PB vs winning

RE: PB vs winning

Allen Stark — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:33:21 GMT

Jeff you can always weare a scuba weight belt to the tune of 50lbs and race me in the 200 BR..! I think I can speak for just about everyone when I say that I'd pay to watch that.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:11:20 GMT

No offense to those in my age group, but I would love to line up next to Chris Stevenson and Mike Ross in the 100 back at nationals. Maybe I was just born six years too late. Anyway. I mentioned this in another thread, but if the Long Beach had been seeded by age group, the 100 and 200 IMs would have been quite boring for me. Without Erik running me down on the freestyle, I would not have swum my fastest Masters 200 IM and second-fastest 100 IM. I am thrilled with this discussion. For a long time, I thought I was the only one who wanted nationals seeded by time. Jeff you can always weare a scuba weight belt to the tune of 50lbs and race me in the 200 BR... I think it's good to race by times...some of us aren't in the same catergory beyond our ages...a close heat is better than being DFL by 30 seconds with my age group!

RE: PB vs winning

Jeff Commings — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:08:03 GMT

RE: PB vs winning

rtodd — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:29:30 GMT

As a relatively new swimmer, PB's are satisfying but don't mean a whole lot. What I really want is to get my times down to where they would be considered fast in my age group and in the ball park of the truly fast. I consider that winning here. As long as you have the training time, I think it is healthy to compare against the best in any catagory and say if he can do it, so can I. I am still in the process of getting my times down and someday I know it will change to just being satisfied with a PB.

RE: PB vs winning

Jeff Commings — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:08:12 GMT

Jeff you can always weare a scuba weight belt to the tune of 50lbs and race me in the 200 BR... A very enticing way to get me back into the 200 ***.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:57:44 GMT

It's all about the personal best, however this question has a hidden answer. Every swimmer wants to win, or at least they should. Often times we don't swim our personal best unless we have a race. So they're both very important, but in swimming you bring home times, not stories. Mine is 100 fly in under a minute, but I wouldn't have swam that if I didn't have a race

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:54:25 GMT

I remember watching the 84 games and the US backstroker Rick Carey was upset when winning the Gold Medal in a time that was well off his best. . Mind you, it's understandable in this case. Had he done a PB he would STILL have won Gold and would have killed two birds with one (how much does a stone weigh anyway?)

RE: PB vs winning

That Guy — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:12:17 GMT

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:13:40 GMT

As a coach, I enjoy the race! As a swimmer, I'll take a personal best over a win.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:48:49 GMT

I'll take a PB everytime. A) I'm not going to legitimately win anything, ever. B) It's hard enough just getting 3rd out of 4 or what not. If I have to use beating other folks as a barometer of my awesomeness, then I really do suck as a person. What he said.

RE: PB vs winning

Redbird Alum — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:58:39 GMT

Good post! PB every time... oh, and open seeding, cause you meet more people that way and you don't suffer the indignity of gasping at the wall while your "competition is already granting press quotes in their warm-ups! :blush:

RE: PB vs winning

swimshark — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:05:27 GMT

I would take a PB over place any time. When I tell my parents my meet results I always start with my times. They always ask me for my places. I have to usually think about that part since to me, I'm racing myself more than the field - except Nationals. Then it's a little more even of PB and placing.

RE: PB vs winning

Animal — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:26:03 GMT

I like the racing part the best. A tight race against anyone is a far better memory than a PB. If that person is someone you have to race against over and over the the memories of those races grow and can be replayed with that person over and over, which is a great deal of fun. There is one guy I swim against over and over. I know how he swims and he knows how I swim. I go out fast, die and try to hold on and he starts slower and builds. By the last 75 we tend to be very close to one another. I am just hoping the pool will get shorter and he is swimming like a mad man to catch me. This has happened over and over and only twice out of the 15 or so times we have raced has either of us made PBs.

