Wetsuit time conversion factor

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Thu, 06 May 2010 15:44:05 GMT

I think that's it, in a nutshell: If you trust people's impressions, opinions, or non-controlled timed swims, you'll find some fraction of decent swimmers who are (or believe they are) slower with a wetsuit. If you prefer to trust only carefully controlled timed swims, then the fraction of swimmers who don't improve with a wetsuit is very small. I guess I was one who believed a wetsuit would not benefit me that much (because of anecdotes / opinions). Boy was I wrong.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Thu, 06 May 2010 13:06:40 GMT

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 05 May 2010 09:57:33 GMT

Alex's best 1500 in the pool at the time was near 15:15 (in this neighborhood). He reported being disrupted by the limited range of motion that a wet imposes compared to swimming without. He hated swimming with a wet because of this. If the suit fits properly then motion should not be limited. But folks at that level are VERY particular so who am I to say they are wrong!

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 05 May 2010 06:49:32 GMT

Do explain. I cannot imagine this is true. Wait, a person missing both arms might be faster in a speedo than a full sleeve wetsuit. I don't think that is what you meant. Alex Leduc, winner of 1996's edition of International Traversee Lac St-Jean once did the first leg of a tri, wearing a wet suit. Alex's best 1500 in the pool at the time was near 15:15 (in this neighborhood). He reported being disrupted by the limited range of motion that a wet imposes compared to swimming without. He hated swimming with a wet because of this. There's at least a study that confirmed this fact, although I could not find it to include a reference to it to this post. So basically what I meant was that if you're an ultra fast swimmer, used to very large volumes of training (to win an FINA World Cup Event, gotta train at least 60-80k per week), that has a sophisticated high elbow (recovery / pull through) stroke, with a very efficient and economic two-beat kick may endup being slower performing with a wet full sleeve wetsuit.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 05 May 2010 05:36:30 GMT

Alex Leduc, winner of 1996's edition of International Traversee Lac St-Jean once did the first leg of a tri, wearing a wet suit. Alex's best 1500 in the pool at the time was near 15:15 (in this neighborhood). He reported being disrupted by the limited range of motion that a wet imposes compared to swimming without. He hated swimming with a wet because of this. There's at least a study that confirmed this fact, although I could not find it to include a reference to it to this post. So basically what I meant was that if you're an ultra fast swimmer, used to very large volumes of training (to win an FINA World Cup Event, gotta train at least 60-80k per week), that has a sophisticated high elbow (recovery / pull through) stroke, with a very efficient and economic two-beat kick may endup being slower performing with a wet full sleeve wetsuit. I too hate the feeling of swimming in a wetsuit (or a tech suit, for that matter). It doesn't mean that I'm swimming slower in it, just that it is unfamiliar. Was this person wearing a sleeveless wetsuit? Hard to believe it would affect his ROM. I don't have them handy right now, but I've seen a number of controlled studies of very fast swimmers (college level with training volumes similar to what you describe and presumably "sophisticated" strokes, whatever that means) with and without the wetsuit. The wetsuit always helped. I haven't used one often, but the only time I feel like it actually hurt my performance was when it filled with (a lot of) water.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 05 May 2010 05:16:12 GMT

I’ am one of those occurrences. In last years Alcatraz Challenge, I bested all of the wetsuit division going naked. Granted I felt very good, even though it was a first time Alcatraz swim for me, I think my navigation was spot on. However I was very surprised to have beaten the 19 year old who won the wetsuit category but I have since formed a theory. The swim was to Christy Field overall direction was to the southwest. There was a headwind coming in off the ocean that formed a chop. I believe the additional buoyancy of the saltwater and wetsuit, caused the wetsuit wearers to catch sail in the wrong way and get pushed back, where as I swam through the chop. www.tricalifornia.com/.../Alcatraz Aquathlon09 Results.pdf I think your explanaiton is possible and pretty "funny". I don't think you could have known that was going to happen before the race, though, so I would stick to wearing a wetsuit whenever allowed.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Tue, 04 May 2010 08:10:06 GMT

I've also seen occurrences where some swimmers would be faster without a wet compared to swimming with one. Quite a large margin. Do explain. I cannot imagine this is true. Wait, a person missing both arms might be faster in a speedo than a full sleeve wetsuit. I don't think that is what you meant. I’ am one of those occurrences. In last years Alcatraz Challenge, I bested all of the wetsuit division going naked. Granted I felt very good, even though it was a first time Alcatraz swim for me, I think my navigation was spot on. However I was very surprised to have beaten the 19 year old who won the wetsuit category but I have since formed a theory. The swim was to Christy Field overall direction was to the southwest. There was a headwind coming in off the ocean that formed a chop. I believe the additional buoyancy of the saltwater and wetsuit, caused the wetsuit wearers to catch sail in the wrong way and get pushed back, where as I swam through the chop. www.tricalifornia.com/.../Alcatraz Aquathlon09 Results.pdf

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Mon, 03 May 2010 15:01:56 GMT

So I did the set again this time in the XTerra wetsuit. I did the first one on 19:42 and the second in 19:26 My average pace per 100 went from 1:22.8 to 1:17.7 (6.1% improvement) I think of equal importance was the stroke deterioration (or lack there of). I took 32 strokes on the 2nd 50 of my first 1500. I took 32 strokes on the last 50 of the 3,000 too. It was FUN to look at the clock and see that I was holding under 1:20.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Mon, 03 May 2010 07:24:30 GMT

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Mon, 03 May 2010 06:16:01 GMT

I've seen rare occurrences where it would make a 10s/100 impact. I've also seen occurrences where some swimmers would be faster without a wet compared to swimming with one. Quite a large margin.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 03 May 2010 03:35:09 GMT

And where did the 2 percent figure come from? Mark Schubert made it up.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

jim thornton — Mon, 03 May 2010 02:41:01 GMT

The conversion factor for the Blue 70 pool suit is 2% at the moment :bliss: So this equates to about 1.2 seconds in the 100 m for those who can swim it in 1 minute flat? What is the conversion factor for non-floaty body suits, like the FS1? And where did the 2 percent figure come from?

