NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Paul Smith — Thu, 29 May 2008 06:36:35 GMT

Paul, I have been working on a project in my spare time that relates to this. I remembered your post and wanted to show you that statistics sometmies is a good thing! I used the (statistically based!) performance rating system described on www.vaswim.org/.../rcalc.cgi and came up with the top 25 USMS swims from LCM and SCM in 2007. To make some attempt to preserve the table formatting, I put it in a text file and have attached it to this message (it works on Notepad for me). It only includes USMS members -- I got the performances from the Top Ten database. Susan does quite well, as you can see. In fact, if you assign points to places (1st gets 25, 2nd 24, etc) and then add them up, you get the following totals Laura Val: 236 Susan Von Der Lippe: 146 Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen: 144 Caroline Krattli: 74 Lois Nochman: 24 Sue Walsh: 14 Rita Simonton: 12 So SVdL comes in 2nd among US women. This omits SCY and non-USMS masters (it wouldn't be very difficult to include the latter, I just hadn't planned on doing so). Still, it is hard to believe that the 2nd best US masters swimmer is not one of the top 12 in the world. Chris...got any time to help me with my taxes this year?! :) I want to clarify again that I in no way was implying that any of the swimmers selected were not VERY worthy (believe it or not someone told LV that was what I had implied)...my point all along was that something didn't add up if Ms. Susan wasn't included. Thanks for backing up my "gut" feeling and let me know when I can send all my tax paperwork over!

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 29 May 2008 05:52:58 GMT

Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards. Paul, I have been working on a project in my spare time that relates to this. I remembered your post and wanted to show you that statistics sometmies is a good thing! I used the (statistically based!) performance rating system described on www.vaswim.org/.../rcalc.cgi and came up with the top 25 USMS swims from LCM and SCM in 2007. To make some attempt to preserve the table formatting, I put it in a text file and have attached it to this message (it works on Notepad for me). It only includes USMS members -- I got the performances from the Top Ten database. Susan does quite well, as you can see. In fact, if you assign points to places (1st gets 25, 2nd 24, etc) and then add them up, you get the following totals Laura Val: 236 Susan Von Der Lippe: 146 Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen: 144 Caroline Krattli: 74 Lois Nochman: 24 Sue Walsh: 14 Rita Simonton: 12 So SVdL comes in 2nd among US women. This omits SCY and non-USMS masters (it wouldn't be very difficult to include the latter, I just hadn't planned on doing so). Still, it is hard to believe that the 2nd best US masters swimmer is not one of the top 12 in the world.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:49:13 GMT

Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards. I think their putting Laura V on the cover and their promotion of masters is awesome...they just missed the boat on leaving SVDL out this year as they will next year because she won't be swimming in the meets they use to score by. Back when I was part of the panel, we did look beyond stats. We also considered swimmers who primarily participated in open water and long distance events. I fought hard for Wally Dicks, Tom Landis, Greg Shaw, and even you - swimmers who had fewer records and AA's than other swimmers, but whose swims were of exceptional quality. When we did that, people who had more records and AA's whined about not being on the list. As you can imagine, I've seen a lot of that, but never from SvdL.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:48:51 GMT

I agree 100%. She's one of the most accomplished swimmers among the Masters, yet one of the most humble. You will never hear her whining about the Swimming World Top 12, and you won't see her throwing a tantrum about All-American lists not appearing in SWIMMER. People who think those things validate their swimming could learn a lot from Susan. :applaud: If you're looking for fame and fortune, swimming is the wrong avenue to follow. If you're looking for an avenue in which to pursue some personal achievement goals, welcome.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:24:26 GMT

It's good to see "real" people excel. I agree 100%. She's one of the most accomplished swimmers among the Masters, yet one of the most humble. You will never hear her whining about the Swimming World Top 12, and you won't see her throwing a tantrum about All-American lists not appearing in SWIMMER. People who think those things validate their swimming could learn a lot from Susan. :applaud:

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:06:23 GMT

Susan's accomplishments are so impressive. She is the "real" thing. Her final quote in the article says it all. She swims on a budget with family concerns coming first. Whether or not she is doing it for a free deck pass or to race again, I hope she gets the proper coverage being the oldest female at the Trials. It's good to see "real" people excel. John Smith

