Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:12:05 GMT

I guess everybody is entitled to pick their own form of self-abuse. But I think there is a reason that jockeys hold back the thoroughbreds a little. Once you die, you are shot. And by you, I mean me. If I tied up at the 150 yard mark, there is no way I can gut out that final 50 in a way that lets me get even close to my best time. I think the 200 is like surfing a wave of lactate, or whatever compound it is that exercise physiologists now credit with that bodily lockjaw phenomenon so familiar to swimmers enduring "death." You just can't become toast too early. The most I can personally hang of with arms turned to tungsten is 10-15 yards. Look at the guys who win the Olympics. They all have the energy to do spirited fist pumps. When you really die hard, you can barely lift your arms above your shoulders... LOL!! So true...so true! :agree:

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:27:26 GMT

So we have learned that Ahelee and Ex-distance guy and maybe Qbrain are into pain, and Jim Thornton likes to keep a little reserve for the celebration.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

orca1946 — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:57 GMT

NO, last time was in college. Ill state univ about 1967

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

jim thornton — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:21:00 GMT

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:54:50 GMT

Anyone else here advocates for the 3rd 50 strategy for the 200? I always swam my best 200 yrd with a brisk-paced relaxed 100, then basically build-to-sprint the 3rd 50, 4th 50 is whatever you have left. This usually guaranteed that I "left nothing in the pool". My best 200 is 1:42.7 (3+ years ago). From this summer on I plan to participate in some masters and open meets, I would like to get as close to 1:40 as possible again.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:51:17 GMT

I am a little scared your plot here will teach the beaten dog part of your brain that the 200 is a horror to be avoided at all costs. I think I am well acquainted enough with the 200 already to have my brain well trained in how much it sucks. If I liked doing things the easy way, I wouldn't have gone to Carnegie, right? Or you could say that my brain being perfectly smooth prevents me from learning from past pain, and allows me to continue to beat my head against the 200 :) I do find it odd that you think swimming a 500, 100, 50 and 200 is easier than swimming 200, 100, 50 and 200. There are 300 yards of hard swimming in there Mr. Thorton. Did you notice that? Most of my friends and enemies would say this is a lot of events for a 1-day meet. But I happen to think this schedule looks awesome to train and prep your 200 free. I bet you swim faster in the 2nd go at the 200 Free. Stay hydrated, loose and warm during the meet. If you happen to run into DAMM head coach, Jim Montgomery, ask him to give you some "inside expertice" on the 200 Free!!!! Good luck - let us know how it goes. You called it Ahelee, this meet is purely 200 racing practice for me. I will be amazed if I swim the second 200 faster than the first. If so, I guess I will need to work on my warm up skills :) Jim swam at the meet last year and I have not been to a local meet where he was not present, but I have never talked to him. If he swims at the meet this year, there is a good chance we will be in the same heat.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:54:44 GMT

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:57:55 GMT

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:42:04 GMT

Strategy question. www.clubassistant.com/.../meet_information.cfm Given that order of events, my plan is to swim #10 500 free, 200 for time, 300 ez. #18 100 free #26 50 free #32 200 free The goal is to get as much true 200 free racing that I can. Any suggestions for alternatives, or is this a decent plan? Most of my friends and enemies would say this is a lot of events for a 1-day meet. But I happen to think this schedule looks awesome to train and prep your 200 free. I bet you swim faster in the 2nd go at the 200 Free. Stay hydrated, loose and warm during the meet. If you happen to run into DAMM head coach, Jim Montgomery, ask him to give you some "inside expertice" on the 200 Free!!!! Good luck - let us know how it goes.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

jim thornton — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:23:20 GMT

The one thing I personally would caution you about, and keep in mind that I am a wimp, is that if you do an all out 200 split on the 500 (then easy 300) followed by an all out 100 followed by an all out 50 followed by another all out 200 at the end of the meet, you might be teaching a part of your brain--no doubt a small part of your brain, but a large part of my brain, that is, the pain experiencing lobe--that the 200 swum right is an agonizing event! I think there is a reason that child birth can't happen again for a minimum of 9 months! The mother needs time to forget the previous ordeal. I am a little scared your plot here will teach the beaten dog part of your brain that the 200 is a horror to be avoided at all costs. What about doing the 500 fairly hard as a gauge of your aerobic shape, the 100 all out as a fast-twitch/slow twitch test; the 50 all out as a fast twitch test; and then the 200 as fast as you can do it trying to put all the pieces together? That's what I would do, though it's really too bad the 500 comes first...

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:10:54 GMT

Thanks for everyone's input. I had just hoped to get an idea if I needed to increase the number of workouts I am doing, and ended up getting a lot more out of the thread. This is what I am doing: 5 workouts/week. 3 with the team and 2 on my own. My coach knows my goal and is working with me to meet it. During the team workouts, the main set will be on the fastest pace I can hold, with an eye towards dropping the pace. This is a problem, because this pace is faster than what the rest of the lane can hold and there is no faster lane nor more lane space right now. Doing one set on a faster interval seems to be fine with the lane. The rest of team workout I will focus on six beat kick, technique, turns and steamlines. The on my own practices will focus on sprint work, hard 200s, lots of kick and the back half of practice being aerobic pace work. Lift 3x/week My target meet this year is Zones at the end of March The realistic target for breaking 1:50 is 2010 SCY season. What I don't have pool space to do is race. The team pool has blocks, but no space, and the on my own pool has space but not blocks. I can probably get a good amount of start practice in, but not much 200 race from a start practice. Something that I would like to have that I will just have to deal with.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:58:48 GMT

Ahelee: Good idea. Speedo: I think I need to work at swimming faster specifically, not just put myself under more physical stress. The team practices just provide a logistics problem to doing this.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Speedo — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:05:53 GMT

During the team workouts, the main set will be on the fastest pace I can hold, with an eye towards dropping the pace. This is a problem, because this pace is faster than what the rest of the lane can hold and there is no faster lane nor more lane space right now. Doing one set on a faster interval seems to be fine with the lane. I'd suggest finding a way to add more resistance then (drag suit, etc). If you're still dropping the lane then maybe work in some breathing drills to wind you a little (ex. break the 200s into 4x50s of 8 breaths-4 breaths- 8 breaths- 4 breaths). This will tire you and make it more difficult to make the interval the rest of the lane is using. Just a thought.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:00:25 GMT

What I don't have pool space to do is race. The team pool has blocks, but no space, and the on my own pool has space but not blocks. I can probably get a good amount of start practice in, but not much 200 race from a start practice. Something that I would like to have that I will just have to deal with. I would swim that 200 Free in every meet possible. You can even swim a 200 Free "time trial" at the beginnning of any longer freestyle race and then use the remaining yards to swim down. Swimmers do it all the time...

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:08:44 GMT

You need to be absoutely familiar with the distance at race speed. In college we would race once a week. You learn a ton that way. It is difficult to do that in masters. When I broke the 1:50 barrier I knew precislely what my splits would be. I knew when I would breathe, at least on the first 100, and last 25. I didn't know about SDKs back then but, had I incorporated them in my plan, I'm sure I would have known how many I was going to do at each wall. This time standard has fond memories for me. I had trained very hard with a 1:49 in mind all season. At championships, I swam a 1:50. My coach saw how devistated I was and let me lead off in the 800 free relay. I broke 1:50 by .2 seconds. I have never swam a 200 faster. Plan and race, race race.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:06:07 GMT

Gosh, I couldn't even break a 1:50 as an age group. I think that I did a 1:51 but it was my 7th best event. Tom: I couldn't break 1:50 as an age grouper either, and that was the point. Can I break 1:50 as a Master's swimmer who hasn't done it before? (Yes) And am I getting in enough practices to realistically break 1:50? (No) I am increasing my practices from 3 to 5, all 4-5k yards/workout, to make that No a Yes. You are welcome to join me in breaking 1:50 :) If you do a broken 200 of 4 x 50 with 10 second intervals, you will missing out on three flip turns. Flip turns use up oxygen. You will also be getting an extra 30 seconds of rest you won't be getting in a race. Syd: Good advice on swimming full 200s from the blocks. I will be taking that advice. As for the broken 200s, I don't think 4x50 is what some of the other posters had in mind. When I think broken 200 set, I think of something like: 1x200 for time, rest 1 minute 2x100 sum time, rest 30 seconds between 2x75,50 sum time, rest 20 seconds between 4x50 sum time, rest 15 seconds each 200 time faster than the previous, last 200 faster than race pace The way I look at it is, if the coach says broken X set, broken refers to me at the end of the set and X just happens to be the distance being used for the torture.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:21:09 GMT

At championships, I swam a 1:50. My coach saw how devistated I was and let me lead off in the 800 free relay. I broke 1:50 by .2 seconds. I have never swam a 200 faster. What a cool coach. I love cool, smart and thoughtful coaches...!

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:58:50 GMT

Michael, while 10 x 50's @ .45 (holding 27's) and similar sets might be great aerobic training tools, you still need to race a full 200 in practice to get a sense of the distance as a whole. I'm not knocking their value at all ( I do them myself) but you need to put the whole thing together (without any breaks at all), feel the pain of the lactate build up and work out how to still maintain perfect stroke while enduring it. If you do a broken 200 of 4 x 50 with 10 second intervals, you will missing out on three flip turns. Flip turns use up oxygen. You will also be getting an extra 30 seconds of rest you won't be getting in a race. My advice, aside from doing the aerobic sets others have suggested, is to (at least once a week) do a, timed, 200 from the blocks. Plan your race ahead of time. Set goals for each 50, 100 and see how close you get to them. Work out how many SDK's you are going to take off each wall, when you need easy speed and when you need to ramp it up. Analyze it afterwards and see where you did well and where you can improve. Make sure you are well rested before each attempt and treat it just as you would at a meet. Then when you race it in a meet you will be confident you will be able to reach the goals you have set for yourself.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:12:57 GMT

stillwater: I don't think I have ever been able to repeat sub 1:00, so if I could pull that off, I am sure I could shave a tenth off my best time. I will keep that set in mind. Learned how to 6 beat kick the entire race ... practiced it on almost all my freestyle sets in workout except the easy stuff Really worked on improving my catch and high elbow throughout the pull (I had a tendency to let my arms fall and do more of a straight arm pull). My dream is to one day look like this underwater: www.youtube.com/watch Ramped up workouts in the ~7 weeks prior to the big meet from about 12K to low 20K per week Good stuff Patrick. I didn't think I dropped my elbows until I watched Thrope's video. His elbow might actually bend differently than mine, but it something else I need to work on now. My target yardage is 20-25k spread over 5 practices starting this week, which is about 8 weeks out from zones. James: Join me in breaking the 1:50 barrier, especially since you implied I am old :) so you must be in a different age group. Maui Mike: It is always reassuring that yardage isn't my issue, speed is. I need to increase reps right now, because I think I can only pull a couple faster than race pace right now. ehoch and Jeff Commings: Will this 200 IM be the Pay Per View main event for Masters Swimming 2009?

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

tjrpatt — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:25:17 GMT

Gosh, I couldn't even break a 1:50 as an age group. I think that I did a 1:51 but it was my 7th best event.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Jeff Commings — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:47:46 GMT

Working on your Freestyle ? I am working on my Back and *** -- I plan on being about 1 sec behind you after the *** in our next 200 IM .... And I plan on not pulling an Alain Bernard and letting you reel me in on what will surely be a painful freestyle leg.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:37:38 GMT

"Maui Mike: You make it sound so easy. But I agree, if I can hold sub 27 on 10x50 on 45, I should be ready." You can work to that set by increasing the interval and/or decreasing the number of reps --- the goal is to swim a lot of fifties at better than race pace and to be able to cruise 'em through the first few fifties and descend throughout the set. I've never done this as a master, but did drop my time from 1:57 to 1:48 in my freshman year of college (back in the sixties) on about 3500 yds/day, doing tons of fifties with what would now be considered as too much rest.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:31:26 GMT

Learned how to 6 beat kick the entire race ... practiced it on almost all my freestyle sets in workout except the easy stuff Yes - you have to use your "race stroke" in practice at all times. For a 200, you have to 6 speed kick the entire way - so there is no reason to ever do less of a kick in workout. what kind of kick sets ehoch does I happen to have a very good Free kick (not so good in Fly). Don't do anything that special -- I used to move down one lane and do main sets kick - 1200-1500 on a 1:30-35 base long-course. Last season I did some fast 50 kick 50 swim sets in yards - 5x100 on 4 minutes trying to stay under 60. Kicking is important - but I have also seen people swimming faster than me, that were nowhere near to me in kicking

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

orca1946 — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:49:00 GMT

No, only as a college swimmer back in the 60's. At almost 63 , I do free ,Im's & fly.. Las t year @ state I did a time that put up a qual time for the 1,000 free.

RE: Did you break 1:50 in the 200yd fr as a Master's swimmer?

Former Member — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:49:24 GMT

a lot of recent freestyle work for my 200 IM. Since I am not a freestyler, I have had to work harder to make my freestyle better, but it's paying off. Working on your Freestyle ? I am working on my Back and *** -- I plan on being about 1 sec behind you after the *** in our next 200 IM ....