Phelps Article

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Wed, 21 May 2008 05:40:15 GMT

Is "Frogs" an appropriate term? Yes.

RE: Phelps Article

knelson — Wed, 21 May 2008 01:11:15 GMT

Is "Frogs" an appropriate term? You're right, I should have said les grenouilles. :joker:

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 13:15:49 GMT

Is "Frogs" an appropriate term? Anyhow, the French could have one suprise: Bousquet has the fastest split in history, a 47.0. If he pops that off again lookout. THe winning relay won't have a leg over 47.8. WOW!

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:55:08 GMT

Yeah but the thing was frace and austrialia both had rising superstars comming into trail. People were saying I can't wait to see what bernard or sullivan do in trails. For the US its more along the lines of I can't wait to see someone do well. US will probably improve but we won't win. France looks to strong to be taken down we dont even need to wait for us trails to say it. Bernard- 47.50 no american is going to get that. Gilot 48.02- you know the top 2 americans times wont add up to bernard and gilot. Leveaux- 48.38 was extremely disapointed with this time. 21.38 in the 50 and 1:46.x in the 200, the 100 time doesn't match up, he is going to get faster. Bousquet- very soild freestyler. Its going to be tough for the US to match up to this. Keep in mind that no one predicted that the aforementioned countries would have had so many record breaking swims. Our trials have yet to happen...and every team member is outfitted in the same LZR racers that helped these guys rock the world. Hloy sh*t is going to be a familiar expression on the pool deck this June 29th.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 09:30:58 GMT

I don't see the Americans getting into the low 47s like the frogs and the Aussies. Which Aussie and French swimmers have gone low 47? Phelps has had a rough year. Really? He will have big competition in the 200Fr. Perhaps. Which swimmers you have in mind? I think we will see more than one swim at sub 43 in the games. I hope 43 was a typo!

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 08:30:05 GMT

No American will get down to 47.50? But will they even have to? Here's the way I look at it. Phelps clocked a 48.41 personal best at the Ohio Grand Prix. His times in other events there were well off his bests. That bodes well for his 100 this summer. As we all know he's an incredible back half swimmer. It is likely that both Australia and France will lead off with Sullivan and Bernard. Otherwise they risk getting too far behind before the anchor. Sullivan led off for the Australians at Worlds. So it is likely that Phelps will be swimming against them. I don't think those swimmers will be able to hold onto a massive margin against a closer like Phelps. I certainly see Phelps as a sub 48 capable swimmer. All Michael needs to do is keep the U.S. in the race so that the remaining three swimmers can chip away. Which swimmers will those be? Let's look at the top 3 candidates. We have Lezak who went his best in season time ever at the Meet of Champions (48.75), Grevers, and Weber Gale both on 48.5 already this year. Also look our for SC Worlds Champ Nathan Adrian. If the U.S. can get three of these guys between 48.0 and 48.5 at trials they're very much in the game.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 07:46:33 GMT

I doubt you'd have said that before the French and Australian trials so why rule out the US as contenders for Gold before the US trials? It's a bit premature. I do agree that it will be tough for Phelps to get the 7th and 8th but it's too early to conclude it's beyond his reach. Yeah but the thing was frace and austrialia both had rising superstars comming into trail. People were saying I can't wait to see what bernard or sullivan do in trails. For the US its more along the lines of I can't wait to see someone do well. US will probably improve but we won't win. France looks to strong to be taken down we dont even need to wait for us trails to say it. Bernard- 47.50 no american is going to get that. Gilot 48.02- you know the top 2 americans times wont add up to bernard and gilot. Leveaux- 48.38 was extremely disapointed with this time. 21.38 in the 50 and 1:46.x in the 200, the 100 time doesn't match up, he is going to get faster. Bousquet- very soild freestyler. Its going to be tough for the US to match up to this.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 07:25:41 GMT

Phelps won't get lucky in the 100 fly again. I don't think he can win in backstroke either. And France or Australia will win the 4x100 free relay. so that leaves 200 fly 200 im 400 im 200 free 4 x 100 meadly 4 x 200 free Thats 6 golds Yep, gotta agree with this...Phelps went 49.1 this past weekend in the suit. I'm sure he will get down in the low 48s for the trails but I don't see the Americans getting into the low 47s like the frogs and the Aussies. Phelps has had a rough year. He will have big competition in the 200Fr. I think we will see more than one swim at sub 43 in the games.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 06:24:39 GMT

