200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Gdavis — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:34:26 GMT

Very nice Guy. Is your target meet Zones or Nationals? A favorite set for the 200 was 10x50 on 1:00, hold race pace. You want to hold 28s (flat) to the feet. Did you rest, shave, taper, tech suit for this last meet? If not, dropping 2.5 seconds at your taper meet seems doable. I don't think you need to go out any faster on your first 50 for your goal. Going out in a 25 high, 26 flat seems appropriate for a 1:50. It might be a good idea to do a couple 50s from the blocks whenever possible for time, shooting for 25.5 or 26 low to the feet consistently. The key to the 200 is consistency, or, lacking that, a very high pain tolerance. Hey Mike, thanks for the suggestions. This meet was one of the two regional meets I have been focusing on since I started racing again, but this year I will likely also go to nationals where I may take another shot (although unfortunately the 200 is scheduled just after another of my events). I was 75% rested and semi-tapered for this meet. I don't shave (too old for that!) but I wore my b70 - (I suit up in my big meets so it's like shaving for me.) Even so, I think I can shave a bit more time with a bit more prep and a fast meet. How have your recent meets been going?

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:47:25 GMT

How have your recent meets been going? I slipped on some ice and bruised my ribs the day after Christmas, so I missed several meets. A few weeks after being able to swim again, I swam a 2:02. Nationals is my next 200 free scy meet.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Rykno — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:13:22 GMT

the 20th I swam a 200m fr it was far from my best time, but I felt so strong at the end, I couldn't believe that I remember thinking after about 75m that I better hold back a little now if I plan on making it the whole 200. I swam 31.15 1:05.11 (33.96) 1:40.06 (34.95) 2:13.83 (33.77) next time I will shoot for 31 33 33 33 matches my best time but is swam more evenly. last time I swam 1:02 /1:08

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:29:57 GMT

Interesting kick in the Davies clip. It's like a 3- beat, or a 1.5 kick each side. It's called a two beat cross-over kick. The .5 kick impression that you have comes from the fact that both feet are touching each other. Great job GBrain. Looking forward to see your next 200m clip. It'll probably look different than the one where you did 2:20 (if I'm not mistaking on time). Well done!!!

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:14:50 GMT

Goal update: Goal 1:50 SCY or equivalent. Latest swim at regional meet: This year 1:52.51 25.86 54.11 (28.25) 1:23.62 (29.51) 1:52.51 (28.89) Last year at same meet for comparison 26.77 29.22 (55.99) 29.15 (1:25.14) 28.30 for 1:53.44 So this year I took it out much harder (which I have to do to get closer to my goal) but had a slightly weaker back half. 3rd 50 was too much of a fall off from the 2nd. But this gives me confidence to try to swim a similar race next time and with better turns (at least 3 I was too far from the wall) and swimming a bit fresher (last year was first race of the day - this year 3rd race) and with luck make further progress. I'm going back over thread to pick out some 200 conditioning sets for the next few weeks! Very nice Guy. Is your target meet Zones or Nationals? A favorite set for the 200 was 10x50 on 1:00, hold race pace. You want to hold 28s (flat) to the feet. Did you rest, shave, taper, tech suit for this last meet? If not, dropping 2.5 seconds at your taper meet seems doable. I don't think you need to go out any faster on your first 50 for your goal. Going out in a 25 high, 26 flat seems appropriate for a 1:50. It might be a good idea to do a couple 50s from the blocks whenever possible for time, shooting for 25.5 or 26 low to the feet consistently. The key to the 200 is consistency, or, lacking that, a very high pain tolerance.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Gdavis — Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:32:50 GMT

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:05:49 GMT

So, excuses made, my time/splits: 29.26, 32.60, 33.37, 31.94: 2.07.17 (Highly ambitious) Goal pace was 29.5/31/31.5/31 +/- for a 2.03+ Hey Guy, Nice drop. Have you split your last 3 50s that close to your first 50 before? 1.5s seems really tight, but if you have done it before, I am sure you can do it again. If you figure out how to successfully go from generalist training to 200 specific, you let me know :)

