what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

ViveBene — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:49:37 GMT

Agreements might not be executed, or plans might not be carried out fully. Stage 1 might not be followed by stage 2. That sort of thing. I reckon. Things he has accomplished could be un-accomplished. And if he is not chair, he could not write as a chair. But the article is three-fourths written in the responses here, so I'm going to step back and let things percolate. :) Regards, VB Writing an article on how you accomplished what you did would not be worth it if you don't get re-elected? Am I missing something?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

pwolf66 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:49:18 GMT

HA! No, too many irons in the fire now. Plus, if I am not re-elected as Chairman this will be academic anyway. Writing an article on how you accomplished what you did would not be worth it if you don't get re-elected? Am I missing something?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Doug Adamavich — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:27:15 GMT

Doug A., My apologies for a very belated response to your detailed response. What you have done is amazing! Can you clone yourself? HA! More to the point (or more easily achievable), would you be interested in writing an article for Swimmer restating these points? (I am not connected to magazine but think this is very valuable material.) No, too many irons in the fire now. Plus, if I am not re-elected as Chairman this will be academic anyway. How much support (info, background, partnering, advice, $$, whatever) do you get from the mothership org? Showing how that relationship works would, I think, be important in the article. $0 in financial support and some encouragement is what I have received from USMS. Our LMSC is going to work with the USMS Membership Development program but that is in the future. This will help but is not a silver bullet. Lots of work to be done but there is great potential within our state. So far, it's all been a local (mostly individual) effort.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

ViveBene — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:15:39 GMT

Doug A., My apologies for a very belated response to your detailed response. What you have done is amazing! Can you clone yourself? More to the point (or more easily achievable), would you be interested in writing an article for Swimmer restating these points? (I am not connected to magazine but think this is very valuable material.) How much support (info, background, partnering, advice, $$, whatever) do you get from the mothership org? Showing how that relationship works would, I think, be important in the article. Regards, VB Here is what I have done in AZ to increase membership value: Discounts on products for swimmer-related items (ex. Free shipping on Fabiola Molina swimwear) Discounts for general-use products (ex. Dr. Hoy's Pain Relief Gel) Discounts on fitness and wellness services (ex. Windhawk Clinic) Baseball game socials (w/Arizona Diamondbacks) Swimming clinics (ex. Jason Lezak on 11/22-11/23) There is more but these are some of the ones off the top of my head. We also have: A tech trash recycling program Used suit collection for the lady who makes quilts for the homeless Fundraising program with Sweet Tomatoes and Entertainment Books Hotline number for information on meets Yahoo group Blog All of which were initiated by me without any external prompting. If I am re-elected there will be many more of these... By offering greater value than non-membership. Look at it as if you were working for a company. When you compare one firm to another, which one offers the better/best combination of commute, salary, company culture, advancement potential, benefits, coworkers, etc. for your time? A good company that wants to keep its employees will offer all sorts of benefits to them. That is smart business because the cost of hiring and training good workers is expensive. Is it any surprise that people want to work for a companies like Google, eBay, Intel, 3M, Johnson & Johnson, and others? Look at it that way and the whole thing changes. Consider USMS a company with 45,000 employees that have other interests competing for their membership. Dunno. My concern is the desired result, which is increased membership and increased value for those members. Yes, repeatedly. I mention it in every meeting I go to. This may annoy some but it is essential to focus on it. After all, the ED considers it important for our growth. In AZ, USAT had 2012 members last year, AZ LMSC had 819. USAT probably has a lot more one-day registrations than we do. By the way, the 2.4 mile open water swim (USAT-sanctioned event) had 391 people in it. Our largest meet of the season drew about a third of that... I don't have answers but will keep doing my best to grow masters swimming within my LMSC.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:29:37 GMT

My goal is to grow and add value to our members. My opponent would rather the LMSC keep things the way they have been...:soapbox::soapbox::soapbox::soapbox: Geeez, can we leave this politicking to the professionals? :eeew::whiteflag::snore: Don’t you have this backwards??? Shouldn’t you add value to the members in order to grow?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:32:08 GMT

Good luck. It sounds like you want to continue to take the organization forward while your opponent wants to keep things the same (perhaps so he doesn't have so much work to do). Hmm, where have I seen something like this before?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Doug Adamavich — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:23:58 GMT

Agreements might not be executed, or plans might not be carried out fully. Stage 1 might not be followed by stage 2. That sort of thing. I reckon. Things he has accomplished could be un-accomplished. And if he is not chair, he could not write as a chair. Right now we are at a crossroads as an LMSC. My goal is to grow and add value to our members. This means discounts, specials, clinics, information, and other benefits that membership provides. However, not everybody shares these ideas, which is why I am being opposed in the upcoming election. My opponent would rather the LMSC keep things the way they have been over the past three decades and keep things low-key. There is no desire on the part of this person to take steps to add value, much less execute on them. So anything I do now will not necessarily carry-through if I were to not be re-elected. There is a lot in the queue but it will take time to bring everything together. We will see what happens come November...

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:51:13 GMT

Interesting point, I would argue that the vast majority of participants in USMS which have been identified as "fitness" swimmers who do not compete are only members because the facility they train at requires them to be...yet we keep hearing that USMS needs to balance the time/energy of its resources on that group...but how? The action plan touches on some of this, what swimmers who don't go to meets ("fitness swimmer" is an awful term because 99% of members swim for fitness whether they go to meets or not) want is good coaching including good instruction and programs that are delivered in the club context. So coach development and club development and programs. I think there is a huge opportunity for USMS to deliver information on evaluating and improving stroke technique through online video and more traditional media. It's fine to publish articles but this should really be a permanent resource. Jim Miller gave a great talk at convention on shoulder injury prevention including an explanation for why many of the classical swimming stretches are destructive and suggestions for good alternatives. I think it would be invaluable for USMS to take the info in that talk and make a short video that would get that information out to all its members. What could be a higher USMS priority? As I said in one thread or another my informal research indicates that there are a lot of swimmers who would participate in time trials at their club who don't have the time to go to swim meets. Mary Sweet is doing great stuff with the Go The Distance program, I would say that putting that online and then really promoting it should be another high priority.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:11:42 GMT

I don`t even remember starting this thread. Did a moderator take my reply from a different post and decide to make a thread, because it was such a brilliant reply!:groovy:

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Paul Smith — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:36:52 GMT

Paul and Doug, I agree with you both that USMS can be doing much more. I just think that it can be hard to see how much it has done already. I think it is probably fair to say that it is one of the best masters swimming organizations in the world, and perhaps the best. By the way, Paul: I think forum polls are nice and all, but I disagree with you that those who vote on them are a very good representation of USMS membership as a whole. That's just a guess, I'll admit, but if I'm right then the results of such polls are of limited value in terms of policy/proposal feedback. Chris, on the first point I can only say that being the best means nothing depending on where the "bar" is set. Is USMS doing a "bad" job? Not in my opinion. Is USMS maximizing all the potential it has to grow....to this point (IMHO) not even close. I'm optimistic however that its going in the right direction. On point two...did I say anything about basing decisions 100% off a poll conducted on USMS? No. Does setting up polling questions like the ones I did before the convention maybe give some people not digging thru the document to find what was being voted on a bit more info? Possibly, the polls/threads did get a fair amount of action and some clarifications made that at least helped me better understand the proposals. Does some information from this forum vs. nothing help the decision makers get at the convention? I don't know but to me its a shame more don't a least try and use it.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Doug Adamavich — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:10:59 GMT

Doug A., how would you increase the value proposition for USMS? Here is what I have done in AZ to increase membership value: Discounts on products for swimmer-related items (ex. Free shipping on Fabiola Molina swimwear) Discounts for general-use products (ex. Dr. Hoy's Pain Relief Gel) Discounts on fitness and wellness services (ex. Windhawk Clinic) Baseball game socials (w/Arizona Diamondbacks) Swimming clinics (ex. Jason Lezak on 11/22-11/23) There is more but these are some of the ones off the top of my head. We also have: A tech trash recycling program Used suit collection for the lady who makes quilts for the homeless Fundraising program with Sweet Tomatoes and Entertainment Books Hotline number for information on meets Yahoo group Blog All of which were initiated by me without any external prompting. If I am re-elected there will be many more of these... This is an interesting question. (If you see value, it's there; if you don't it isn't?) How do you influence people to want an affiliation? By offering greater value than non-membership. Look at it as if you were working for a company. When you compare one firm to another, which one offers the better/best combination of commute, salary, company culture, advancement potential, benefits, coworkers, etc. for your time? A good company that wants to keep its employees will offer all sorts of benefits to them. That is smart business because the cost of hiring and training good workers is expensive. Is it any surprise that people want to work for a companies like Google, eBay, Intel, 3M, Johnson & Johnson, and others? Look at it that way and the whole thing changes. Consider USMS a company with 45,000 employees that have other interests competing for their membership. How do you measure what's working? Dunno. My concern is the desired result, which is increased membership and increased value for those members. Did this question, how to increase the value proposition, come up at Convention? Yes, repeatedly. I mention it in every meeting I go to. This may annoy some but it is essential to focus on it. After all, the ED considers it important for our growth. (The other side of the question: is this an issue? Maybe the percentage of dues-paying USMS members is roughly the same as at similar orgs. By similar orgs I mean groups that voluntarily come together around an activity, in a way that allows them to choose, or not, an affiliation.) In AZ, USAT had 2012 members last year, AZ LMSC had 819. USAT probably has a lot more one-day registrations than we do. By the way, the 2.4 mile open water swim (USAT-sanctioned event) had 391 people in it. Our largest meet of the season drew about a third of that... I don't have answers but will keep doing my best to grow masters swimming within my LMSC.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:44:51 GMT

I think that USMS should give free or heavily discounted memberships to swimmers in the 18-24 age group. If they are even slightly successful in attracting these swimmers, it would easily pay for itself. Excuse me, but this sounds like something out of Catch-22. If we give away enough memberships, at what point do we start making money?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:41:47 GMT

You'd be bored and cranky. I want a car magnet. Then I'd be happy. I want a magnetic car.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:22:08 GMT

I am not convinced that membership discounts is the key factor. I think that USMS should give free or heavily discounted memberships to swimmers in the 18-24 age group. If they are even slightly successful in attracting these swimmers, it would easily pay for itself. Allow me to clarify, I was referring to things like discounted car rental rates for USMS members. Are you talking about reaping future paid memberships when you say that free memberships would pay for themselves?

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:15:59 GMT

What if these college kids are foreigners here on scholarship? Can we really give them a free membership and deprive some American kid of the same right? Imagine the damage that could be done to American kids? I do not support this. This is really random to me. Who says they're foreigners and not American college kids? In order to prevent foreigners from stealing away the American kids' memberships, you should just not advertise to anyone? EDIT: I just saw your posts in the other thread about foreigners, so I'm assuming this was sarcasm. Also, I want a car magnet too, or at least a window decal.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:44:19 GMT

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:08:54 GMT

Excuse me, but this sounds like something out of Catch-22. If we give away enough memberships, at what point do we start making money? I don't think we're talking a lot of people here, but if you hook them on USMS then they'll be paying members into their dotage. And beyond, judging from the typical forumite... :)

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:03:49 GMT

In AZ, USAT had 2012 members last year, AZ LMSC had 819. USAT probably has a lot more one-day registrations than we do. By the way, the 2.4 mile open water swim (USAT-sanctioned event) had 391 people in it. Our largest meet of the season drew about a third of that... I wonder how much of this issue is sport related versus how many "extras" are offered. Triathlon competition is quite different from a swim meet, in triathlon everyone competes more or less at the same time, in swim meets you spend more time waiting around/recovering than actually competing. What was the attendance at the LMSC's open water swim? Why did people go to the USAT open water instead of the LMSC's? Have you looked at participation levels in AZ masters track clubs and compared it to participation in road races? Swim meets are a lot more like a track meet than a triathlon. I agree that a lot more can be done to attract members, and I think it is being worked on, but I am not convinced that membership discounts is the key factor.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Paul Smith — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:30:05 GMT

I enjoyed the polls and the discussions that ensued. I just don't take the poll numbers very seriously, in terms of representing the will of at-large USMS membership. Interesting point, I would argue that the vast majority of participants in USMS which have been identified as "fitness" swimmers who do not compete are only members because the facility they train at requires them to be...yet we keep hearing that USMS needs to balance the time/energy of its resources on that group...but how? This college alliance is intriguing but I think tapping into high school seniors and even corporate wellness programs would offer even more possibilities and should be included in possible marketing/recruiting efforts. Lots of good ideas get hatched and debated here and I would still argue in spite of your skepticism that polling here vs. nothing is of value and that based on the people who are frequent visitors represents a pretty decent cross section of the membership. Make a decision based on info strictly from here...no, but certainly you'd think there would be more attempts to gauge what the folks want who are here and I have yet to see much of an organized attempt at that from USMS.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

ViveBene — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:20:51 GMT

A couple of different threads, this one and "What do you think of the Action Plan?", have converged on the topic of how to grow USMS. I have some ideas but think they don't go in a thread on what percentage of active swimmers are USMS members. That in itself is a valid question (I think). We've heard from a couple of LSMC chairs with respect to number of swimmers who work out with teams v. number who are registered USMS swimmers. Is it possible to do more sampling? I'd like to see more quantifying and benchmarking, which is generally the first step in developing an org. (Sampling means mother ship communicates to satellites what is desired.) I have to throw a tiny doubt on whether percentage of USMS swimmers among those who work out with teams (or other rubric) is a meaningful question. For the price of ten lattes, membership is a good deal. With Geek: "It's quite astonishing what folks expect for a paltry $35 or so a year." I'm going back to the Action Plan thread to post some ideas. Cheerio, Old and in the Way ;)

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:07:40 GMT

Are you talking about reaping future paid memberships when you say that free memberships would pay for themselves? Yes. Hook 'em early. I am faculty advisor to the swim club here at U of R. Interest on the club in competitive swimming is tremendous -- they just started and have over 25 people who are doing a time trial this Saturday so they can get times to go to race other clubs. There are 3 meets they are considering going to in this semester alone. I think USMS has limited appeal to them right now...they would rather hang out with other college kids then us old folks. But once they graduate they may want to continue with it. And college club swimming has many of the same good characteristics as USMS: ability to skip practices, not take it too seriously, change sets to suit your needs, and a social outlet. And dating opportunities: heck, I met my wife on a relay at a USMS meet! Who says "regional" teams are bad? :)

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

The Fortress — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:58:10 GMT

If I could get a USMS window decal I'd be a fully satisfied member. Oh, and if the Smiths were permanently banned from the forum also. You'd be bored and cranky. I want a car magnet. Then I'd be happy.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

ViveBene — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:47:46 GMT

I would pay very handsome additional membership dues to USMS if the organization had a dedicated squad of lawyers who would travel the country, forcing YMCAs to lower the water temperature in their pools from 117 degrees F to something slightly more compatible with non-noodling life forms. That is worthwhile, and a matter that could be taken up by the Education Committee of USMS. I think it is an achievable goal. I understand there are some attorney forumites, who in addition have "big guns." :D

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

aquageek — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:46:58 GMT

On the positive side, at a local (heavily attended) running race, I was one of the volunteers manning the USMS booth. We had plenty of people stop by, including current college swimmers who were psyched to become master swimmers after school. What if these college kids are foreigners here on scholarship? Can we really give them a free membership and deprive some American kid of the same right? Imagine the damage that could be done to American kids? I do not support this.

RE: what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:39:01 GMT

I am not convinced that membership discounts is the key factor. I think that USMS should give free or heavily discounted memberships to swimmers in the 18-24 age group. If they are even slightly successful in attracting these swimmers, it would easily pay for itself. On the positive side, at a local (heavily attended) running race, I was one of the volunteers manning the USMS booth. We had plenty of people stop by, including current college swimmers who were psyched to become master swimmers after school.