Youtube Video

RE: Youtube Video

rtodd — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:17:26 GMT

There is a discrepancy there. Should be maybe 1-2 sec difference.

RE: Youtube Video

Stevepowell — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:55:18 GMT

You can see some good pullouts in the video of the men's 200 breaststroke at worlds in Rome: YouTube- Gyurta edges Shanteau for title, from Universal Sports Thanks Lyndsy, it seems as though they are being towed, they are moving so fast! After messing around with pullouts, some kid in the next lane says he timed me at 15.5 (25y) from the block. Now when I time myself from a push (wrist stopwatch), I get about 20-21. Does that make sense?

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:05:59 GMT

sjstuart, thanks for the explanation. Now I need to do some research... You can see some good pullouts in the video of the men's 200 breaststroke at worlds in Rome: YouTube- Gyurta edges Shanteau for title, from Universal Sports

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:34:15 GMT

You definitely need to do a full pullout. I.e. full underwater stroke cycle (pull, kick, glide) after your dive rather than just popping to the surface. rtodd labeled it a "disaster" because it was completely missing, and you gave up 1+ seconds of free speed.

RE: Youtube Video

Stevepowell — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:15:24 GMT

sjstuart, thanks for the explanation. Now I need to do some research...

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Stevepowell — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:48:42 GMT

Thank you Nadine and Chris and all for an excellent experience. Without 25's I wouldn't have tried anything except 50 free. No apology for not helping me since I didn't ask for any help and thanks for the invite to your social and sorry we couldn't make it. Rtodd, What is a pullout disaster? How about that , I am actually good at something!!! Whoohoo! :bliss::bliss: It doesn't make any sense though, *** is what I swim to recover from free. Just slow heads up breaststroke/sculling until I catch my breath and heart rate comes down.

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rtodd — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:56:14 GMT

That was quite good. Excellent turnover. Basically 17 seconds with a pullout disaster. You can be under 30 with starts and turns.

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NKMD — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:54:42 GMT

Steve, Sorry I did not help you with your strokes . Next time, let us know who you are and I will assist you with your stroke. I do a lot of drills to help you feel the stroke. In addition, Chris Colburn, who is an excellent coach, was also there. Send me an email, you are welcome to swim with us if you want. Thanks for coming to our meet. Nadine

RE: Youtube Video

Stevepowell — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:10:05 GMT

Here is my first attempt at Breaststroke, Danville Masters meet had 25's!: YouTube- Breast25.wmv

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Former Member — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:01:08 GMT

qbrain, do you think it's possible to get as much power and speed from an I pattern as from an S pattern? Yes, more actually. And I think several swimmers here have converted to I from S recently, myself included. I am not talking about the windmill nonsense sprinters are doing at the end of a 50, I am talking about a straight line from entry to exit point through the water. I am pretty sure we are talking about the same thing, just want to be clear.

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Stevepowell — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:05:22 GMT

Thank you qbrian, steve, rtodd, pwolf66, sharpsburger, and fritznh. The clips of Popov and Thorpe are excellent! Summer league and winter AAU age group untill 14 or 15 years old or so I can't remember exactly when. No high school or college swimming. My stroke dates to 1962 when I learned to swim. Hence the battle with rotation. Quote from qbrain: "Uh... did you ask them to help you with your stroke? If you would have asked them to show you EVF, you would have gotten a better visual than we can provide. I bet at least one of them would have been proud to show off their knowledge." Your advise was well taken, they helped as much (time) as they could spare then recommend I sign up with another former IUer Gary Hall Sr. at the Race Club. Doc Hall said to forget about hip and body driven free and to focus on shoulder driven rotation. It turns out that my rotation was coming from my arms pushing on the water to rotate my core -- I was doing it backwards! You can see in the last clip (77) the difference it makes. Unfortunately, swimcation is over and I am back in frozen Indiana. It will probably be some time before there is an opportunity to take more video. The amount of energy wasted using arm driven rotation was considerable since it now seems much much easier to swim. Now I need to "grind it in" (c) Ande The staggering differences between self perception and reality are the reason feed back from you all is so very valuable. Happy New Year all!