Very interesting, Take the top four of France, Australia , and the US, and here's what you've got: FR..........3:12.42 AUS........3:13.01 USA........3:14.19 Not sure where FR and AUS are in their olympic preparations, but the USA hasn't had their trials yet, so it's not hard to see making up the difference. Rank Time IPS Athlete YoB Nat Meet 1 47.50 1020 BERNARD, Alain 1983 FRA EUR08MAR 2 47.52 1019 SULLIVAN, Eamon 1985 AUS AUSLCMAR 3 48.02 1004 GILOT, Fabien 1984 FRA FRALCAPR 4 48.34 995 CIELO, Cesar A. 1987 BRA OSUAPR 5 48.36 994 TARGETT, Matthew 1986 AUS AUSLCMAR 6 48.38 994 LEVEAUX, Amaury 1985 FRA FRALCAPR 7 48.40 993 NYSTRAND, Stefan 1981 SWE EUR08MAR 8 48.41 993 SCHOEMAN, Roland 1980 RSA RSALCAPR 48.41 993 PHELPS, Michael 1985 USA OSUAPR 9 48.45 992 LAUTERSTEIN, Andrew 1987 AUS AUSLCMAR 10 48.50 990 WEBER-GALE, Garrett 1985 USA USAAAMAR 11 48.52 990 BOUSQUET, Frederick 1981 FRA FRALCAPR 12 48.53 989 MAGNINI, Filippo 1982 ITA EUR08MAR 48.53 989 GREVERS, Matthew 1985 USA USAAAMAR 13 48.55 989 DEIBLER, Steffen 1987 GER GERLCAPR 14 48.68 985 CALLUS, Ashley 1979 AUS AUSLCMAR 15 48.75 983 LEZAK, Jason 1975 USA TYRMVAPR 16 48.81 981 DRAGANJA, Duje 1983 CRO EUR08MAR 17 48.82 981 FERNS, Lyndon 1984 RSA RSALCAPR 18 48.85 980 LAGUNOV, Evgeni 1985 RUS EUR08MAR 19 48.86 980 GRECHIN, Andrey 1987 RUS EUR08MAR 20 48.91 978 HAYDEN, Brent 1983 CAN CANLCAPR swimnews.com/Ranking.html

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 20 May 2008 05:57:04 GMT

Rank Time IPS Athlete YoB Nat Meet 1 47.50 1020 BERNARD, Alain 1983 FRA EUR08MAR 2 47.52 1019 SULLIVAN, Eamon 1985 AUS AUSLCMAR 3 48.02 1004 GILOT, Fabien 1984 FRA FRALCAPR 4 48.34 995 CIELO, Cesar A. 1987 BRA OSUAPR 5 48.36 994 TARGETT, Matthew 1986 AUS AUSLCMAR 6 48.38 994 LEVEAUX, Amaury 1985 FRA FRALCAPR 7 48.40 993 NYSTRAND, Stefan 1981 SWE EUR08MAR 8 48.41 993 SCHOEMAN, Roland 1980 RSA RSALCAPR 48.41 993 PHELPS, Michael 1985 USA OSUAPR 9 48.45 992 LAUTERSTEIN, Andrew 1987 AUS AUSLCMAR 10 48.50 990 WEBER-GALE, Garrett 1985 USA USAAAMAR 11 48.52 990 BOUSQUET, Frederick 1981 FRA FRALCAPR 12 48.53 989 MAGNINI, Filippo 1982 ITA EUR08MAR 48.53 989 GREVERS, Matthew 1985 USA USAAAMAR 13 48.55 989 DEIBLER, Steffen 1987 GER GERLCAPR 14 48.68 985 CALLUS, Ashley 1979 AUS AUSLCMAR 15 48.75 983 LEZAK, Jason 1975 USA TYRMVAPR 16 48.81 981 DRAGANJA, Duje 1983 CRO EUR08MAR 17 48.82 981 FERNS, Lyndon 1984 RSA RSALCAPR 18 48.85 980 LAGUNOV, Evgeni 1985 RUS EUR08MAR 19 48.86 980 GRECHIN, Andrey 1987 RUS EUR08MAR 20 48.91 978 HAYDEN, Brent 1983 CAN CANLCAPR swimnews.com/Ranking.html

