Tech Suits and Coaching

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:39:20 GMT

I have seen both. Some club teams around here have kids swimming with something between a bent and a straight arm recovery. Others focus on a high elbow. Personally, I am not a big fan of high elbow. I think it leads to a lot of stress on the shoulders. I prefer somewhere in between, like what Marsh was talking about. I think kids see some of the sprinters doing straight arm and want to copy it without reallying know why or the proper way to do it. Parents may push it on the kids or the kids see fast times and copy the way the swimmer swims. I don't think there is a right and wrong way. Straight arm, high elbow, somewhere in between isn't right or wrong...it is an individual preference.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:56:09 GMT

I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. In Jonty's article he was talking about how the new suits allowed the less efficient but more powerful "straight arm catch" versus the "high elbow catch" (emphasis mine) It seems to me that all the discussion above concerns the straight arm or bent arm recovery. Quite a different thing altogether. Am I mistaken? Rich...Geek and I kinda highjacked the topic. You are right...we just took it in the overwater phase of the stroke.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:03:32 GMT

My experience around a large club team is different. Straight arm is back in vogue, big time. Geek...have a lot of master's on your team switched? What distances do they swim? Or is it more the club team? What is the ratio of male:female that have made the switch?

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

aquageek — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:41:26 GMT

I agree and as to adult swimmers we really just find the stroke mechanics that do the least harm.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

aquageek — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:24:12 GMT

Geek...have a lot of master's on your team switched? What distances do they swim? Or is it more the club team? What is the ratio of male:female that have made the switch? On our USMS team we have been working a lot on the catch and catch-up drills, so not necessarily a straight arm focus. I do think catch up forces more straight arm. We've also been turned away from finger tip drag/zipper drills, which tend to emphasize high bent arm. I was referring more to the age groupers. I've definitely noticed more straight arm free swimming in the past six months. This shouldn't be construed as a blanket statement, just my general observation at our club, which is big however. What are you seeing these days on this topic?

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Rich Abrahams — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:21:59 GMT

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:27:43 GMT

I am sure if you put in less effort and have less skill you will not win. I think I can guarantee this. Anyone can write anything and so many will believe it, as I say lots of gullible readers here.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:15:02 GMT

Jonty Skinner wrote a very good article discussing the challenges of coaching in the facing of changing technology with suits. www.goswim.tv/.../swimming-in-the-next-dimension.html The article is a little “Long Winded” but I get the author’s idea: These suits enable you to swim faster with less emphasis on effort and skill. On this subject, there was an article on suit technology in a past issue of USMS Swimmer Magazine in which a coach at a university in Colorado (Mel Dyck I recall was his name) who said something to the effect that “……He was all for tech suits because he was able to spend less time training”. I guess his statement eloquently sums up what was in inferred the article The next "innovation" in suits will be several layers of bubble wrap laminated between the inner and outer surfaces for increased buoyancy so the problem of maintaining body position and floatation will also be a thing of the past. :agree: California Dolphin

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

mctrusty — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:09:03 GMT

I am sure if you put in less effort and have less skill you will not win. I think I can guarantee this. Well put. Bernard might not grind out the 200s in practice but I'd bet that he can outpace a lot of people in the weight room. There's another option he didn't mention: someone comes in swimming fast as hell and raises the level of competition around them.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

mctrusty — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:26:49 GMT

This is totally made up. Most of the best sprinters today use the bent elbow style. Klim and Bousquet were doing straight arm way before the LZR. Nothing changed. Lezak has a nice high elbow.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

aquageek — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:00:32 GMT

This is totally made up. Most of the best sprinters today use the bent elbow style. Klim and Bousquet were doing straight arm way before the LZR. Nothing changed. My experience around a large club team is different. Straight arm is back in vogue, big time.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:00:31 GMT

You used to see the odd high-elbow swimmer in the thick of the 50; now you don’t. They used to be in the thick of the 100; now they’re rare. This is totally made up. Most of the best sprinters today use the bent elbow style. Klim and Bousquet were doing straight arm way before the LZR. Nothing changed.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:03:11 GMT

Definitely a well written article!