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:19:23 GMT

If you do want to try an S-pattern, a nice drill to accustom your elbow to the bend is to swim with your thumb drawing a line from your nose to your navel. Then when you add the wider and deeper catch back in, and sweep your thumb to a position below the Y of your sternum, you should be doing a comfortable S. qbrain, do you think it's possible to get as much power and speed from an I pattern as from an S pattern? I know some sprinters now use a shortened straight-arm stroke, which is powerful but very energy-intensive. But this is the first time I've heard anyone actually recommend pulling straight back with a bent elbow. (But mind you, I've been out of the pool many years, and am new to swim forums.) I don't see how that could be as powerful or streamlined as an S stroke. I'd think if you had 2 swimmers otherwise equally matched, the S stroke would win every time.

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:30:23 GMT

I'm not seeing an S-pattern on the arms. It's still paddle-wheel. I don't agree with Sharpsburger that you need to be pulling in a S pattern. If you goal is S pattern, than follow his tips, but if your goal is I pattern... Paddle wheel is when you pull in a straight line with with no elbow bend. In your last video, you have started to bend your elbow. When you are paddle wheeling your hand moves in an arc from start to finish of your pull, but what you want to do is get your palm facing backwards then pull in back in a straight line (I pattern) or follow Sharspburger's instructions for S pattern. They both catch the same, but with an I pattern you will want to enter wider, because you don't outsweep at the beginning of the stroke. I think you need to focus on one thing at a time. Keep working on catching the water early, you are on the right track with that. The next step is rolling you body. Body roll is important to lengthening your stroke so you get more distance for the same amount of effort. S pattern vs I pattern is probably something you will decide based on what is most comfortable.

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fritznh — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:01:27 GMT

Hey Steve, I have a few hopefully helpful comments... One thing I notice is that your elbows are collapsing near the end of the stroke. If you look closely at Popov's freestyle, his initial catch is fantastic -- he plants his entire forearm into the water and propels his body by his arm. OK, a handful of people can do that, but it shouldn't keep us from trying! Your elbow drops just after your catch, perhaps due some to flexibility. My shoulders are pretty tight which I notice more in backstroke. Your head position is good and your alignment looks straight (your spine is straight, as it should be!) but then your elbow comes pretty close to your body in the last half of your stroke. This makes your hand slide through the water and you loose propulsion. I'd suggest trying to keep your elbow away from your body as you rotate your hip. Think of the sequence as plant and throw...plant your hand and forearm as an anchor into the water, then throw your hip as you accelerate your hand past it. Your shoulders and hip should rotate as a solid body, and your spine should remain straight as you move your body by your hand. But keep your elbow out and high, that should help. You should probably be looking at 14 to 15 strokes per lap instead of 18 to 20 with no increase in effort. Keep your core muscles engaged during the stroke so you have something to pull against, and see if that helps. Cheers and happy new year...

RE: Youtube Video

rtodd — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 02:10:20 GMT

Like others have said, you are not rotating and swimming on your side. Do this 6 kick switch drill. Here is Popov doing it. YouTube- Alex Popov Roll Over Drill Here is a breakdown of the freestyle technique. YouTube- Popov - What's the Limit? (Part 3) YouTube- Popov - What's the Limit? (Part 4)

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:49:34 GMT

I'm not seeing an S-pattern on the arms. It's still paddle-wheel. Once you get a catch, which should involve some outward movement of the hand/forearm, you should be increasing the angle at the elbow and curving your hand inward and upward toward your body as you pull. Then as you transition to a push, pivoting outward again toward the exit alongside your thigh. You might want to try using a hand paddle with only the middle-finger strap attached. That will keep your hand oriented correctly toward the greatest resistance against the water. If you do otherwise, you'll find the paddle slips off of your hand. The underwater portion of your front crawl stroke, ideally, can be summarized as: * Hand slicing into the water, with forearm and elbow following in the same slot, shoulder extending to maximum reach. (If you hear a "plop", correct your stroke.) * Hand moving downward toward still water, thumb down. * Hand moving outward slightly to the "corner", elbow up. Hand now oriented toward back of pool. * Elbow bends as hand moves toward solar plexus, body rotates along long axis so that navel is facing bottom of pool. * At about crux of sternum, hand is at closest position to body, hand still facing back wall of pool. * Stroke transitions from pull to push, major power phase, thumb sweeping from sternum to hip. * Hand ends past hip, pinkie down, hand toward side of pool. * Recovery initiated from elbow, hand and forearm passive, like drawing a gun from a holster.

