very long 100 meters of breaststroke during which I get to watch other people's feet get smaller. That wasn't much fun last summer... Anyone else going to Tualatin Hills? www.swimoregon.org/.../09THBentry.pdf I entered 100 back, 50 fly, 200 free, 200 back, 400 IM. Haven't done the 50 fly LCM since I was 12! I'll be there - not doing any of your events, though. I think I am doing all the breaststroke events and the 100 fly. I did my first open water swim today - 2K and it was fun. Hope to see you at t-hills. --mj

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

That Guy — Sun, 31 May 2009 06:47:35 GMT

I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. Major Breakthrough Alert!!! Today I figured it out! Immediate, dramatic, and most importantly, reproducible improvement! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sun, 31 May 2009 05:39:48 GMT

Yeah, it's pretty amazing how the shoulders can tell exactly where 25 yards is in the 50m pool. When I started swimming age 16 my HS team needed a butterflier and the HS coach was also coaching the summer AAU team. The closest 50m pool was 60 miles away so we only got to train there 2 weeks right before championships 5-6 am or so. I had to "borrow" Dad's car (not always OK with dad) to make the drive and sneak back home 80mph before he woke up. Coach would enter me in the 200m fly and 400m IM in meets that summer. I wasn't sure if he wanted me to just quit or if he figured that the time I would need to finish, he could go get lunch and still have time to get back before I touched. For a novice swimmer, crappy fly, no conditioning, I distinctly recall on the turn at 150m of the 200m fly getting so discouraged because I couldn't even see far enough to see the end of the pool. Somehow no DQs/DNFs but definitely DFL-ed. Thank goodness we got a transfer student that year who was a terrific flier. This year I didn't go through the switch from SCY to LCM with any difficulty on the arms, just on the barefoot kick sets. Our usual pool has a pretty good counter-clockwise current, so it is about 45m going downstream and about 55m upstream. When the bulkhead is mid-pool during SCY season, it's not quite as noticeable.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

some_girl — Sun, 31 May 2009 04:39:33 GMT

We only get to train LC when we are on training trip, so about 13 workouts a year. I adore it, but the first workout, I always have to to psych myself up: "You know it is long; it will feel shorter tomorrow; just focus and breathe." I have crappy turns and hate holding my breath, so I love that I have so much more time to breathe!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

orca1946 — Sun, 31 May 2009 02:46:04 GMT

I like fly, but it is forever to the wall!!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2009 08:46:26 GMT

Short of swimming open water, it's a lot easier to count.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2009 08:23:45 GMT

The other two things about long course are 1) it's uphill both directions and 2) both the wind and pool currents are in your face both ways. That said, I'm ready to punish myself for another summer...

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Paul Smith — Sat, 30 May 2009 07:57:29 GMT

No place to hide in Long Course!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2009 07:22:47 GMT

I can't help but what does LCM mean? Also, is SCY short course yards? LCM = Long Course Meters = a pool 50 meters in length SCM = Short Course Meters = a pool 25 meters in length SCY = Short Course Yards = a pool 25 yards in length The U.S. is the only country in the world that competes and keeps records in SCY, in addition to SCM and LCM. Everyone else in the world competes in SCM and/or LCM. World records are kept for the SCM and LCM courses, but not for the SCY course.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2009 06:26:34 GMT

Whenever I've stood on the block and looked down the length of a 50m pool I swear I can see the curvature of the earth.

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2009 06:23:18 GMT

I can't help but what does LCM mean? Also, is SCY short course yards?

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

tjrpatt — Sat, 30 May 2009 05:33:29 GMT

I hate when people at practice look at you with amazement that you can do a full LCM lap of fly without stopping or doing the "one arm butterfly thing". I understand that it is a compliment but really, it is no big deal. Has anyone seen a 100 meter or yard pool that I heard were around in the early 1900s? Talk about fun swimming!

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

smontanaro — Sat, 30 May 2009 05:08:31 GMT

My first swim this year in LCM was the 5k postal I did a couple weeks ago. Talk about a rude awakening! I've had a couple other long course swims since then and look forward to more this summer. Skip

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

ViveBene — Sat, 30 May 2009 04:26:53 GMT

I find myself drifting off course a lot... Must use OW sighting techniques. Land ho! :)

RE: Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

art_z — Sat, 30 May 2009 02:59:55 GMT

First day yesterday back in the local long course pool. That first LC swim is always a rude awakening. You get to concentrate on your swimming a great deal more, which is a plus, but wow, where is that wall??? I remember taking my first breath in the 100 fly at LCM nationals a few years back and have my heart sink as to how far away the other end of the pool was. 100 back wasn't much better, because that race is more about "distance feel" than other since you really can't see whats approaching, you get used to expect the wall to come up at a certain stroke count, and the rest of the time you are just flying blind. LCM is definitely a tougher race for those of us that never train it.