Shubert digs Masters Swimming

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:55:55 GMT

But I think she is only swimming a little faster than she did in her prime. If we are comparing her to herself, and not the thousands that will never be as fast as she was/is, then it's not that astounding just because she is 41. With improvements in training techniques, stroke techniques, nutrition, etc. since the 1980s, there are plenty of folks 40+ (like yourself, GoodSmith) that could go as fast as they did 'back in the day' if they could spare eight hours a day for training, stretching, getting massages, etc. I must concur with Mr. Smith - there is NO WAY in hell that I will approach my best times from my "prime", even if I were to train full-time. My body is simply not what it was in my early 20s. A BlueSeventy Nero Comp, less yardage, etc may help me be at my 44+ best, but I think it is physiologically nearly impossible to achieve my earlier bests. I doubt whether I could even do it with creatine, HGH, etc, etc...

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:36:56 GMT

knelson is correct. What Dara is achieving has never been done in the sport. I would liken her accomplishments to those of Phelps or even better. John Smith But I think she is only swimming a little faster than she did in her prime. If we are comparing her to herself, and not the thousands that will never be as fast as she was/is, then it's not that astounding just because she is 41. With improvements in training techniques, stroke techniques, nutrition, etc. since the 1980s, there are plenty of folks 40+ (like yourself, GoodSmith) that could go as fast as they did 'back in the day' if they could spare eight hours a day for training, stretching, getting massages, etc.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:52:41 GMT

Schubert has always been an ass. vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.htm Mission Viejo's men swam well enough to give the Nadadores the overall team title even though some of the key women were ill. But several of the women were overweight and Schubert angrily banned Browne, Hooker and a couple of others until they had shed some pounds.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:49:17 GMT

knelson is correct. What Dara is achieving has never been done in the sport. I would liken her accomplishments to those of Phelps or even better. ..... none of which is relevant to Masters swimming. The comparison is irrelevant. Masters swimmers don't swim to make the Olympic team. It's not the goal....... at least no realistically. John Smith

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:24:04 GMT

Dara's accomplishments have always been impressive, but it's not particulary noteworthy that she's still performing at the level she did 20 years ago. Many of us USMS swimmers are not that far off what we were doing 20 years ago. But since those times weren't world records, nobody outside the USMS community cares. And the reason we are not going faster is that we put our relationships with our partners and children, and our careers if we have them, ahead of our pursuit of athletic glory. I'm not judging Dara. We all have to make our own choices. But I'm also not one bit jealous.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:38:56 GMT

I completely admire true masters swimmers competing at the level they do. I think it's amazing, whether they're like you or Tall Paul and setting WRs or like Stud, kicking ass personally. OK I am definitely not in the elite swimmer catergory...or kicking much ass. Chris...not sure if your a "drinking man" but love to think someday we'll sit down, have to many beers....and you'll let your "hair down" and ditch all the math-stats/PC stuff and fire away with how you really feel! You got it. Oregon? Whomever has the biggest time drop from last year LCM gets a free beer...or three... OK, now, here the field levels a bit...it's about drive (who is going to get me home), guts (who can hold 'em), and endurance (I really need to pee!) Who wants it more?? Shame I'm not in Oregon!!!

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:30:44 GMT

I found the quote very funny. Soy un perdedor, as Beck might say. Now with the Beck reference. Thanks, I have that song now ingrained in my head.... "I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me"

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:36:39 GMT

a link on the u.s.m.s. main page says that 28 current and former masters swimmers qualify for the olympic trials based on their times. Masters swimming is not for losers. I think the comments were the author's, and not shubert's, and were just part of the author's attempt to frame Torres as some sort of type A personality.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Paul Smith — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:47:01 GMT

You got it. Oregon? Whomever has the biggest time drop from last year LCM gets a free beer...or three... Perfect!

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Paul Smith — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:45:36 GMT

But I think she is only swimming a little faster than she did in her prime. If we are comparing her to herself, and not the thousands that will never be as fast as she was/is, then it's not that astounding just because she is 41. With improvements in training techniques, stroke techniques, nutrition, etc. since the 1980s, there are plenty of folks 40+ (like yourself, GoodSmith) that could go as fast as they did 'back in the day' if they could spare eight hours a day for training, stretching, getting massages, etc. Not true. If it was you would see far more than the handful of 40+ year old athletes in pro sports already doing it. As JS points out...what we are seeing is unprecedented in our sport, and maybe all sports. An athlete taking two 7 year breaks comes back at 41 to set the AR.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:08:15 GMT

During the broadcast of the trials it was mentioned several times how it is very difficult for swimmers to continue their training after they leave college. Not so much because of time, though I'm sure that plays a part as well, but mostly because there aren't really that many training programs throughout the country that address the post college swimmers needs-if they want to continue their pursuit of a spot on the olympic team. Didn't G. Hall start one down in Florida for that exact reason? I'd be curious to know how many swimmers just fade out of the elite swimmers circle after their college career only to surface years later as a masters swimmer.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Paul Smith — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:02:11 GMT