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:13:32 GMT

I ordered an Xterra wetsuit last week and will be doing an experiment for fun. Well "fun" is probably not exactly accurate. I did two LCM 1,500's on 22:00. I wore a FS1 leg skin. Results were: 20:57 and 20:43. I will do two again next week with the week with the wetsuit and report...

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Fri, 01 May 2009 16:36:32 GMT

Eagleman is a lot of fun anyway. The Bay is a lot of "fun" too! :-)

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

orca1946 — Fri, 01 May 2009 06:13:00 GMT

I havealso read that a minute is a good guess.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Rykno — Fri, 01 May 2009 04:39:51 GMT

two years ago the girl who one a 3km river race wore a regular pool tech suit and some swim expert said that her time could have been 2:30-3:00 minutes faster comparing to the guys times, who one in a westuit. in a pool I swim about 6-7 secs faster per 100m. this morning I swam for the first time in a lake with my new wetsuit and we did around 2km in just over 30min. but we stopped alot to complain about the 54F water.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:29:33 GMT

Rob, I'd love to do it but I think I'll bag the Bay swim in the future in favor of Eagleman, which is a sure thing but has an earlier entry date and fills up. The whole raffle thing really turned me off. this year will be my 4th bay swim... the third year in a row that i got through on the lottery. its easy enough to get your name on the list, and if another event takes priority; they will have no problem filling the spot. (no rubber on me.... but you already knew that)

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:57:25 GMT

this year will be my 4th bay swim... the third year in a row that i got through on the lottery. its easy enough to get your name on the list, and if another event takes priority; they will have no problem filling the spot. Sure...but to reserve my spot in Eagleman, I would have to pay for that race well before the Bay swim entry deadline. This year I didn't enter Eagleman, gambling (incorrectly) that I would get in the Bay swim. I'll take the sure thing from now on. Eagleman is a lot of fun anyway.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:54:11 GMT

The conversion factor for the Blue 70 pool suit is 2% at the moment :bliss:

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:27:53 GMT

Thanks. Hey Ruffwater-I'm putting 2+2 together and betting you are the same Rob Jones that nearly took it to the youngsters the last few years at GCBS. Way to go. Good math, Tree. I've been hammering that race for the last eight years. I wear the wetsuit to stay competitive with all the other guys who wear them - No way I'd place where I do without it. Here is a real life analysis of what a wetsuit can do in the Bay (4.4 miles): Bruce Brockschmidt and I have swum that race together since 2002. Every year we each wear a wetsuit, Bruce has beaten me by from a few seconds up to 3 minutes. Last year, Bruce did NOT wear his wetsuit. Instead he wore a Fastskin. I wore my wetsuit and beat him by 4 minutes. I'm guessing going sans wetsuit slowed Bruce down by at least 5 minutes (don't know how much the FS helped him versus briefs). Probably cost him a victory. So, again, I'd say a properly fitting wetsuit can save you approx 1 minute a mile. (a poorly fitting wetsuit can actually slow you down). Oh... and thanks for the kind words, Chris. Next year, I'm sure you'll make it through that crazy GCBS entry process. Missed you at Zones.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:21:34 GMT

(a poorly fitting wetsuit can actually slow you down). Oh... and thanks for the kind words, Chris. Next year, I'm sure you'll make it through that crazy GCBS entry process. Missed you at Zones. Definitely true about the "poor fitting" part. I wore a wetsuit for an aquabike competition, tons of water sloshing around the legs during the transition after the 1.2 mile swim. Awful. Rob, I'd love to do it but I think I'll bag the Bay swim in the future in favor of Eagleman, which is a sure thing but has an earlier entry date and fills up. The whole raffle thing really turned me off.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:59:59 GMT

But I think technical suits ("swimskins") are less of an aid then wetsuits, which are warmer and more buoyant. Why ban one and not the other? many of the ow swimmers i know won't participate in races that don't at least separate the wetsuited from the nekked. the bay swim is the perfect example; perhaps pool events should also have separate divisions.... it would make everyone happy except the event directors.

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:42:06 GMT

Thanks. Hey Ruffwater-I'm putting 2+2 together and betting you are the same Rob Jones that nearly took it to the youngsters the last few years at GCBS. Way to go. I have made a committment to go without a wetsuit this year. I can't turn back. My coach would give me too much crap. I've worn one for the last 3 years and I hate it. Too hot, too much chaffing. I swam the GCBS 3 other times in the late 80's without one and figure its worth seeing where I am. No other real reason or attempt to make a political statement. That being said, the technical suits should be banned though. Moot point; its like trying to put wooden rackets back on the tennis court or real wood clubs into Tiger's golf bag. Water temp is approximately 61 right now depending on where you measure it. A group of us are swimming in the Severn River next week.(about 3 miles from the bridge). 6 weeks to go, keep training. Tree

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:22:45 GMT

much like every other aid: users like to claim minimal assist (5% or less) while non-users like to claim greater assist (10% or more). my belief is the advantage is probably greater for a slower swimmer with poor balance than for a faster swimmer with superb balance, but body type also certainly factors in the equasion. i'm sure that clears things up....lol

RE: Wetsuit time conversion factor

Former Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:03:18 GMT

I have found a wetsuit can/will take about 1 min off your mile, or about 4 seconds per 100 yards/meters in the open water. Of course, this is proportional to speed.