Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:22:34 GMT

There are some restrictions on advertising claims...see the class action against Airborne Herbal Supplement. These companies are not permitted to make claims of curing disease, sickness, etc.. Dr. Dean Edell is continuously on a rampage about these vendors peddling mostly worthless products to unsuspecting consumers with claims that border the limits of the law. I share his anger.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:07:17 GMT

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

The Fortress — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:41:16 GMT

I remember that suit! The specificity of the advertising claim determines the level of substantiation and whether it has to be scientific and/or a well-controlled study. The FTC will likely target other unsubstantiated OTC advertising soon too, particularly if enough consumers complain. I assume dietary supplements must at least conform to good manufacturing practices and avoid contamination with prescription drugs or controlled substances that are more heavily regulated ...

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

The Fortress — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:17:05 GMT

Placing blame on a supplement company is really quite meaningless anyhow, unless there is some verifiable proof that such contamination or mislabeling actually exists. Fort, you see regulation as in FDA oversight of what goes into these products? I doubt FDA would regulate them as a conventional food or drug, although they probably are treated as "food." There is an FDA Office of Nutritional Products that is governed by a different set of regulations. Products must be "safe" and truthfully labelled. Any adverse effects must be reported, etc. I think they're primarily targeting dietary pills and such. But the regs could be modified or interpreted to include these athletic supplements, particularly since their use (or misuse) seems to be burgeoning. For that matter, the FTC might one day begin to wonder about their advertising claims, if they haven't already.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

The Fortress — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:04:14 GMT

Probably because they all lawyer up. And lawyers are paid by the hour. The "reputable" supplement companies are going to respond by lawyering up. They're not just going to stand by and be the scapegoat for athletes, especially if athletes routinely plan and invoke supplement contamination as their fallback excuse. I recall reading somewhere that Hammer Nutrition threatened to sue some triathletes for libel and slander when they claimed contamined Hammer products caused them to test positive. I see regulation in the future as well.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:53:46 GMT

Also, why are drug cheats busted so quickly but it takes them weeks and months to figure out what story they are gonna tell to try to get out of it? Probably because they all lawyer up. And lawyers are paid by the hour. Hey, what's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:31:57 GMT

If the supplements are from a reputable manufacturer that a reasonable person would expect to be clean then my personal judgment of her moral character will be less severe than if she set out to deliberately use clenbuterol. This is where you and I disagree. Because I really don't know how we can trust anything she or her lawyer produce or say at this point. The only indisputable fact is that she failed her drug test. Give her the standard two year suspension as a first time offender and move on. Note that I did not say that she should be burned at the stake.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:34:07 GMT

He noted that Hardy has cooperated fully with USADA since she was informed July 21 of her positive test. Meaning what, that she answered their phone calls? He said investigations were trying to determine the source of the clenbuterol. Perhaps something she...ingested? Time to send in the Closer. Brenda (Kyra Sedgwick) can get her to talk.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

pwolf66 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 03:40:16 GMT

Hey, what's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer? One's an ugly, nasty, scum sucking bottom feeder and the other goes good with fries?

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

aquageek — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:37:22 GMT

Since supplements are unregulated what exactly would constitute reputable? Also, why are drug cheats busted so quickly but it takes them weeks and months to figure out what story they are gonna tell to try to get out of it?

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

aquageek — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:46:07 GMT

More news of doping: sports.espn.go.com/.../story Looks like the Ruskies are at it again. A sweet, innocent blonde American would never stoop to such lows, we know that for sure.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:57:05 GMT

Lefty, your correct that not all colleges have testing programs for swimmers like Texas, U of A, Auburn, etc...but to suggest that in this day and age a collegiate swimmer isn't aware of the problems with drugs and possibilities of tainted supplements I find hard to believe.... But that was not really the association I was making...my point is if your an elite swimmer with trials cuts, let along a pro like JH and a shot at making the team then you are rolling the dice if you choose to take anything into your body and not be VERY sure about what it is. JH was taking a huge amount of over the counter supplements...that in itself is enough for me to say she was pushing the envelope. We agree then. You did state "NCAA swimmer" earlier, but now that you have clarified... (and) I DO agree that at best JH was sutpid for taking OTC supplements. One might even argue willfully ignorant. Though GH Jr. was pretty poignant a few months back when he disclosed that he attempted to get supplement guidance from USSwimming and there advice was nothing more than be careful. Considering the consequences USswim should be a little more involved in this. If nothing else it would give one less crack for cheaters to attempt to hide in.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:53:01 GMT

One thing is certain in Texas with respect to the murder rate dropping since they put in the fast lane to the needle---EVERYONE that got the needle--- has not killed anyone since! That is deterrent in my book---

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:37:59 GMT

I'll see if I can find the study I read that supports this assumption. By the way.....my mom was a cop in So Cal on the Sheriff's Dept....She once worked at the women's jail in L.A........There were some that were so institutionalized that they would get out of jail on Mon and would be back in within a mnth because they literally KNEW that they had a better life on the inside........Look at what a lot of prisons have turned into with the PC mentality of this country.....They are glorified Country Clubs. I am specifically talking about some of the minimum security facilities. I say reopen Alcatraz and fill it up......no TV, no Cable, no weight rooms. no Rec Rooms.....a real prison. And see how many people want to actually spend time there compared to others.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:16:43 GMT

Look at Texas.....they put in a fast lane for death row.......I do believe statistics show their murder rate has dropped some. This assertion has no stastical basis. Murder rates have declined everywhere the past 30 years. No more or less so in Texas. If rates dropped significantly more in states that had a death penatly than this would be relelvent, but that is not remotely the case. I was born in Texas 32 years ago so we might as well attribute the drop to me. One thing I really like about Geek is that he'll tell you the truth. He likes the death penalty because it gives victems revenge. At least he is honest (Geek if I am misattributing you I apologize).

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:09:55 GMT

It was stated several pages earlier that NCAA level swimmers are fully aware of the risks of taking supplements. This is not what I have experienced. Most college swimmers buy their supplements at the nutrion store. That is the extent of their quality assurance. At top tier (swimming) Universities this is probably not the case, but that is the exception not the norm. I wonder if the testing is less encompassing in the NCAA? It seems that the prevelent opinion being expressed here is that there is no such thing as an honest mistake. Lindsay must be naive or living in utopia for wanting to find out more about the circumstances before labeling JH a lieing cheat and banning her for life. But it seems to be that the true naivete being asserted here is basing a serious conviction - that noone is ever falsely labeled - on limited personal experiences.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:03:14 GMT

Oh, puh-leeze. You mean the 'we sentence you to death, well, maybe not, we have to hear a billion appeal attempts, clemency appeals, protests, oh wait, now it's the human rights folks protesting the mental anguish aspect' silliness? And NO punishment would be a 100% deterrent but if it deters 10%, is it worth it? So you think that is the thought process that a criminal has before killing somebody? That they will lead a cushy life behind bars and evade their execution via countless appeals? Possible, but not probable. We are obviously talking about two very different crimes and punishments here, but my point is that the perpetrators of these crimes are probably not terribly concerned about the consequences of their actions. They are interested in the here and now.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:56 GMT

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:50:23 GMT

That we cannot know if she really did know how to spell clenbuterol (not even sure I'm spelling it right!) before she tested positive is pretty obvious at this point. I think the problem is that you come off sounding like JH could be a victim here. And, I don't think some of us agree that she can consider herself a true victim even if she recklessly took something that was tainted. SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT WENT INTO HER BODY. PERIOD. No one is claiming to be god on high--with intimate knowledge of JH's every thought or intent. But, she can't claim to be entirely innocent. She had the drug in her system. She is not an innocent victim unless it's proven that someone snuck into her hotel room the night before the event and injected her in her sleep. Then I will recant everything I've said. THAT would make her an innocent victim. Anything short of that leaves her responsible for her own actions. Amy, I apologize if I come off as thinking she is a victim.....not intended that way at all......the only possible way that she could be a victim here is if the test was flawed.....not likely since the B sample was POS as well. And that would have been tested at a separate lab from the first....the only other possibility is the chain of custody........all I really take issue with here is the outright conviction before all the results are in. My opinion still is.....if you admit to or knowingly cheat....LIFETIME ban. no excuses no recourse.....you're done.

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:45:13 GMT

A reposting from 2 Aug 08 "Honestly, I believe JH shook hands with someone who must have intentionally put this PED into her system---or, maybe a meteorite slammed through her hotel roof while she was soundly sleeping the night before her race--and it had the PED on it from flying through the atmosphere---and it landed next to her bed and the dust got on her--and the maid cleaned up the mess before she realized she had been infected by the meteorite---Maybe she sat on a toilet seat that someone intentionally doctored with PED powder to make sure she tested + so their swimmer could have a better chance---All are obviously plausible given the fact that no one ever knowingly takes PED.":dunno: __________________

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:39:02 GMT

Nothing. Ok...maybe some recreational, non-performance enhancing....I think I'll stop there! Yeah, you and me both........:lmao:

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:38:08 GMT

As for being an old fart swimming masters I have openly acknowledged trying creatine...and if you or anyone else ever has a concern about my possibly using something illegal send the tester unannounced any day, any time...I'll even pay for the test results. Now you sound like Dara... ;)

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:37:44 GMT

Wow. I think you have a reading comprehension problem... I don't believe I was talking about anyone here was I? I suppose you think it's possible that clen was found in JH's urine but that doesn't mean she cheated. So her swims were then possibly legal? I guess you also think that she could possibly come out of this whole thing looking like an angel. You don't seem to acknowledge that, whether she knew she ingested clen or had no idea she was taking a tainted form of one of 12 supplements (that USA Swimming warned her about) she looks either guilty of doping or incredible foolishness (I'd venture to say, recklessness). You have not read what I said................ My position is...she tested positive....for now she is done with swimming..period! If they can prove the tests were tainted or that the chain of custody was broken, she could possibly be reinstated. If they can not prove that....minimum....2 years out of swimming.....REGARDLESS of how it got in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What I have a problem with.......AGAIN......is people in here spewing garbage about the fact that they ABSOLUTELY KNOW she did this on purpose!!!!!!! That is preposterous.....unless there name is God and they know everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:35:48 GMT

I also detect a bit of hypocrisy here in the holier-than-thou statements ? Yeah and then some but hey, to err is human to forgive is divine right? Kill em all and let god sort it out...ayayayaa

RE: Hardy Withdrawals From Olympic Team!

Former Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:33:50 GMT

Some good things starting to happen on testing, hopefully this will help for where athletes have found something undetectable right now: IOC to store athletes' test samples for eight years www.usatoday.com/.../2008-07-28-ioc-drug-testing_N.htm Whoa there goes the horse...quick bolt the stable now! Seriously, couldn't they have done this before?