RE: Youtube Video

Stevepowell — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:23:51 GMT

YouTube- IMGP0077.AVI

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Former Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:20:49 GMT

Your catch looks better.

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rtodd — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:06:41 GMT

Totally agree with Paul. You need to spend time with some Total Immersion drills.

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pwolf66 — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:44:01 GMT

YouTube- IMGP0077.AVI Steve, This video more than any of others shows me the following: 1) Get your head down, you're looking forward so your head is not in alignment with your spine and is causing your hips to drop putting you in an 'uphill' position (look at how far your rear is under the surface) 2) You are swimming extremely flat. Very limited shoulder roll and what hip roll there is is lagging your shoulder roll. I would suggest distance per stroke drills with fins where you focus on two things: 1) get your stroke as long as you can by reaching as far forward as you can. 2) 'riding the rails' - overexagerate your body roll so you are getting on your side at the end of each roll You arm position and catch are good but you are not getting any real power from them since you are in such an uphill and flat position.

RE: Youtube Video

__steve__ — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:39:19 GMT

That looks alot better to me too. You are actually moving faster than it appears, yards, right?. Like mentioned above, try crabbing water further out in front. Question, did you swim prior in life as a kid or in college or did you start from scratch, old, like myself?

RE: Youtube Video

rtodd — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:25:20 GMT

Getting there. Try to make a deliberate pause at max extension. YouTube- Ian Thorpe swimming freestyle 5 - front view

RE: Youtube Video

Former Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:22:40 GMT

Here in sunny Naples FL the pool yesterday turned out to be a Councilman swimmer reunion. There was a 3 generation trio of women where the grandmother swam for Doc before NCAA sports, she didn't say when but she's 65, her daugher who swam for IU and her daughter who went to Councilman camps. Two guys from Chicago who swam for Doc sometime back when. Uh... did you ask them to help you with your stroke? If you would have asked them to show you EVF, you would have gotten a better visual than we can provide. I bet at least one of them would have been proud to show off their knowledge. EVF is something you can work out out of the water, with the benefit of being able to stop, use mirrors, look around, etc. From a standing position, stand in superman (not full speed with fist, cruising speed with hands flat). Your hands are about shoulder width apart. Now drop one arm, so you can focus on just the other arm. Lock your wrist, there should never be any bend in the wrist (at least for this exercise). Now, the goal is to go from one arm superman to your palm facing the floor while keeping your hand as high off the floor as possible. That path with be the same path your hand takes in the water. For me, from superman, the hand travels down in an arch to palm down position at about 6'4" from the ground (I am 6'2"). My upper arm is in line with my head, and my forearm and hand are 90 degrees to my body. If superman is 12 o'clock, my elbow moves to 1 o'clock to allow me to keep my hand as high as possible. Once you are happy you are doing the right thing, you can do both hands at the same time. Then you can bend over and do them with stretch cords SLOWLY. The idea isn't really to build strength, but to become comfortable with the path your hand needs to take from superman to EVF catch position. Light stretch cords work the best because you are just looking for enough resistance so you have something to pull against. Once you figure it out and transfer it in the water, you will be able to tell a difference. One thing you will notice pretty quick is that you are using some new muscles ;)

RE: Youtube Video

__steve__ — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:33:10 GMT

To me it feels like I am holding EVF, the camera shows otherwise! :confused: You are catching in the position but your pulling down from there.

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Stevepowell — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:25:06 GMT

Thanks Steve, 12 Mpix. To me it feels like I am holding EVF, the camera shows otherwise! :confused: Back to the swim lab. I am taking Ande's advice and have turned Christmas shutdown into a swimcation (c Ande). Here in sunny Naples FL the pool yesterday turned out to be a Councilman swimmer reunion. There was a 3 generation trio of women where the grandmother swam for Doc before NCAA sports, she didn't say when but she's 65, her daugher who swam for IU and her daughter who went to Councilman camps. Two guys from Chicago who swam for Doc sometime back when.