Blue 70 vs. LZR

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Doug Adamavich — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:54:02 GMT

I got a Blue Seventy Nero Comp shortie a few days before LCM Nationals. Got the 26 but I was on the borderline with it (I am 5'11" and about 190). Here are my initial thoughts. *I swam three lifetime bests at Portland, was 8/100ths off of another and had other very solid swims. Was it the pool, the suit, better dryland training, or a good taper? Dunno but I did swim fast. *It is a workout getting into the suit, especially the first few times. Stay try and use plastic bags. *Holy crap does it heat-up in the sun! Avoid sunlight as much as possible, that black fabric is a magnet for heat. *Fabric looks good so far. Did eight races total, one pre-nats workout, and three pre-meet warmup sessions. Will only wear this suit at big meets, otherwise will stick with lycra jammers. *During most of my swims I felt great, even the 400IM. I think the compression it provides helps reduce my muscle fatigue. *I did get water in the small of my back though, which I did not like. I reckon this added weight may have slightly hindered my swims. I don't like feeling like a water balloon! So far I have been happy with my Nero Comp. I think it helps at the margins for me, it certainly made a positive difference. In general the positives far outweighed the negatives for me. I will use it at Long Beach at their SCM meet in December and will see what happens there.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:04:26 GMT

Do you think you could have made PB times with your regular swim suit. Or did your swim suit do all your swimming for you? I have seen some of the new hightech suits (not LZR or the Blue 70s) that have an exit for water that ballons. It self expells water and air bubbles through unique stitching.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Dennis Tesch — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:56:45 GMT

Sorry been away for a while.... Maybe the suits are poorly made? All I'm reporting is that this is the experience of the swimmers that I'm selling suits too. I'm preparing my clients to deal with either poorly made stuff or elite suits that just will never last!!! I'm thinking if they are poorly made, then what will the cost be when they actually put good manufacturing behind them? $1000.00 - I can't take this anymore.. Ban the damn suits.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 05:23:50 GMT

swimoutlet.com no longer has a pre-order for the LZR or the Tracer Rise.Neither TYR nor Speedo have the the suits available on their websites.What happened? Theory: The suits will be banned from competition after the Olympics and thus why would you buy one?

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 05:08:30 GMT

...even the cheap stitch pattern they use which doesn't "seal" but rather "runs" when a thread tears is an example of cutting corners or poor QC...quote] Curious. Does this stitch pattern look like several lines of straight stitches on one side with criss-crossing stitches on the other, by any chance? Several of the Olympic finalists were wearing "Diana" suits. I looked them up out of curiousity, and the manufacturer claims they are "fused" together rather than sewn. I wonder if one of them would ever pull apart? www.allensswimwear.co.uk/main.asp

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

FlyQueen — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:47:11 GMT

swimoutlet.com no longer has a pre-order for the LZR or the Tracer Rise.Neither TYR nor Speedo have the the suits available on their websites.What happened? The LZR is still on Speedo's website - still pre-order.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:51:28 GMT

Almost everyone at nationals wore SOMETHING -- I don't remember seeing any briefs or even any jammers, it was all legskins and body suits, though maybe I missed something. It is psychologically VERY difficult to concede a potential advantage to one's competition. Hey Chris, I swam three events: 50 fly on Saturday, and a couple of 50s freestyle on Sunday. I wore a jammer for the fly, had a disappointing race, and decided to switch suits to a lycra brief ($17 at the tent sale) for Sunday. I found that the psychological advantage of the tech suits amounted to just about nothing for me. It was really the last thing on my mind when I was racing yesterday. Beyond that, race preparation was a lot easier and more relaxed because I was able to deck change into my racing suit. I dislike the all-bundled-up feeling of the body suits, especially when it's 100 degrees.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:00:59 GMT

Paul, I had no problems with my suit yesterday :)