Sure, good point. And the number that is impressive is "41," not 4 vs 5. Still, I continue to believe that SVDL's accomplishments in masters (based on her training) are at least as impressive as Torres'. I was irritated by the "losers" comment, sure. But the parts of that paragraph that REALLY raised my eyebrows were David Hoffman's comments ("he'll be relieved when Torres emerges from her Olympic training tunnel" and "I can't wait until this is over.") "Other areas of life," indeed. Chris...not sure if your a "drinking man" but love to think someday we'll sit down, have to many beers....and you'll let your "hair down" and ditch all the math-stats/PC stuff and fire away with how you really feel!

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:46:59 GMT

A world record is a world record. Nothing short of that. Maybe what Schubert was implying is that a 20 something who competes on the world class level shouldn't hold too much merit in taking down a masters record. Even though the masters age grouping starts at 19 to 24...this category is a different animal altogether (than those who compete during their middle age years and beyond).

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

knelson — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:34:16 GMT

But since those times weren't world records That's a huge BUT, though. Nobody else her age is anywhere close to swimming at the level Dara is.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Iwannafly — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:22:33 GMT

So since I didn't swim would that put my times ~ infinite? If so I want in!!!! Well, I want in anyway. Beer is good. No Paul, I think it puts your time as NAN. You can't divide by zero!:thhbbb:

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

tjrpatt — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:01:14 GMT

Du Didn't G. Hall start one down in Florida for that exact reason? I'd be curious to know how many swimmers just fade out of the elite swimmers circle after their college career only to surface years later as a masters swimmer. Isn't Hall's program only for swimmers with national rankings.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:41:32 GMT

My thought about this is that a master's record is an age group record. I'll bet that Schubert would be VERY enthusiastic about any kid he ever coached who broke an age-group record, so what's wrong with old people setting one?

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

pwolf66 — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:35:30 GMT

Now with the Beck reference. Thanks, I have that song now ingrained in my head.... "I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me" "termite, choking on a splinter'

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

pwolf66 — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:33:39 GMT

You got it. Oregon? Whomever has the biggest time drop from last year LCM gets a free beer...or three... So since I didn't swim would that put my times ~ infinite? If so I want in!!!! Well, I want in anyway. Beer is good.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:24:52 GMT

Chris...not sure if your a "drinking man" but love to think someday we'll sit down, have to many beers.... You got it. Oregon? Whomever has the biggest time drop from last year LCM gets a free beer...or three...

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

aquageek — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 08:04:58 GMT

I found the quote very funny. Soy un perdedor, as Beck might say.

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:52:01 GMT

Wow, that comment has me all fired up. Whether it was Schubert or the author... it was a bit uncalled for. You can't really compare the two! Like ande said, let's invite the jerk who said that to swim a nice 200 fly, 800 free or 400 im in a masters meet and see if they want to call the people in the next lane to them losers. Odds are, it was the author's words... and they obviously have no clue what masters swimming means. :censor::censor:

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:50:17 GMT

Craig68, While Paul and I appreciate your confidence, we must be honest and tell you that there is NO way WE could approach and equal our best times from college in our early '40s. If I quit my job and trained full time, I would be lucky to come within 1.5 seconds of my 100yd free and 4-5 seconds of my 200yd free. Long Course is only a worse comparison. My body does not have the strength it once did, and without serious drugs I could not rebuild it to it's former condition. Even then, it is questionable as to whether I could make a US national cut anymore. Keep in mind, Paul and I are about 3 seconds off our best 100yd free times and about 8-10 seconds off what we once did in the 200. The 100 may seem decent for a masters swimmer, but it's WAY out of the ball park when compared to real swim at US Nationals. The norm for guys like us now that swam at Nationals in the 1980s is usually around 3+ seconds slower on a 100 and 8+ or more on a 200. The 50 is about a 8 tenths to a second slower and getting worse ever 3-4 years. Paul and I can't even fathom going a 43 in the 100yd free at our age anymore. We simply don't have the raw power and the testosterone to do it. There's just NO comparison to what Dara is doing. We are not in the same league with her anymore...... and believe me, there was a day when it wasn't a problem for us to beat her in a 50 or a 100 ...... :-) What she is doing is truly unprecedented. Remember the more elite of a swimmer you were, the more difficult it becomes to approach your old performances. Susan Vonderlippe's and Dennis Baker's times are what I would expect on the high end for a person in their 40's with serious talent and motivation.... both are right about at national cuts. John Smith

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:01:31 GMT

Even though Schubert has a Dutch wife, I have always thought he was a d-bag... Even though?! :laugh2:

RE: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

Former Member — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:00:08 GMT

Even though Schubert has a Dutch wife, I have always thought he was a d-bag...