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:53:52 GMT

Q - Congrats on bringing it down a little more :) I predict you will not "break 2:00"... but crush it! What is the January meet? Thanks Ahelee. The January meet is a local USAS BB meet the 8th-10th. It is at a new 50M pool and this will be their first USAS meet to host... The good news is that the 200 is the first event of the last session (5 session meet), so they should have most of the kinks worked out, and there should be minimal sitting around. The 200 Free will be the only event I swim at this meet. A vs BB Meets: North Texas splits meets up by age and time. For the older kids, the split is the "A" motivational time standard for 15 and over which is why I care about breaking 2:00.09. All the A meets are held at 50M facilities, and thus you have warm up and cool down lanes. About half the BB meets are held at 50M facilities.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Gdavis — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:25:31 GMT

Thanks Michael. For me the 200 is all about the last 150 - my first 50 sort of takes care of itself as I have gotten back enough speed to (theoretically) to hit my goals. In the back of my mind I'm thinking in my ideal race I might go out as quickly as 28.5 and then have a little to play with in the rounding on the back end. But the overall performance will be all about sustaining the back end. My challenge is all about speed endurance - i.e. establishing and maintaining "easy speed" into the mid 100 and then hanging in on the last 50. When I was a kid I swam down to the 200 from a 400, now I'm trying to swim up to it from a 100 - much harder!!! Good job on your 200 progress - a great place to be mid-season. Keep well.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Gdavis — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:33:39 GMT

Goal Update. This weekend was my SCM taper meet. Last year I swam 2.09.5 in the meet, but I had a better 200yd (converted) swim in the meantime. Positives going into the meet: Consistent workout regime and yardage, good progression into speed lactate work, no serious illness or major aches and pains. Negatives going into the meet: unable to swim fast enough in workout to hit pace goals (eg in broken 200sets), weak tune up meet performances with no 200s, 200free late in the meet (2nd day of meet after 2 swims earlier in the morning). So, excuses made, my time/splits: 29.26, 32.60, 33.37, 31.94: 2.07.17 (Highly ambitious) Goal pace was 29.5/31/31.5/31 +/- for a 2.03+ Analysis: 1st 50 goal pace, 2nd 50 1.5 sec below goal pace, 3rd 50 -weak- nearly 2 sec below goal, 4th 50 1 sec below goal. My wall work was poor in the second half of the race. So, goals going forward - strengthen mid section of the race by working closer to race pace in workouts (easier said than done). Also need real focus on 200, but I'm still in generalist mode. I can get good drops at the taper meets, but I need to be much closer to goal pace leading up to meet. Overall very happy with my meet performances, but the 200free was one of my weaker swims.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

dsyphers — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:46:43 GMT

Thanks Dale. It was great to meet you too. Congratulations on your meet with special kudos on tackling the 400IM last event. You Maine Blue Lobsters are a tough crowd. I have ended my alcohol suspension which, alternating with ibuprophen, is my soreness recovery strategy - I'll guess you're enjoying a similar change of pace!:chug: You bet!:chug: I'll tell you, though, I haven't felt that kind of lactic acid pain in a long time, if it wasn't as bad as when I finished a 26 mile marathon many years ago then it certainly rhymed. Cheers!

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Gdavis — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:09:19 GMT

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

dsyphers — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:49:04 GMT

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:55:29 GMT

Update: Previous 200 free scy 200 free: 2:01.56 split 27.38 29.73 31.96 32.49 Swam a 200 free Friday at a meet. 200 time: 2:00.82 100 splits: 59.00/61.82 50 splits: 28.09/30.91/31.25/30.57 I wanted to go out 27 high, so 28 low was fine, but my second 50 dropped off too much. I needed to be 29 high or 30 low on the last 3 50s. My kick was solid the entire race, but I could have gone all out sooner with the kick. Turnover needed to be higher, and my back needs to pull my arms through the water instead of my shoulders and tris doing all the work. At the end of the 3rd 50, my shoulders and tris started to lock up and I said to myself, "pull with your back dumb :censor:". No problem finishing the race, and you can see that it didn't hurt my last 50. I probably had another 50 in me at that pace. I have potentially 3 more 200s before my taper meet in Feb if I break 2:00 at the next meet in early Jan. Current goal: break 2:00 at first meet in January. Work on: - kick - tempo (temo trainner) - pacing (50s at race pace, broken 200s and 200s for time with splits)

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:58:18 GMT

Update: Previous 200 free scy Swam a 200 free Friday at a meet. 200 time: 2:00.82 100 splits: 59.00/61.82 50 splits: 28.09/30.91/31.25/30.57 I have potentially 3 more 200s before my taper meet in Feb if I break 2:00 at the next meet in early Jan. Current goal: break 2:00 at first meet in January. Work on: - kick - tempo (temo trainner) - pacing (50s at race pace, broken 200s and 200s for time with splits) Q - Congrats on bringing it down a little more :) I predict you will not "break 2:00"... but crush it! What is the January meet?