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:56:37 GMT

No issues with mine. Wore it over a 2 day meet and 7 swims.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

knelson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:03:30 GMT

It does raise the point, though: why do some of the top competitors wear legskins only and not the whole thing? I believe Phelps only wears the full body for freestyle events. My guess is he doesn't like how the shoulder straps impede his stroke in fly. But certainly one of the alleged advantages of the LZR body suit is the core stabilization and you obviously wouldn't get the same effect with the legs only.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:52:53 GMT

i also used duct tape! I'm thinking it is only a matter of time until they make an all-duct-tape suit. Why not? It works for everything else! You get someone to put it on before the race and as an added advantage it removes all body hair when you take it off.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:48:31 GMT

Other than a few annoying lose threads I had no problem. I used it for two meets, a total of 16 swims (one of the meets had trials/finals). It only took about 5 minutes to put it on and I would be pulling and stretching without any problem to the suit. I got the kneeskin model though partly because it would be easier and faster to put on (and partly because I have such short legs that simultaneously fitting my legs and torso is a problem). Everyone is talking about the seams and that does seem a weak point. But my friend Bill Winters really hated how the suit filled up with water. He said it felt like he was wearing a parachute in starts and turns and felt so strongly about it that he started wearing his old (original) Speedo Fastskin. He allowed that it would probably be a great suit for open water swims because he definitely felt a lift from increased buoyancy. I have thought a lot about how and how much the suit helps. Maybe slightly off-topic, but here goes; sorry for the long post. When I was unrested/unshaved I used it at the VA Senior Champs and there is little doubt in my mind that the suit, combined with fast competition and championship environment, helped me swim significantly faster than a typical "in-season" masters meet. It reminded me of college seasons when you would shave in-season and take a few days rest in order to swim fast to make some NCAA cuts without unduly affecting the training cycle. A rough guestimate FOR ME would be that the suit decreased times by 0.5-1.0 sec per hundred under those conditions (unrested, unshaved). I can see a real use for the suit to approach end-of-season times without fully tapering. How much does it help compared to being fully tapered and shaved, however? That's the big question and I can't really answer it. My times improved but so did my training speed; I've only swum in 3 rested LCM meets in the past 20 years so I don't have a lot of data to look at trends; I can easily attribute ALL the improvement in times to improved training. I was swimming fast in warmup at nationals with the suit on...I was cruising 25 yards no-breath SDKs in 11 seconds with the same effort that it takes to go 13 seconds during the season. And I felt really high in the water. But I ALWAYS get that same feeling when I taper and shave and I just can't tell if it is even better with the suit than without it. In retrospect I'm kicking myself for not doing a little experiment at nationals...with relay leadoffs I swam the 50 back 3 times and my times were all fairly similar (27.95, 28.02, 28.08). I wish I had picked one of those swims and wore jammers only, but I didn't. Silly, but I was chasing Clay's 27.88 and thought I needed every advantage I could get, real or not, large or small. That brings me to another point. Almost everyone at nationals wore SOMETHING -- I don't remember seeing any briefs or even any jammers, it was all legskins and body suits, though maybe I missed something. It is psychologically VERY difficult to concede a potential advantage to one's competition. And, let's face it, we can all say we're just swimming against the clock and our past performances, and that might even be largely true, but everyone likes to place high too. Finally, at the Olympics, in the men's swimming I saw a mix of legskins and bodysuits in the non-freestyle events. I would think the bodysuits would provide more advantage but I did not see it. But that is based strictly on my recollection not on any actual data analysis. It does raise the point, though: why do some of the top competitors wear legskins only and not the whole thing?

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

knelson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:13:22 GMT

Hey Jazz Hands, great relay split yesterday! I was amazed at the number of Blue Seventy suits at the meet. I actually wondered how they were able to ramp up production like that when Speedo still hasn't released the LZR to the general public, I suspect Speedo did this to drive up demand after the Olympic, but in any event it's amazing a small company like B70 could produce that many suits that quickly. You've got to wonder if they rushed to get the suits out there and sewn up and perhaps that affected quality somewhat. So, in addition to total blowouts like Paul had, how is the durability of the Blue Seventy compared to the Speedo? Will it last longer than a meet or two? Also is it easier to put on?

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

swimkim — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:55:18 GMT

well paul, you pulled me out of the woodwork. i'm no clydesdale and got a size 26, b70. i am in the lower range of their size chart, but i have large quads for my size so i went with a 26. my seam split on the upper inside thigh. i think it is a design flaw. i think b70 didn't account for the stress of starts on that region. i put an old knee skin under it so it could slide around on subsequent starts. i also used duct tape!

