New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

orca1946 — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:50:50 GMT

Sometimes change is good, but sometimes movement is not always forward!

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Rob Copeland — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:38:14 GMT

I guess it is too late to go back, but maybe Rob as he becomes more familiar with how willing people are to volunteer and individual talents will do things different next time. I assure you Rob has come up to speed extremely on the volunteer nature of Masters Swimming. We realize volunteers are the lifeblood of Masters Swimming. Our decision (Branding Task Force, Board and elected officers) to engage outside assistance in our branding efforts was decided before we hired Rob Butcher. Rob was instrumental in indentifying the firm to help us.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Redbird Alum — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:54:09 GMT

Actually, my thought was to just call for concepts. I wouldn't have the entire membership vote on the design, but rather use the people already designated for such selections.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

swimshark — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:56:43 GMT

Alison, Isn't there is a pretty big difference between a project like a rule book cover and logo/branding? I am not a graphic designer, but I have seen some companies spend some pretty big dollars on logo/branding and I have seen them take the approach taken by USMS and usually the more people involved and inclusive the process the more expensive it is and the results are often similar in the end. Now, if there was no contest and they just had a professional like yourself who was volunteering their time from the start or even couple volunteers, then maybe that would have been the best alternative. I guess it is too late to go back, but maybe Rob as he becomes more familiar with how willing people are to volunteer and individual talents will do things different next time. Thanks for volunteering your time to masters swimming! Tim Tim, yes there is a difference between something smaller such as a cover design and branding of an organization. You are right. But asking some of us who are professionals volunteer our time to do this, to me, would have been a better use of the organizations money. I would have gladly worked with the team to come up with a new logo but I nor anyone I know was asked. And I would have gladly done it for free and turned over all copyrighting to USMS. I hope this will be considered in the future.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:23:20 GMT

Although I have to agree, the font is a bit boring. I would have done something a bit more to it. Thou shalt not disparage the emblem! :bow:

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

aquageek — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:24:39 GMT

For all you do-gooders who want the logo designed by a bunch of unpaid volunteers, take a look at the Georgia State flag. I've never seen such nit picking in my life, geez louise. A lot of good things are happening in USMS. Like it or not a logo update is one thing that shows our leadership is thinking and taking us forward. Get with the program and stop the whining, it's Smith-esque for goodness sakes.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Ahelee Sue Osborn — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:49:23 GMT

I'm curious as to why someone was hired when there are plenty of designers here that would have done a design for free. I'm not complaining about the logo but USMS could have saved some money. I believe the USMS membership is chock full of talented individuals who would love to offer help or assistance to their sport of swimming. But they have no idea there is a need. They have no idea how to begin to make an offer of help. I think the LMSC needs to communicate these "opportunities to help" on a local level. The SPMA sends a monthly newsletter by email. And now, we have our brand new, very spiffy USMS Newsletter going out each month. Sounds like a great beginning.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Michael Heather — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:34:11 GMT

I'm curious as to why someone was hired when there are plenty of designers here that would have done a design for free. I'm not complaining about the logo but USMS could have saved some money. The new logo is actually very similar to what I pictured when I heard a new logo was being designed. Although I have to agree, the font is a bit boring. I would have done something a bit more to it. And we would have loved to save the money, although we believe it was well spent. The answer is very simple. We do not know what is available to us from the membership and we don't make a habit of begging for help. We do know that there are many professionals and artists and all sorts of people out there, but they do not join USMS to do more work. If they want to volunteer their services, we welcome the help. Right now, there is no way for us to gather that information except in arrears, like on this thread. Perhaps we should have made a contest out of the process?

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:33:50 GMT

I think the sheer number of unsolicited opinions and offers of "free help" pretty much should settle the debate about the value of using a professional logo/pr organziation versus the general populus of the orgnanization. A logo contest sounds like something a Summer league team does in conjunction with a bake sale to raise money for new flags. great idea...i'll make the 5 dollar brownies.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Michael Heather — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:32:56 GMT

Mike - The contest, or just a call for volunteers, is a great idea. Give them a time limit to respond and then if no one jumps in, take it out of house. As an aside, I'm not sure who "we" refers to, but there was a time when USMS was pretty much volunteers, period, as were/are many of the LMSC's and local team organizations. "We" refers to the Board of Directors of USMS, of which I am a member. We act in the best interests of USMS membership at all times, always knowing that nothing we do will be universally accepted or appreciated. Like any other company, we make the best decisions we can with the information available.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

swimshark — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:51:42 GMT

The designer (also a businessman) was hired to make a logo that USMS can use and license in all sorts of ways. He was not tasked to follow his artistic notions beyond that. If he had presented a swimmer with flames coming out his nose or skydiving, or a baby's arm holding an apple, it would have been a waste of his time because USMS could not use those images as icons.. I'm curious as to why someone was hired when there are plenty of designers here that would have done a design for free. I'm not complaining about the logo but USMS could have saved some money. The new logo is actually very similar to what I pictured when I heard a new logo was being designed. Although I have to agree, the font is a bit boring. I would have done something a bit more to it.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:48:21 GMT

For all you do-gooders who want the logo designed by a bunch of unpaid volunteers, take a look at the Georgia State flag. . No kidding. The new logo is good. And I agree with you about the georgia flag...it got changed because of whinning. Well, maybe if enough people whine, usms will opt to change this new logo to appease a small mass of people.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

james lucas — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:54:33 GMT

A logo contest sounds like something a Summer league team does in conjunction with a bake sale to raise money for new flags. Actually, there's a real-life example of what happens when you let a large body of people vote on branding or graphics. If you're driving through Sacramento on your way to nationals in the Spring, you'll be able to easily see this monument to a bad process. It seems that, several years ago, the City of Sacramento had the bright idea of asking its voters what color to paint the Tower Bridge across the Sacramento River. For decades, this old bridge has been painted silver. The People, however, voted to paint it "gold." Unfortunately, "gold" turned out to be the same shade of yellow that you'd expect to see if you were to swim a 200 free and then give in to your natural urges to puke. Most people in Sacramento know the color is, at best, wierd. In my opinion, most voters didn't really understand how it would look. And why should they? It's not like they are professionals ... Meanwhile, the People are stuck with that color: the paint will last decades.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Tim L — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:44:10 GMT

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

smontanaro — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:33:52 GMT

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

aquageek — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:18:07 GMT

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Muppet — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:29:28 GMT

The branding task force is made up of delegates and committee members sent to convention by our LMSCs. Those people are chosen out of their LMSCs to represent their LMSCs at convention - so one can argue that, albiet in a very round-about way, membership helped select a new logo. A membership vote would have been nice, but decisions on branding are almost always left up to some sort of committee that is representative of the organization of which they are members.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

swimshark — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:06:49 GMT

Matt, I understand USMS had these costs anyway to review this design. My concern is that with a contest you want to give some panel of people or the whole masters swimming community a chance to vote on designs, right? Would it not be prudent to have each design legally reviewed before the vote? Otherwise, you might have a winner that didn't pass the legal test and you would have to start all over and incur duplicate costs. Unfortunately, I have seen this done. So, best case a contest costs you the about the same and worst case it cost you much more. There is much more risk involved with a contest. Not to mention that if you have a contest you might have someone come up with a concept that works for one media really well, but not another media so then you have to have a professional tweak the design to make it work. Added costs and added time. To run a contest you probably would want to spend some professional time on design specificiations as well so that is added costs. You might want a professional to review the designs before the selection to discard ones that don't meet the specifications too. More costs again. I think the new leadership probably had an idea of what they wanted going into the process and had probably limited their design concepts to minimize costs (both legal and design costs). That is just my guess. What happens if the swimmers like the design, but Rob and other leadership doesn't think it will help with developing masters swimming? Start over and waste money or undermine Rob's and other leadership's vision? Rob was hired to do a job. It appears he is trying so maybe we should let it go. I have nothing to do with USMS other than being a member and volunteer local coach, but it must be a struggle transforming the organization from being a wholly volunteer organization to a partially volunteer organization. I don't disagree that there is probably a better design out there, but the time and money to get there is probably not worth it. Overall, good job USMS. Tim It's not that complicated. Every year USMS has a cover design contest for their Rule Book. It's simple, voted on at convention and there aren't all the issues you mention. Trust me, an open request for logo designs could have been done to the membership via the magazine, emails and here and with very little cost to the organization. I for one, did the Go The Distance logo. I happily have given my time to USMS and Mary Sweat for the project. And I will continue to do so in the future to USMS, my LMSC and other organizations that ask. I do graphic design for a living.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Tim L — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 02:23:21 GMT

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Redbird Alum — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:44:36 GMT

... Doing a contest and then having to legally vet multiple designs from volunteers and doing the trademark research can cost more than the design itself too so it wouldn't necessarily save money to make it into a contest. ... Tim - "We" had to "vet" and "trademark research" the one "we" produced anyway. My comment is more about engaging members than saving money.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Tim L — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:28:58 GMT

I was thinking that a silhouette of a guy or gal trying to squeeze into a tech suit might have been better. Just kidding, of course. Having been involved in a few company logo selections (not as a designer) you will never get everyone to agree on a logo and then you have all sorts of legal/trademark obstacles you have to overcome with the logo that is selected. Even if this logo is similar to others as long as you have "U.S. Masters Swimming" attached to it they shouldn't have too much or any issue with trademark matters. Maybe the font could be improved, but I am sure that is an easy change. In general, I like it and it should look good on a T-shirt. Someone can look at this is recognize us as old geezer swimmers without thinking about it. Perfect. It is good that the leadership is trying to move forward. Trying to do things by committee or volunteers takes a lot longer than just doing it and paying for it and getting it behind you. I am sure they probably didn't spend too much on the design. Doing a contest and then having to legally vet multiple designs from volunteers and doing the trademark research can cost more than the design itself too so it wouldn't necessarily save money to make it into a contest. Damn, I didn't just agree with Geek again did I? I hate it when that happens. Preach

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Redbird Alum — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:26:56 GMT

And we would have loved to save the money, although we believe it was well spent. The answer is very simple. We do not know what is available to us from the membership and we don't make a habit of begging for help. We do know that there are many professionals and artists and all sorts of people out there, but they do not join USMS to do more work. If they want to volunteer their services, we welcome the help. Right now, there is no way for us to gather that information except in arrears, like on this thread. Perhaps we should have made a contest out of the process? Mike - The contest, or just a call for volunteers, is a great idea. Give them a time limit to respond and then if no one jumps in, take it out of house. As an aside, I'm not sure who "we" refers to, but there was a time when USMS was pretty much volunteers, period, as were/are many of the LMSC's and local team organizations.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:04 GMT

You people need to get a grip and a life. Word.

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:10:53 GMT

Why do you need to play with the logo? Don't you have any toys of your own?

RE: New U.S. Masters Swimming Logo

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:09:42 GMT

USMS = US Marshals Service, for about the last 220 years. Masters Swimming? Never heard of it. At least that is how most people react. As a former US Marshal, I've got it covered both ways, but count me in as a big fan of US Masters Swimming. :anim_coffee: Just curious. I don't remember the old logo. Can anyone show me a pic?:)