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

tjrpatt — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:33:29 GMT

Now this is an example of a high head position (i.e looking forward)- his goggles are just under the surface. This is something that I've always had but am trying to work out of my stroke for a more face-down head position. Not saying this is wrong, just that it's the method I use for freestyle. Oh, December goal for 200 free is sub-2 in a jammer SCM. Well, Davies is a Olympic medalist in Open Water. That could be one reason for the forward head position. In addition, He is using the 1990s method like myself. Coaches have been telling me for the last 15 months to keep my head position down and my body is finally starting to listen. :applaud:. Of course, it is not there yet. That reminds me to get some snorkel use in!

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

__steve__ — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:27:45 GMT

Interesting kick in the Davies clip. It's like a 3- beat, or a 1.5 kick each side.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Speedo — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:16:07 GMT

HAHAHA, I obviously copy-and-pasted the wrong video... that one was for some school friends. I'm a total noob to the forums. Sorry for messing up your thread, qbrain. Here's the ACTUAL video I meant to post: YouTube- David Davies Underwater Now this is an example of a high head position (i.e looking forward)- his goggles are just under the surface. This is something that I've always had but am trying to work out of my stroke for a more face-down head position. Not saying this is wrong, just that it's the method I use for freestyle. Oh, December goal for 200 free is sub-2 in a jammer SCM.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:45:06 GMT

HAHAHA, I obviously copy-and-pasted the wrong video... that one was for some school friends. I'm a total noob to the forums. Sorry for messing up your thread, qbrain. Here's the ACTUAL video I meant to post: YouTube- David Davies Underwater Haha! My threads and muppets usually have a lot in common, but I will tell you that if you click the pencil icon on the lower right hand corner of your posts, you can go back and edit them after the fact :) Ok, so you are starting you pull sooner to shortening your stroke, increasing turnover, and you still think this takes less effort? That seems counter intuitive, but that isn't uncommon.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:29:56 GMT

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:26:27 GMT

Glad I could help! When I shortened my stroke, I spent much less time out front with my arm straight. I started pulling alot more soon than I used to. It's almost as if the arm enters bent at the elbow to make the catch. In TI (the way I used to swim), it's enter, straighten the arm, glide, THEN bend the elbow and pull. The back half stayed much the same, although I don't use the exaggerated "kick-back" you see in TI videos. I'm still working on it, but it feels as though I'm actually torqueing through the water with more power. There's a very good above water vid of Pal Joensen swimming like this: www.youtube.com/.../svimjing

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:50:50 GMT

SCY: 139:99; Slowly, albeit painfully, getting back into shape... 1:55 from a push last week at the end of a grueling set. Didn't feel all THAT bad... ugh. I practice 3x times a week, hopefully more come spring! I am a 200-1650 kind of guy. Wow, you know how to set goals. 1:39.99 is blazing, but if you are doing a 1:55 from a push, it is a totally realistic goal. Thanks for the advice on shortening my stroke. I have to do something to pick up the tempo. When you shortened yours, did you move to a more front quadrant stroke and chop the back half much shorter, or did you have a completely different strategy? You know of all the videos I have watched of Laure Manaudou, I have never noticed the length of her stroke. Thanks for that list, you have just done half the research for me.