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

The Fortress — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:37:27 GMT

Only 5 swims, but no problem so far. However, now I'm getting paranoid. Buying the suits as small as humanly possibly doesn't seem like the best idea ... They do seem very small in the butt area. Thus far, I've had more problems with the Pro. Really never though about a LZR because I thought they were even more fragile than the Pro.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

ande — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:03:40 GMT

I haven't had problems with mine but I'm very concerned about problems others have had I've seen and heard of LZR issues I'd also seen swimmers who poked holes in their B70's which I assumed happened because they weren't being careful enough when putting on their suit now there's reports of swimmers ripping their B70 suits while wearing them Some is because big guys are squeezing down into small suits ie hoch 6'5" 190 putting on a size 26 Wonder how this will be resolved?

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

swimshark — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:26:53 GMT

After seeing the workout that goes into putting one of these suits on and also zipping up Paul, I'll stick to my TYR tank, clip back. It got me 5 PB's this past weekend!

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:26:39 GMT

The only stacking I noticed was that some guys wore a brief under their bodysuit. Some of those bodysuits are pretty much transparent so I think the brief was there for coverage. On that note, can I get a ruling on whether we need to change what "pulling a Smith" means? I was right there at ground zero waiting for my 100 fly heat when the horror unfolded... er, unthreaded. :eek: Hmm sounds like more a sort of "Big Bang Theory" type event...:laugh2:

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:00:19 GMT

I think Blue70 has a 1 yr warranty on the zipper and seams. If you seam split, you can send it back and get a new one.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

knelson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:58:44 GMT

Sorry DT but I call bullshit. These guys have been making products for years and they simply got sloppy in their production (mine didn't even have a logo on it) because demand had skyrocketed... I tend to agree, Paul. It's sort of like buying a new car in its first model year. Better to hold off and wait till they work the bugs out.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Paul Smith — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:11:39 GMT

I am cracking up..... I sell suits for a partial living and I expect these high end suits not to last past a few meets or even swims. With the materials used, the types of seems, and the amount of compression designed into these suits I expect many of them to split, fail, etc from just being put on the many different body types out there. Come on Paul, being of the clydsdale body type and considering the many not so finely tuned masters bodies out there, you couldn't expect these suits to last too long! I'm trying to educate my customers that it probably isn't money well spent on these suits considering the small amount of advantage you truely gain from them. Sorry DT but I call bullshit. These guys have been making products for years and they simply got sloppy in their production (mine didn't even have a logo on it) because demand had skyrocketed...even the cheap stitch pattern they use which doesn't "seal" but rather "runs" when a thread tears is an example of cutting corners or poor QC. The material has as much or more stretch to it than an FS, FS Pro, etc. and they tout its durability and back it with a one year warranty...and by the way I've owned some very high tec racing wetsuits that haven't fallen apart (same with my FS & FS Pro's) in spite of my clydesdale proportions.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

The Fortress — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:09:37 GMT

On that note, can I get a ruling on whether we need to change what "pulling a Smith" means? I was right there at ground zero waiting for my 100 fly heat when the horror unfolded... er, unthreaded. :eek: "Pulling a Smith" to be more accurate!

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

knelson — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:29:04 GMT

The only stacking I noticed was that some guys wore a brief under their bodysuit. Some of those bodysuits are pretty much transparent so I think the brief was there for coverage. I was thinking more along the lines of, ahem, shall we say support.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

Former Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:22:23 GMT

I think the downsizing requirements cause most of the problems. If you size down either one, you may have problems with ripping and if you don't, they are too loose and fill up with water.

RE: Blue 70 vs. LZR

That Guy — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:21:39 GMT

Did anyone stack bodysuits at Nats as ande suggested? The only stacking I noticed was that some guys wore a brief under their bodysuit. Some of those bodysuits are pretty much transparent so I think the brief was there for coverage. On that note, can I get a ruling on whether we need to change what "pulling a Smith" means? I was right there at ground zero waiting for my 100 fly heat when the horror unfolded... er, unthreaded. :eek: