Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:38:07 GMT

Portland was pretty hot, sorry about your ill effects....I was lucky and swam in the earlier parts of the day, but on my last day there I swam the 100 free about 5:30 and don't know how folks stayed through the day with that heat. The reaction pads on the blocks were burning hot. We went on vacation after that, heading up through Yakima back to the Sound for another week - was even hotter until we got into the mountains. Yes, I need more distance off the turns. I seem to have lost lung capacity and need to regain the discipline to work on that part, it is definitely not part of my routine. Maybe that's why I prefer LCM and open water! DV

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

BillS — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:41:42 GMT

Dave's excuse: This summer at Portland I swam a 2:13 LCM, which should convert into the 1:56-57 range if one believes the tables. DV Hey, I remember that swim: Heat 18 of 26 Timed Finals 1 Rodriguez, Rick A 46 OREG 2:25.97 2 Keen, John M 45 FACT 2:24.74 3 Nelsen, Steve N 48 PCAT 2:22.60 4 Sumerfield, Bill H 48 OREG 2:22.00 5 Varner, David J 48 FXCM 2:22.14 6 Sikora, Rod 48 DAMM 2:23.80 7 Campbell, Chris 47 MVM 2:25.91 8 Bragg, Robin 48 OREG 3:27.92 You checked out on me rather early, as I recall, and unlike Mr. Thornton I was unable to come back on you. I think I was really dehydrated from the heat for that race. I had leg cramps on the last 50, and basically just dragged them home. That was a great swim; you put the hurt on some of the folks in the faster heat, too.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

knelson — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:08:51 GMT

Dave Varner would appreciate any and all input, especially on swimming. The obvious thing to me is you're not getting much distance off the walls. Your head seems to be popping up before the flags, although it could just be the camera angle.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

BillS — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:13:50 GMT

I fully understand seeding conservatively. After some unfortunate experiences using converted times, I typically seed my most recent time in the same course rather than a converted time. Sometimes I end up beating that time by a fair bit if it's been a while since I swam it, but I know it was a real time. Actually, I was curious to see where you guys were prior to this swim. I swam an :00 at Austin, and am hoping to break that magic barrier this year. When I saw your seeds, I wondered how close they were to your prior swims. Your outstanding swims gave me some hope that I can get there. Good job. Each of you do 10 x 25 SDK underwaters on :40 as absolution, and you're off the sandbagger hook. At least with me.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

Former Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:31:52 GMT

Dave's excuse: Seed time was my best from Zones last spring, where I swam the 1000-500-200-100-50 and two relays over 2 1/2 days. This summer at Portland I swam a 2:13 LCM, which should convert into the 1:56-57 range if one believes the tables. Being early in the season, with just a day or so preparation, I opted for a more conservative seed time. It was a good summer, was able to train consistently, and I was not sure that the switch to less mileage and short course had not slowed things up a bit. Not interested in sandbagging in this case, generally just take pot luck with a seed time around my recent best. In coming years I hope to retain fast times like Mr. Thornton, on the other hand a fun meet and good race is often enough. It is inspiring to see the talent and experience of so many going so fast at what used to be the traditionally downward slide ages. Just keep moving towards the light! Jim, me carry extra weight? C'mon, I've got enough blubber for several winters already. The turn thing is hard when you can see under the bulkhead. More ab work? I need SDK's like crazy, how can Ande go so fast? First thing I think about is pushing off and grabbing a breath. My friends Jay and Stan kill me on the turns, I feel like I use them for a quick nap in comparison. DV

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

pwolf66 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:33:39 GMT

One thing that you might want to focus on is the angle that you push off on your turns. It looks like you might be slightly angled upwards instead of straight out or slightly downward.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

pwolf66 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:19:07 GMT

If I can't improve my turns, I think we should make Dave wear some kind of back "wing-like apparatus" to slow him down a little, like making the thin jockeys carry some extra weight. Sure as long as you agree to wear oh say, 40 pounds in sandbags during our next race?

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

jim thornton — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:10:27 GMT

Paul, thanks for the tip. I will try it as soon as my sinuses allow me to submerge by more than a centimeter without an exaggeration of the excruciating pressure effects I am currently suffering, and have documented in a revoltingly intimate new vlog just posted, i.e., Soul MRSA, or something worse? It just seems to me that Dave consistently gained so much on me in the turns that it wasn't really fair. If I can't improve my turns, I think we should make Dave wear some kind of back "wing-like apparatus" to slow him down a little, like making the thin jockeys carry some extra weight.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

jim thornton — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:06:40 GMT

I can't speak for Dave, but I was sandbagging by a second or so. I had done a 1:59.98 earlier in the season, but didn't want to jinx my efforts by thinking I could repeat this feat. I was really surprised I did in the 1:57's. Throughout the race, I was telling myself, "You feel awful. This is bad. Don't worry about embarrassing yourself. Age comes to us all eventually. Maybe there's a blood clot somewhere. It will be okay--Leslie knows some local hospitals. It will be over soon, three more minutes max." Evidently, the power of negative thinking paid off. Anyhow, I admit to venial sandbagging, but not the mortal variety. My unexpectedly faster than anticipated time was an accident.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

BillS — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:39:09 GMT

Just out of curiosity, what are 2 guys who are obviously very comfortably under a double 0 doing seeded at an :01 and a :02.4? Not trying to start a fight, or heap opprobrium (gotta work a Thornton word in here somewhere), just curious.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

Former Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:59:31 GMT

Dave Varner would appreciate any and all input, especially on swimming. Caveats (don't we all have a few....): 1. My left shoulder has never been the same after jamming a sprint finish in 2006. No xray damage seen, 1 cortisone shot, but it's funky anyway. I try to roll and keep my alignment straight even if my arms don't match. 2. I've never been a dual side breather; perhaps growing up in wavy age-group training convinced me that breathing twoards the lane line was more reliable, I dunno. I could always learn a new trick, though. 3. Mr. Vlog had an incredible finish on that race. My piano was larger than his at that moment. Do not let that guy sneak up on you! 4. Would be interested in knowing how everyone's stroke count varies through a race - I believe I was around 14 at the beginning and then madly clawing at 17 at the end. As Mr. Wolff puts it, "dinosaur arms" flailing away. DV

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

Former Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:44:10 GMT

Jim, My pacing was not hot, that's for sure. I felt good going out, but by the time my dull brain realizes that sometimes, the damage is done. I bet that if I had gone out 1 second slower, I would have had at least a 0.5 second faster time. 6 seconds differential is lame. If we'd been neck and neck - well, different things sometimes come into play and anything can happen. On the 50 yd free at the same meet, I was gaining on the pack like you were gaining on me - if it had been a 60 yd swim, champagne all around. Personally, I don't train at that pukey threshold nearly enough for nearly long enough. The pool I swim in during the winter has really bad air, I sometimes get trapped mid-swim and have to stop for a second. Other pools, and summer outdoors, no problemo. So....regrets on bad splitting? Nah. Determination to try again? You betcha. Will see with a 500 on Saturday. DV

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

smontanaro — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:14:22 GMT

If we did create a dedicated forum for this, we could also make it such that only registered U.S. Masters Swimming members could start threads. Everyone could read and participate, but only current members could request analysis. Hmmm... I didn't realize there was any connection between my forum username and my USMS registration. Hopefully you wouldn't have to make that connection one-by-one? Skip

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

Rykno — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:10:25 GMT

I have no comment on your stroke... this was hard to see because like you said you get cut off a bit, but to me it looked like in the last 125 or so that you would slowly catch up between the flags, but then lose 3ft in the turn. not sure if it was the speed of your turn, if you are getting stuck on the wall, or if the other swimmers had better underwater work than you. but you are only 1-2 strokes behind as Dave is turning, but then you are back at his feet after the turn. again the angle of the video and the fact that the camera is following Dave made it hard to see, so maybe I am wrong.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

The Fortress — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:58:15 GMT

Having just read Jim M's forum updates, it appears this could done via a Group Blog or Group Vlog. You just need a new user name to set it up.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

rtodd — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:40:26 GMT

Jim, I don't see much wrong there!! Your streamline looked a bit longer than Dave's. I think your pacing was very good with a good split and you were able to bring in some legs in the last 50. Well done.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

smontanaro — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:20:38 GMT

The main advantage I can see having a dedicated forum just for stroke analysis of USMS members is that you could find the stuff easily rather than having it scattered throughout all the various threads. That's my feeling as well. In fact, I'd like to see it a requirement (or at least very strongly encouraged) that the initial post in any thread in such a forum have a video link. Skip

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

tjrpatt — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:26:40 GMT

from what I saw in your turns, which wasn't much, they looked fine. Again, I probably need a closer look.

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

ViveBene — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:43:05 GMT

RE: Video Stroke Analysis Forum? Sample

jim thornton — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:33:15 GMT

The "Swimming-Related Discussions" forum is already a place to post videos: of technique, of meets, of others' skills. Videos are a HUGE part of this forum. Why do you think it's broke and needs fixing? And what would be left? :) Vive, I am not sure the current situation is broke or not, that's why I posted the poll. The main advantage I can see having a dedicated forum just for stroke analysis of USMS members is that you could find the stuff easily rather than having it scattered throughout all the various threads. I also think we can learn not just from having our own strokes critiqued but also from seeing how other people could improve. Anyhow, consolidating it all into one area would be mainly for convenience. Moreover, Jim M.'s suggestion that only USMS registered swimmers could post videos for critiquing also raises a possible secondary benefit, too--i.e., getting more people to actually register for USMS and contribute to the organization through membership fees. At the one convention I attended, one of the subthemes was how to offer more value to the members. Perhaps this could be, in at least a minor way, a new added value? --------------------------- Dave, in terms of your stroke in the video compared to mine, I still, for the life of me, can't see how I almost caught up. It does appear I have a bit more energy left, but that might be because I even split the 200. Your splits were: 1 Varner, David 48 FXCM-PV 2:01.00 1:56.94 26.42 29.03 30.49 31.00 My splits were: 1 Thornton, James 56 TPIT-AM 2:02.40 1:57.44 27.75 29.72 30.12 29.85 You went out the first 100 in 55.45 and came back in a 1:01.49 for about a 6 second differential between 100s. I went out in 57.47 and came back in a 59.97 for a 2.5 second differential. You had me by 2 seconds on the first half of the race, and I made up a second and a half on the second half of the race. It would be interesting to see if you took it out a wee bit slower, and I took it out a wee bit faster, if we both could have improved our times. Pacing is really the key to the 200, in my opinion. You also seemed to kill me on the turns. I need to figure out how to do better turns. If I could just shave a tenth of a second of each turn, I would have gotten you by .2!