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:04:10 GMT

SCY: 139:99; Slowly, albeit painfully, getting back into shape... 1:55 from a push last week at the end of a grueling set. Didn't feel all THAT bad... ugh. I practice 3x times a week, hopefully more come spring! I am a 200-1650 kind of guy. qbrain: Very smooth, pretty stroke! I'm jealous! That said, you may want to try shortening your stroke length (and thereby increasing the tempo), particularly in the 200. Up until last month, I took around 10-11 strokes per length (I have orangutan arms), and maximized the glide portion of the stroke as much as possible. Now, I take about 13-15, instead focusing on an "instant catch" and minimizing the "dead zone," where deceleration occurs. This really helps me save my legs: In order to keep my momentum steady, I had to kick like a madman. I think I was too focused on the TI philosophy: Long, "effortless" strokes utilizing an exaggerated "catch up" pull. Problem was, I had to do keep up that six-beat kick in order to swim FAST. That sort of swimming was just too taxing for anything over a 500, at least for me, and I now use a two-beat kick to go faster with much less effort. Since this seemed a bit counterintuitive, I decided to investigate and watch a bit of swim vids. I noticed a bunch of successful mid-distance and distance swimmers using a higher turnover with shorter strokes (NCAA champ Troy Prinsloo, olympic champ Kieren Perkins, 1650 record-holder Chris Thompson, Chad LaTourette, Yuri Prilukov, Federico Colbertaldo, Pal Joensen, Laure Manaudou and, of course, Janet Evans). If you take shorter, faster strokes, you breathe more often, too :) Here are a couple of movies: YouTube- Freestyle swimming - 2004 Olympics YouTube- 2 Men's 1500m Freestyle Final European Short Course Championships Rijeka YouTube- 2008-2009 UGA Swimming vs UNC Men's 500 Free Long story short, I think you've got to find a stroke that really helps you maintain a consistent "easy speed." For me, that stroke was a shorter, faster one. It might work for you, too. Either way, I'm positive you'll be able to hit that goal soon... you seem to be on the right track!

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

Former Member — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:13:37 GMT

Just a status update, I am going backwards in my 200 free goal. Luckily my 50 and 100 seem to be on track. My goal is to break 1:50 in the 200 free scy. Yesterday I swam a 2:20.21 scm, which translates to around a 2:05.mid. My last 200 was a 2:01. My splits were: 33.48/36.18/36.78/33.77 1:09.66/1:10.55 2:20.21 7 lanes of competition, I was in 3 seeded with a 2:15 and the guy in lane 4 was seeded with a 2:06. This might have thrown me off, since the last 200 I went out too fast and died hard. This time around I went out slow and never picked it up. I need to swim my own race. YouTube- Mike 200 free DAM SCM 2009

RE: 200 Challenge: Goal time, roadmap and status updates

BillS — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:56:45 GMT

Hey guys, swam at my first USA-S meet in 15 years this weekend. I would like some analysis if you would be so kind. My goal was to break 1:58. To do that I needed 27 high followed by 3 29 highs. I swam one event Friday, Sat and Sun, the 50, 100 and 200. I was very nervous for my 50 all day, and I think it affected my swim a little, but the 100 and 200 I felt comfortable. 50 free: 24.41 100 free: 54.0x split 12.0 13.7 14.4 14.0 My turn off the 2nd wall was deep, got stuck on the touch pad high. 200 free: 2:01.56 split 27.38 29.73 31.96 32.49 I think I have read those splits somewhere before... I went out too fast, and died. If I would have gone out .6 slower on the first 50 and .2 on the second, would that have made the difference to bring home the back 100? I do agree that it would make a difference, but based on my other times, I think I lacked the conditioning to split that 200 correctly and hit my goal time. The strength was there, just not the endurance. Please criticize. I even welcome comments from pwolf. I've been working on my 200 for a few years now. I think it's conditioning. I'm roughly the same speed as you, 50 pr is a 24 flat, 100 is a just under 54, and I share your goal time. Here are my splits from Austin Nationals: 39 Sumerfield, Bill H 47 OREG 2:04.00 2:00.68 27.53 57.71 (30.18) 1:28.75 (31.04) 2:00.68 (31.93) and a year later at Clovis: 24 Sumerfield, Bill H 48 OREG 2:00.68 1:59.40 27.69 57.73(30.04) 1:28.09(30.36) 1:59.40(31.31) Note the same basic pace in both swims. I think the difference in the second swim is just due to better conditioning (although the Austin swim was a huge breakthrough for me. That 2:04 seed was a real, recently swum time coming in). Once I can get that fourth 50 down closer to 50s 2 & 3, I'll work on trying to take it out harder, but I'm obviously still dying at the end with my pace now. It's hard to find that happy medium between going out too soft and having a slow race and going out too hard and barely hanging on at the end. 200s of all strokes hurt a lot, but it's my favorite distance. You get to go pretty fast, there's strategy involved, and you don't lose the race completely in one little bobble like in a 50.