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

The Fortress — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:42:58 GMT

Very interesting article. I wonder, though, about his claim that the suits allow the French to win using "inferior" technique. Despite the fact that many elite sprinters have switched to straight arm freestyle, there still seems to be a stigma that it is inferior. If it's faster, it doesn't seem "inferior" to me ... Perhaps it's "superior" for sprinting, but not other distances. His article also doesn't persuade me that swimming shouldn't continue to incorporate new products and suits. Here is the latest on suit technology: FINA to review all high-tech suits Mon Dec 22, 2008 By Associated Press The Speedo LZR suit, displayed by a host of Australian swimmers, will be analyzed by FINA in early 2009. GENEVA (AP) -- The high-tech swim suits that helped produce more than 100 world records this year could be in for a new look. Swimming's governing body said Monday it will take "appropriate action" when it meets March 12-14 in Dubai. Members will get reports from a coaches' forum next month in Singapore and a Feb. 20 meeting of suit manufacturers at FINA headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland. That meeting also will feature FINA technical committee members, swimmers, coaches and sports lawyers. "FINA is looking for the collaboration of all the partners in this area, so that final decisions can be globally accepted and fully understandable by the swimming worldwide community," the federation said in a statement. Any change in FINA rules could be in place for the 2009 world championships in Rome from July 18-Aug. 2. There have been 108 world records since Speedo's LZR Racer suit became available to swimmers last February. The suits were designed and tested with help from NASA. Other manufacturers followed with their own high-tech suits. FINA was criticized for upholding the suit designs for the Beijing Olympics and not providing a clear definition of what's an acceptable suit and a "device" that enhanced performance. Opponents say the suits create changes in buoyancy levels and amount to "technological doping." Fifteen national teams at the short-course European championships in Croatia two weeks ago signed a protest letter urging FINA to set better guidelines regulating the suits. USA Swimming has petitioned the governing body, requesting that suits "shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulder, nor past the knee." Swimming Australia joined the debate last week. It wants FINA to stop approving new suits and enforce a rule restricting swimmers to wear one suit at a time. Some competitors have worn two and three suits in races to create a more streamlined body shape and prevent the stretched material from splitting. FINA has commissioned research from an unidentified university to examine the thickness of new suits and design a test that will determine whether they are "credible" within the sport.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Tim L — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:02:05 GMT

Interesting perspective. I guess Ande's training methods make a lot of sense in the tech suit era. Tim

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Allen Stark — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:00:56 GMT

Very interesting article.I think the point is that the new suits reward power over endurance.It has been said that training for SCY should be different than for LCM.This article seems to be saying that we should train for LCM like for SCY.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:06:48 GMT

Do you really think that you have to change coaching technique for the hytech swim wear. My some of us are gullible. No suit should be allowed if made with any floating products such as neoprene even if is a brief never mind to the knees.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:51:00 GMT

Very interesting; thanks, Mike.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:15:10 GMT

The primary take away that I got from reading this article was not whether the French were inferior or not (Leslie, how can you say that! ;) ), what I take away from this is that the suits make coaching more of a challenging. Not only must you consider the current suits when coaching, but you also must consider the future suits. Should I teach my 8 year olds to swim with a stroke that works well with the suits that they wear now or should I encourage them to use a stroke that will work better with the tech suits that they will wear in 8 years. I think many coaches, myself included, haven't thought much about changing strokes to fit the current suits, let alone the future suits. What I took out of it was very similar; that coaching needs to adapt (or does it?) to the "future" of swimming. For me, my philosophy is to have my swimmers out of the tech suits for as long as possible (as long as they are competitive), and move on from there. When they start to enter into the National arena, then we'll look at the tech suits and how to make the minor stroke adjustments at that point (which, hopefully, won't be too many or too significant). Possibly, that is the wrong theory to have, but as the article mentioned, there is no suggestions as to where the swimming world (tech wise) is going...other than faster!

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:02:27 GMT

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

SLOmmafan — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:38:09 GMT

I am a little perplexed as the why the suit itself would significantly change the technique that is being taught by coaches. I really feel that the growth in competitive swimming over the past 8-10 years has more to do with sponsorship money, which might have a trickle down effect on the push for more technological suits. Fact is that there are now multiple top tier swimmers making high 6 figure or even 7 figure endorsements (not counting the crazy amount Phelps is earning). I don't think these opportunities existed much more then a decade ago. I would be curious to see what kind of endorsements existed for guys like Rowdy Gaines and Matt Biondi (in the 80's, not the Endless Pool and other gigs found in recent times).

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

BillS — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:37:43 GMT

I thought the implication was that the French were simply lazier than the americans, not necessarily inferior. I understood Jonty to say that they work less than we do and swim with what he considers to be technically inferior technique. Yet they have somehow mastered the art of covering 50 or 100m faster than most of the competition, which he attributes in part to their early adaptation to the available technology.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Redbird Alum — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:02:13 GMT

Do you really think that you have to change coaching technique for the hytech swim wear. . I do think that if such suits are allowed and their use allows differing stroke technique over longer courses (as in Jonty's straight arm free example), then yes, coaches of swimmers destined for Olympic calibre need to think about such things. Very interesting article.

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

The Fortress — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:53:59 GMT

I wonder which suit their swimmers competed in? Of course they were wearing tech suits. That report sounded grim, yet it's still hard for me to believe FINA would outright ban the LZR, B70, TYR, etc. And it makes no sense to me to permit those suits, but only to the knees. I don't disagree that better regulations for suit approval could reasonably instituted. And I approve of the limitation to one suit. But will they really try to put the genie back in the bottle? A genie that was on display at the Olympics? If they do ban these suits, I don't think there will much coaching adaptation needed. And, Mike, de ne couler pas!

RE: Tech Suits and Coaching

Jim Clemmons — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:38:13 GMT

Fifteen national teams at the short-course European championships in Croatia two weeks ago signed a protest letter urging FINA to set better guidelines regulating the suits. I wonder which suit their swimmers competed in?