RE: Phelps Article

knelson — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:51:37 GMT

Not sure where FR and AUS are in their olympic preparations, but the USA hasn't had their trials yet, so it's not hard to see making up the difference. I believe both the Frogs and Aussies have already had their trials. I'd say the Frogs are the favorites right now, but all three teams have a shot. I wouldn't totally count out the RSA team, either.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:58 GMT

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:56:31 GMT

And France or Australia will win the 4x100 free relay. I doubt you'd have said that before the French and Australian trials so why rule out the US as contenders for Gold before the US trials? It's a bit premature. I do agree that it will be tough for Phelps to get the 7th and 8th but it's too early to conclude it's beyond his reach.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:29:23 GMT

And Jessica Hardy put herself in contention with a 54.54 swim last month. Also don't forget about Kara Lynn Joyce. I'm on the fence with Hardy (in the freestyle)... but she did have one :censor: of a meet at SC Worlds! I think KJo will do better in the 50.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Wed, 14 May 2008 05:01:36 GMT

We should probably ban caps as well. They don't cover any private parts and don't provide any critical safety feature. Swimmers wear them specifically to go faster. I hereby renounce all records broken wearing caps. If you've ever worn a cap in competition, you are a technological doper. Congratulations, cheaters. Hi Daaaave: You're probably right. They didn't have caps back in my high school swim team days (the late 1960s and early 70s). I am seriously wondering exactly what the results would be if contemporary swimming was performed with the "absolute minimum". :weightlifter: Dolphin 2

RE: Phelps Article

Justin Ritter — Wed, 14 May 2008 04:42:55 GMT

I have a pretty strong feeling that if Phelps wore old-school briefs and no cap he'd still be getting gold medals and world records. I don't care how fancy the suits are, I can't imagine that they would account for the seconds that he's ahead of the competition (and old records) in some of his events. There's no doubt that suits like the LZR make it a bit easier to break records but I bet if Speedo had never invented it you would still see a lot of records falling this year.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 07:13:37 GMT

Dolphin 2 - I agree with much of what you say about the suits. But the quote above is from you. Your statement essentially discredits what Phelps may do in Beijing because he is wearing a LZR. If he wins 6, 7, or 8 gold medals, is his performance dumbed down? There are two distinct statistics when it comes to the issue of speed. The speed of a given swimmer relative to the speed of another swimmer under the same conditions. Since this is a function of individual skill rather than mechanized aids, the suit is immaterial so why are suit makers trying to claim part of the glory about who won a race when they were wearing their brand? The World's Record speed which is a quantity based on pure magnitude itself and not relative speed. If suits (or other variables) are responsible for increased speed, then Phelp's world's records would indeed be achieved through artifical means and the speed would have to be "de-rated" to take any advantage into account. Accordingly, it would be interesting to see what the world's records would actually be if "old fashoined" briefs were the standard instead of tech suits. As I've said til I'm getting blue in the face, swimming is about the swimmers themselves -not the technology of their swim suits- and if we could just go back to simple briefs -which play a very minimal role in performance- all the controversy over what is -or isn't- an acheivement would not exist. Dolphin 2

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 06:11:30 GMT

Don’t worry about Phelps eclipsing Mark Spitz’s record. All Phelps has to do is wear the next generation silicone coated, polymerically engineered, body compressing, drag reducing suit from Speedo, Nike, Arena, etc., and he will become the greatest swimmer of all time. And everyone will be OOOOOing and AWWWWing over another Dumbed-Down "achievement" thanks to technologically assisted swimming. :shakeshead: Dolphin 2 - I agree with much of what you say about the suits. But the quote above is from you. Your statement essentially discredits what Phelps may do in Beijing because he is wearing a LZR. If he wins 6, 7, or 8 gold medals, is his performance dumbed down?