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:36:20 GMT

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:29:34 GMT

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:22:36 GMT

As is the case with many elite masters...like Josh Davis for example...they're still riding on the wave of base training and technique from their younger days. I'm nowhere near an elite masters (just a plain masters) and I noticed something similar in my training with the kids. First, I found that as a masters, I really did not train fly sets (I would do a few 25s and 50s here and there and leave it at that). And when I did swim fly sets in practice with the kids or with masters, I was really SLOW. So, I'm doing some fly sets with the kids and I'm going last in my lane and just making the intervals. However, when it was time to race 100 and 200s fly for time, I ended up outswimming those same kids comfortably. Now I wasn't loafing the sets by any means (was trying my best). I just attribute my ability to go fast when it counted (get into that next gear) due to my 20+ years of swimming experience, past training, and muscle memory. :2cents: Anyway, I'm thrilled for SVDL. She is my hero. I, however, could never train three days a week and get OT cuts. I found that when I swam 3x/ week in the past, I could NOT do anything over a 100.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:10:41 GMT

As is the case with many elite masters...like Josh Davis for example...they're still riding on the wave of base training and technique from their younger days. "She resumed swimming in her mid-30s, working out three times a week with a masters team. ...She credits her fast times to the mileage base she built in her younger days, muscle memory, the full-body suits that were introduced in 2000 and a more relaxed attitude. Von der Lippe circuit-trains in a weight room and swims three mornings a week, for 90 minutes at a time. Elite swimmers generally have 5 to 12 workouts in the water a week." Not everyone is going to excel with such a modest training schedule.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:02:44 GMT

3 days a week may not be impressive, but she's in the Olympic Trials and I'm not. So, I'm not going to gain-say her. -LBJ

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:42:45 GMT

According to the article she doesn't just swim three days a week either... Von der Lippe circuit-trains in a weight room and swims three mornings a week, for 90 minutes at a time. Elite swimmers generally have 5 to 12 workouts in the water a week. “Three times a week is pretty good for a mom to go out and exercise,” von der Lippe said. Sounds like she is doing more than just swimming to me.....

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:31:02 GMT

Right - like I said, three days a week is better than zero days a week. Personally, I'd go crazy if I only worked out for 1.5 hours or so a week. You are getting to a base level of fitness with that time, nothing more. But you also said, "what's the point?" Anyways, yes - I did get to a base level of fitness - no olympic trial cut here. ;)

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:08:21 GMT

I think this goes a lot to what Paul Smith said on another thread somewhere.. as we get older our body needs more recovery time.....maybe she found the best routine for her to use and still be able to compete at the highest level. For those doubters out there......have you ever tried training and only swimming 3 days a week? Doing strength and conditioning stuff the other days? I say unless you have tried it how do you know that it's "somewhat unhealthy" or "neither sufficient or impressive"? Just my :2cents: of course. I have found personally that only swimming 3 days a week and doing physical therapy exercises a couple of days "seems" to be working pretty good for my arm problems. So I am contemplating using this formula for a while instead of pounding out the yards like I was trying to do last year.......

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:05:56 GMT

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:55:56 GMT

I have to agree with Fort in that 3X a week is neither sufficient nor impressive, for the average person. Obviously Von der Lippe is the exception to this. If all you can muster is 3 days, what's the point? I guess 3 days is better than no days but that's about all. I don't think we should set the bar so low for mothers. I happen to reside with one who does well over 3 days a week, and doubles many of those days. Yes but any time away from you is motivation and reward enough I am sure... :lmao:

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

ande — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:47:32 GMT

I spoke with Josh Davis he said most of his training comes from doing his www.USASwimmer.com swim clinics at some point during the clinic he's in the water and races the kids in a 50 I think he also has a lap pool in his front yard. Plus he wore an LZR at Nats He has a new book coming out called The Goal & The Glory: World-Class Athletes Share Their Inspiring Stories Since the apostle Paul, athletic training and competition have inspired countless believers towards excellence in their faith. Now gain fight-the-good-fight insights from world-class Chrisitian athletes---including past Olympic champions and current hopefuls! Compiled by 5-Time Olympic Medalist Josh Davis, this unique devotional features 60 meditations exploring dedication and sacrifice while practicing God's presence on the road to glory. Coming to a book store near you...June 2008 Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

aquageek — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:42:08 GMT

Geek...your on the wrong website...go over hang with your multisport buds and talk about how many hours/miles/yards you trained today...by the way, thought of you on your cute little aero bars watching some of your buds "dropped" into position riding in stop & go traffic....where its SO important to be aerodynamic!!! In the unlikely event you and your halfling toothless first cousin ever decided to challenge yourself and leave the life aquatic, there are a few of us waiting to enjoy that spectacle. I'm glad my foto brings you such displeasure as that was its precise target and intended purpose. Oh, I stopped by the only other website you visit, fleetwoodmacforever.com, and they said that if you still listen to their lifeless lame fairy music that you must immediately apply for AARP and get an extensive prostate checkup.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

Paul Smith — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:21:22 GMT

Susan trains smarter/harder in 3x swim workouts a week than you can imagine. And don't be fooled by her circuit training comment...I know what she does and its pathetic (I love ya SVDL but we've talked about this!). As I have posted numerous times...and gotten (S)he slapped for it...low yardage high intensity training is highly effective if your goals are clear (that your race vs fitness motivated and have a realistic event line up). there is no need what so ever as a competive masters swimmer to train at the voumne 95% train at. Geek...your on the wrong website...go over hang with your multisport buds and talk about how many hours/miles/yards you trained today...by the way, thought of you on your cute little aero bars watching some of your buds "dropped" into position riding in stop & go traffic....where its SO important to be aerodynamic!!! Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards. I think their putting Laura V on the cover and their promotion of masters is awesome...they just missed the boat on leaving SVDL out this year as they will next year because she won't be swimming in the meets they use to score by.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

aquageek — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:21:12 GMT

Running is a great way to cut baby fat. And adult fat.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

chowmi — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:16:02 GMT

One of the things I love most about SVdL is how she pokes fun at her body.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

The Fortress — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:02:15 GMT

It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training. She is faster than 95% (maybe more?) of the women in Masters regardless of age. She is faster than a huge percentage of the men - regardless of age. Her 200 IM time was faster than all but 35 men's times at Nationals. She was the fastest woman at Nats. Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old. I think SVDL's training in MOST IMPRESSIVE. As Geek said, who's questioning her training?! Re-read. When the debate got going it was over the generic question of whether 3x a week of working out is impressive. Sarah: I hear you, but you will see that I exempted women with newborns and multiple small babies. It's much more difficult to work out then, as I know from experience. I didn't start competing until age 44. But as you adjust to a family and they get a bit older, you can find time to train or work out, as Ms. Geek does. But it does take discipline. Running is a great way to cut baby fat. Much more effective than swimming IMHO. I'm sure 3x a week of SWIMMING would be fine for most masters to excel if they also supplemented with activities others do -- yoga, stretching, running, spinning, lifting, drylands, etc. It's just misleading to say you can be amazing by only swimming 3x a week and nothing else -- unless you're a rare talent like SVDL or Josh Davis. Those folks are just in another league talent wise. I agree with Bill about world class whining. Not appealing. It's refreshing to meet people like SVDL, Rich Abrahams or Chris Stevenson who are humble and actually interested in how others are doing.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

aquageek — Mon, 12 May 2008 10:50:13 GMT

It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training. I think if you will read the posts more carefully, all of us have gone out of our way to state that she is in a class by herself. We are speaking more to the mere mortals, not her.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

aquageek — Mon, 12 May 2008 09:27:00 GMT

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with some of you about how only exercising 3x a week is not very respectful. Last year when I stopped swimming in the spring - I started a running program and it was only 3x a week (35-40 min each workout), I watched what I ate - and lost 25 lbs (pregnancy weight that was being stubborn about going away). I thought that was a pretty darn great accomplishment. :banana: Right - like I said, three days a week is better than zero days a week. Personally, I'd go crazy if I only worked out for 1.5 hours or so a week. You are getting to a base level of fitness with that time, nothing more. tj - note you only swim 3 days a week but do other stuff as well. Therefore, you don't just work out three days a week.

RE: NY Times Sunday article on Susan Von der Lippe

aquageek — Mon, 12 May 2008 08:09:14 GMT