Increasing Distance Per Stroke

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:31:13 GMT

3strokes...you are right, too much up and down much is a problem. Mine is very...very minimal. I have had it taped before and that is the only time I can actually see it. Mine is just minimal enough that I can't feel it too often. I must disagree on the breathing. I prefer on my right side, my strong side. I don't necessarily believe that bilateral breathing is good for the whole stroke for me. When I said Also when galloping, you breathe towards your weaker arm's side. it's because galloping is a form of limping (watch Thorpe or Phelps). I've noticed that their Lope was very uneven in that one arm was used for both forward propulsion and the loping lift while the other was more for forward motion. That being so, you get a better gallop (IMVHO) when you (make that "I") breathe to my weaker side, my left.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:12:51 GMT

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:04:01 GMT

When you gallop be careful that you do not expend energy in just "going up and down" but the up-thrust should convert into almost propelling yourself UP-and-forward out of the water (won't happen) as if to dive -shallowly- back in. Also when galloping, you breathe towards your weaker arm's side. :2cents:

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:34:16 GMT

For some reason, when I try to "gallop" any over-rotation seems to disappear, plus it "seems" easier to not only breath but swim longer distances vs. when I try to swim very smooth and symmetrical... Don't know...could be just me....

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:24:26 GMT

Hmm... You may be onto something about this rotation thing paul.. Dunno if i am just getting more fit, but i've been trying your swim a bit flatter thing and i feel like it is making a noticeable difference in speed w/o really changing my DPS... actually lastnight i had the best DPS i've had in a while

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:12:37 GMT

I also think a common mistake being made is that in an attempt to lengthen stroke a lot of people over rotate their hips. Hips need to remain as close to vertical as possible with the rotation coming from the core/front quadrant of the body. Paul...then how do you correct this overrotating the hips? It seems like one would want the hips and shoulders to roll together?

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Paul Smith — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:49:03 GMT

Paul...then how do you correct this overrotating the hips? It seems like one would want the hips and shoulders to roll together? There is and should be a degree of rotation at the hips...the problem I see is when people try to extend their reach to lower stroke count there is often an over-rotation. I read some stuff that Mike Bottom & GHJ were writing about this and have played with it a lot lately...I can literally feel acceleration when I focus on trying to keep the hips more level. Granted this is more applicable to sprints where at speed you swim flatter but in general I think people miss this potential problem.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:44:29 GMT

I find that trying to increase distance per stroke while using 2-beat kicks tends to cause over rotation very much, and cause the body to deviate, too.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:44:54 GMT

a lot of people over rotate their hips. Hips need to remain as close to vertical as possible with the rotation coming from the core/front quadrant of the body. Yes - besides the early catch this is something people often can't quite get. Everybody always says - rotate, rotate - but you should always be able to kick up and down during all parts of your stroke. If you are rotating your hips so that you have to kick sideways - you are in deep trouble. While I love catch up Free as a drill -- swimming free with 6 kicks on your side is maybe one of the worst drills out there. Sure it's nice for the extension part - but we do not swim Free on the side. Do the drill while still kicking up / down and rotate the upper body.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

MAC swimmer — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:26:45 GMT

Paul, That was an awesome video. I am practicing that catch drill today!

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Paul Smith — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:32:43 GMT

Do you really mean horizontal or level with the surface of the water? I think people who over-rotate too much have a tendency to snake through the water and also need to use a cross-over kick to compensate. Basically then their kick is only serving to balance out their hip rotation and not really providing any propulsion. Kirk...level with the water...I'm not doing a very good job describing this. But you nailed it on the cross-over kick both in free and back which tends to occur when their is over rotation as a balancing act. Play with a little...over exagerate the rotation then try and hold level and you will eventually find a place of balance and power.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

knelson — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:23:14 GMT

Hips need to remain as close to vertical as possible Do you really mean horizontal or level with the surface of the water? I think people who over-rotate too much have a tendency to snake through the water and also need to use a cross-over kick to compensate. Basically then their kick is only serving to balance out their hip rotation and not really providing any propulsion.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Paul Smith — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:50:11 GMT