RE: PB vs winning

Rykno — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:20:19 GMT

I would much rather get a Masters-PB than win, but I wouldn't mind getting a win with a bad time. I guess it really depends on the meet and how everyone else is swimming. if I have a tough line up. let's say the 100fly 2 events after the 50br I would rather have a high placing than a PB since I know i will not be 100% for the 100fly.

RE: PB vs winning

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:59:22 GMT

I, too, love open seeding. But, Chris and Paul, if you want it so bad at nationals, stop with the sprinting and get into the distance events. (I know you did the 500 at Austin, Paul, so I'll cut you slack there). Hey, the 500 is one of my regular events! I swam the 400 at Oregon, unlike the tall one. (Honestly, I don't recall if it was seeded by time-only, I don't think it was...the fastest people were in our age group anyway.) And I think you misread Paul's reply to this idea. I believe that meet directors at LC nationals have the option of seeding the 200s by time-only if the timeline looks particularly bad.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:51:49 GMT

I remember watching the 84 games and the US backstroker Rick Carey was upset when winning the Gold Medal in a time that was well off his best. While I can't quite agree with that - I do understand it. I would take the PR - except for in any Big meet. At US trials - I think people will take finishing second over the PR ...

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:38:12 GMT

A best time over a win would be my choice. Unless there's some sort of rivalry going on most masters might say the PR is more significant.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:09:12 GMT

RE: PB vs winning

Patrick W. Brundage — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:12:44 GMT

Part of the reason I usually prefer the zone meets over nationals because the seeding is open vs. by age...almost always a good race to be had! Chris, I can see both sides and am actually OK with having seeding by time as an option at regional meet and age at nationals....the epic battles between folks in the same age group I think are great for the sport. I, too, love open seeding. But, Chris and Paul, if you want it so bad at nationals, stop with the sprinting and get into the distance events. (I know you did the 500 at Austin, Paul, so I'll cut you slack there). A best time over a win would be my choice. Naturally, I want both, but agree with this. Part of the reason I do like open water swimming, though, is because it seems almost purely about the race ... times are an after-thought in many cases.

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:07 GMT

I would take a head to head close race victory the results in number one TT time, over a PB that is only nominally faster. I like the racin, not the times and only work to get faster so I can hang with the good competition when I race. PJE

RE: PB vs winning

mattson — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:14:17 GMT

If I get a lifetime best in SCY freestyle, I *might* sneak into the Top Ten. So you forgot the option of a PB being necessary to place well. :)

RE: PB vs winning

Paul Smith — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:18:00 GMT

And again I say...I would love it if nationals were seeded the same way. I'd probably swim faster too. As it is unlikely that I'll go to AZ for zones, and we will never be in the same age group, this would be the only way I would ever swim against you head-to-head unless you happen to find yourself in this area during one of our zones meets (as Patrick did last weekend). I think unsanctioned beer relays after nationals are an intriguing possibility... Chris, I can see both sides and am actually OK with having seeding by time as an option at regional meet and age at nationals....the epic battles between folks in the same age group I think are great for the sport. And count on me making it out your way for a meet in the next year or two...we have friends we need to see out that way....and we know Geeks address so we'll be able to bother a whole lot of folks over a week!

RE: PB vs winning

Former Member — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:34:05 GMT

I wiswh it was relevant to my swimming...

RE: PB vs winning

Allen Stark — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:11:49 GMT

:blah: I think I resemble that remark. "You talkin to me?" From within, it comes from within.:cool: If the shoe fits. That 200 BR we had at Worlds was one of my favorite swims.I usually swim people down the second half so when I was 1/2 body length behind at the 100 I was sure I had you.Great swim,great fun.

RE: PB vs winning

Jim Clemmons — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:54:04 GMT

i have mixed feelings about seeding by time instead of age at Nats.Some times that would give me better competition,but if you have friends/competitors given to sandbagging(I am not naming names,but you know who you are) you have a better chance of swimming next to them at Nats.I also like racing someone I have a history with,not just some guy with a similar entry time. :blah: I think I resemble that remark. "You talkin to me?" From within, it comes from within.:cool: