YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Muppet — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:13:48 GMT

I’m guessing you haven’t priced out a set of touch pads lately. And while taking 9 pads to the pool for a meet isn’t too much trouble, loading the van with 18 pads gets to be big deal. Hehe, Rob, you know, I did think of adding a parenthetical reference as to the availability and cost of an extra set of pads, but decided i'd leave that part out.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Rykno — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:50:48 GMT

Were the pads plugged in at the turn side? I.e., were you getting 25 yard/meter splits on all races? Also, with respect to converting the turning judges into timers... yikes! How many turning judges do you have? We usually have two timers per lane, but we're lucky to get two stroke/turn judges on each end for most meets. -Rick no, we don't always get the splits in a 25m pool, but having the touch pads in makes the walls the same. I thought it was funny at first, but I think I remember someone telling me they were required on both ends for records to be counted. however in a 50m pool we always get the 50 splits. as far as officials go, we almost always have: the double timing system in the pads, and a timer taking the third time. each lane has a turning judge at the opposite end, in the 800 and 1500 the turning judges also hold the lap counter the timers double as a turning judge. then two side judges a main judge a starter.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Former Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:01:43 GMT

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Muppet — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:24:15 GMT

You should come up to DC in October. The GMU Patriot Masters Sprint Classic features unsanctioned 25s at the conclusion of the meet. We'll have to check with the meet director, but it seems to me that a large portion of the meet attendees participate. Swim all four to be considered for the fastest man and woman award. Two forumites, Fortress and Warren, won last year.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

chowmi — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:21:04 GMT

Yes Yes Yes! And the 4 x 25 relays!!!!

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:12:48 GMT

I can't imagine feeling any sort of pain in such a short race. Why swim it? :D You really have to wonder about a sport that produces this kind of mentality, even if it was a joke. Especially since I found myself nodding in agreement!

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

pakman044 — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:58:06 GMT

There are two constraints when conducting 25's. They aren't insurmountable, but are relevant: 1. When you have a pool with touchpads on both ends, the pool has to be measured for touchpads on both ends. Some pools aren't long enough to have touchpads on both ends (i.e., a pool could be just long enough with one set of touchpads, but becomes too short with a second set of touchpads). 2. If you opt for one set of touchpads, and make the reasonable choice of leaving them at the same end throughout the meet (not only is it a pain to move them, but all sorts of things can go wrong when you do so), the shallow end of the pool may tbe too shallow to dive in from blocks (or there may be no blocks); you may need to dive in from the deck or start from in the pool. For me personally, I wouldn't be overjoyed for a 25 (I'm ridiculously slow at the start), and in many ways I'm still overwhelmed by the selection of events in Masters meets in comparison to when I was younger in USA Swimming. But that certainly doesn't mean that other people might not enjoy them. As Rob noted, just because 25's and 4x25 relays aren't recognized events, it doesn't mean meets can't offer them. And I think in the end, if there's a desire to get them "officially" into the rulebook, that's the best way to do it--get meet directors to offer them at meets, get swimmers used to seeing them at meets, and then that will eventually bring consensus if done correctly. And after all, if we can do 25's for 8 & unders (or whatever age), there's no reason we can't do 25's for everyone. Patrick King

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Former Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:43:38 GMT

I can't imagine feeling any sort of pain in such a short race. Why swim it?

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Former Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:41:31 GMT

GMU has blocks on a bulkhead that head towards the starting end. hell, then why stop at 25's? keep rolling that bulkhead until said participants can dive across without getting wet!

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Former Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:36:38 GMT

You had me all excited talking about 25s. But became very disappointed after reading it was 25K not 25 Meters

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

aquageek — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:00:42 GMT

why can't they be innovative and fun enough to offer 25's at meets? I'd rather go to a backstroke flip-turn clinic by Stud than suffer through watching adults swim 25s.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Rob Copeland — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:52:14 GMT

Setting up touchpads at one or both ends of a pool is not that big of a deal. I’m guessing you haven’t priced out a set of touch pads lately. And while taking 9 pads to the pool for a meet isn’t too much trouble, loading the van with 18 pads gets to be big deal.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Muppet — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:23:35 GMT

As a meet director person... in many pools, 25's are a nightmare. It means you either need to get touchpads working at the turn end, or get starting blocks and speakers and starting system working at the turn end. In big masters meets with lots of other things to go wrong, I'm not looking for more things that could go wrong. :-) Setting up touchpads at one or both ends of a pool is not that big of a deal. A lot of meets still use manual timing, especially smaller regions. As for blocks, a lot of big meets take place in big pools. Most of these are 50M nowadays, which means there are holes for blocks on the bulkheads. Heck, why not just have everyone start on the side of the pool if you can't get pads/blocks to work? GMU has blocks on a bulkhead that head towards the starting end.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Rob Copeland — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:22:49 GMT

USMS does allow 25’s. We just don’t keep records or top 10 for these. In this way it is similar to the 25K (no records or top 10). 25’s and 4X25 relays can be offered at any sanctioned or recognized event (except nationals). I’m thinking of adding them to a meet I’m running this fall.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

ande — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:14:29 GMT

read what I wrote my point is if USMS could figure out how to launch a 25k national championships why can't they be innovative and fun enough to offer 25's at meets? ok, I'm confused with Ande's post and then the replies. Ande startes off talking about 25km open water events, and then all the replies are for 25m sprints... I too wish that 25's would make a come back.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

osterber — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:48:30 GMT

I've only been to 4 Master's meets but in all 4 of them we've had touch pads on both ends of the pool. doing 25's would only require moving the starter and two side judges. if you wanted to end the race on the normal start side, otherwise, just have the turning judges be timers, and then you just have a runner, run the back up watches around to the other side before the 25's start. but in the LCM meet I attended in June, I was glad we started the 50's on the same side as the rest of the events, the blocks were so outdated on the turning side. Were the pads plugged in at the turn side? I.e., were you getting 25 yard/meter splits on all races? Also, with respect to converting the turning judges into timers... yikes! How many turning judges do you have? We usually have two timers per lane, but we're lucky to get two stroke/turn judges on each end for most meets. -Rick

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

aquageek — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:45:10 GMT

what's it gonna take to get 25's added to the list of events USMS recognizes? Medical/military grade weed.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Rykno — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:32:21 GMT

As a meet director person... in many pools, 25's are a nightmare. It means you either need to get touchpads working at the turn end, or get starting blocks and speakers and starting system working at the turn end. In big masters meets with lots of other things to go wrong, I'm not looking for more things that could go wrong. :-) -Rick I've only been to 4 Master's meets but in all 4 of them we've had touch pads on both ends of the pool. doing 25's would only require moving the starter and two side judges. if you wanted to end the race on the normal start side, otherwise, just have the turning judges be timers, and then you just have a runner, run the back up watches around to the other side before the 25's start. but in the LCM meet I attended in June, I was glad we started the 50's on the same side as the rest of the events, the blocks were so outdated on the turning side.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

Rykno — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:27:14 GMT

ok, I'm confused with Ande's post and then the replies. Ande startes off talking about 25km open water events, and then all the replies are for 25m sprints... I too wish that 25's would make a come back.

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

osterber — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:18:58 GMT

RE: YES! I want usms to offer 25's!

The Fortress — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:06:42 GMT

Yes Yes Yes! And the 4 x 25 relays!!!! Me too! Awesome relay idea.