Probably one of the most difficult skills for a beginner to master...especially without access to a coach that can keep an eye out for things being done incorrectly. I will say that to this day the single best drill I've found if catch up freestyle...I do it almost every single warm up right after diving in. I use the lines on the bottom of the pool(s) as a gauge rather counting strokes for this. I also think catch up free with paddles and swim sets with paddles can help not only correct angle problems but also help develop strength. I also think a common mistake being made is that in an attempt to lengthen stroke a lot of people over rotate their hips. Hips need to remain as close to vertical as possible with the rotation coming from the core/front quadrant of the body. Check this out: www.goswim.tv/.../freestyle---practice-the-catch.html

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

isobel — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:16:03 GMT

Oops! It was Andy who gave me a short summary of some great freestyle drills. Can't find this list on his blog. But he's the one who suggested the gallop drill and the hip/shoulder/temple touch drill, both very good. (Hmm. I think they are one and the same...)

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

isobel — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:12:37 GMT

I think it was Typhoons Coach who directed me to a link with great freestyle drills, including the gallop drill. His gallop drill is pull three times with right arm while kicking normally, then pull three times with left arm while kicking normally, if I remember correctly. Sort of like one-arm freestyle only you one-arm it for three pulls then switch arms. If Senor Typhoons Coach sees this, perhaps he can post the link where he lists some great drills, including one where you touch your hip, shoulder, and temple. I basically missed every body part just named. But when I watched a teammate do this drill, her freestyle looked very very smooth. And if I am mixing up Mr. Typhoons with Mr. Ande, please forgive. I also find that using hand-size square paddles without any straps helps me feel where I can get better force underneath my shoulders, en route to my hips. Also helps with getting my elbows up. I just hold the paddles with my pinky/thumb rather than have then strapped to me because my arms fall off my shoulders easily (very loose ligaments!). I make sure the paddles are low enough so that my wrist cannot bend. This way I just do a 50 or so to get a sense of how amazing it would be to swim correctly, then try it on my own. I have heard playing water polo gives you great endurance. Perhaps you could use an image of a horse underneath you that is galloping you through the water and you pull hard in the water to stay on the horse....

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:53:15 GMT

What's the Gallop drill? Sounds like one of those water polo exercises:)

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

ande — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:54:28 GMT

I've helped many swimmers improve their DPS Here's how I do it. www.usms.org/.../showpost.php

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:09:10 GMT

I agree with Paul on this one! Keep in mind, though, that there are no "magic bullets" when it comes to increasing your stroke rate or stroke length. The drills that Paul mentioned are great, and I would also try the Gallop drill to get a little more emphasis on the one arm, catch and efficient pull.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:25:35 GMT

I do slow "max glide" swims by 25's and try to reduce the count. I try to keep it as an integrated swim rather than at drill speed and broken down.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:16:54 GMT

I got an instant decrease of stroke per length by 1~2 by switching to bilateral breathing. Still working on it. :D

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:05:18 GMT

I don't know of any instant fixes for stroke length, but what has been working for me over a longish period of time (a few years) is just consistency. Doing drills has been a big part of my routine... helping me improve rotation & timing on my stroke (kick on side + its variations, i also like pull with no bouey) and more recently i've been trying to bet a bit more effective on the front end of my stroke (high elbow drills, head up swimming). I also frequently do really a set of relatively slow 25's really working on form.. and slowly building speed while keeping stroke count. In practice I count strokes frequently through a set... not every length, but if i feel really fresh or fast i count to see what thats like.. or if i'm absolutely dying I also like to count that to see what that range is as well. I've prob took my strokes per 25 down by 3-4 strokes normal (practice speed).. or 5-6 if i am doing a DPS set. In timed 100's i think its prob only like 7 strokes or so for the whole 100... still hoping to be more efficient at race pace.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

Former Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:47:22 GMT

I have been wondering this too. I have not been able to get my stroke count down no matter what I do.

RE: Increasing Distance Per Stroke

pwolf66 — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:50:39 GMT

Some drills that might help: - Swim free with closed fists and focus on catching the water with your forearms. - Slow 25s free where you exagerate your arm extension to emphasize body rotation - Swim with only your weak arm to build a stronger pull - Distance per stroke drills where you glide for at least a 2 count after each pull. Try to maintain good body postion with head, shoulders, hips and feet all on the same plane.