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 06:05:48 GMT

Hi Hoffam As I’ve said previously, since anyone can put on a performance suit and gain (or not gain) an advantage, these suits are a superfluous idea and may as well be eliminated from the equation. As for their cost, the price of just simple briefs are way too much (at least $15 here in S.F.) and it is a complete waste of money for parents to be buying even more expensive tech suits so their children can feel "more competitive". It’s humorously ironic that people are complaining about the high cost of gas, yet they will run out and buy an expensive tech suit in the purely zealous pursuit of being the Big Dog in the pool. :blah: Kinda reminds me of people who buy those “High Riding” SUVs (with the body jacked up 2 feet over the wheels) and then go parading around town showing off their prowess -and burning up gallons of expensive gas in the process!!! :roids: Happy swimming Dolphin 2 Sounds to me like someone that is against any major thing to improve performance in or out of the water.....I personally would love to see all swimmers wearing the exact same suit.....then there could be no argument as to who is fastest in any event. But at the same time, the improvements in sporting equipment is an on-going battle in any and every sport....it's part of the game.....if I can get just the slightest edge over my opponent....I'll take it as long as it is legal and approved for competition.....IMHO of course!

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 05:29:59 GMT

I think this thread is about Phelps - not the suit. My point is that his medal achievements at the Olympics, whatever they turn out to be, will not happen because of the LZR. If the LZR is as good as it seems - we should see world records everywhere from many different swimmers. It sounds like your question is really: If the suit offers the same advantage to all swimmers why do it at all? A leap in speed may occur - which for a point in time will advance world records. But once everyone has the suit equilibrium will occur and the playing field is equal once again. My single biggest beef with high performance suits is raising the cost of swimming for age group swimmers. There is no doubt parents will be pressured to buy these suits for their young swimmers. I would like to see USA-S simply disallow their use except for national meets. Hi Hoffam As I’ve said previously, since anyone can put on a performance suit and gain (or not gain) an advantage, these suits are a superfluous idea and may as well be eliminated from the equation. As for their cost, the price of just simple briefs are way too much (at least $15 here in S.F.) and it is a complete waste of money for parents to be buying even more expensive tech suits so their children can feel "more competitive". It’s humorously ironic that people are complaining about the high cost of gas, yet they will run out and buy an expensive tech suit in the purely zealous pursuit of being the Big Dog in the pool. :blah: Kinda reminds me of people who buy those “High Riding” SUVs (with the body jacked up 2 feet over the wheels) and then go parading around town showing off their prowess -and burning up gallons of expensive gas in the process!!! :roids: Happy swimming Dolphin 2

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:42:55 GMT

Next up and possibly more fun: what will KATIE HOFF swim? My guess: 400 IM, 4x100 free relay; 400 free; 200 free, 200 IM; 4x200 free relay; 800 free. That's seven, so the big question is, will Katie finish in our top 2 in the 100 free at Trials? If she does, she would then be on the 4x100 medley, for a total of NINE events... with no serious schedule crunches! Tons of fun! But, I don't know about the top 2 in the 100 free. You got Coughlin, Weir... maybe Torres? ;) It will be a blast to watch trials.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:39:43 GMT

Ryan Lochte is a possibility in stealing his thunder in the 100 and 200 backs...maybe even the IM"s. Is Piersol still in it? I haven't been keeping track of the guys lately... :confused:

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:26:32 GMT

yeah, it will be interesting to see how much lochte's butterfly kicks on breaststroke from US Nationals will help his 4IM LC time. or if he will keep them after all the hubbub that sprang up after people saw the video.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:17:47 GMT

How can we predict who is going to swim on the USA team never mind how many medals anyone is going to get???. He may not even be selected to go, stranger things have happened.

RE: Phelps Article

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:47:43 GMT

Those 5 events and the 3 relays make 8 medals. The 100 back always follows the 200 free (just 1 women's event in between). The 200 back is similarly paired with the 200 IM, and also would create a session where Phelps would have to swim the 200 back final, 200 IM final, and then the 100 fly semi. The men's 400 free is amazingly still attached at the hip to the 400 IM so I don't think you'll see any men do both of those. And I'm not sure if Phelps is among our top 2 in those events (same problem with the 100 free). So I think the same program as 2007 Worlds is what we'll see. Not sure what you mean when you say Phelps might not be in our top 2 in the 400 free and 400IM. He is the WR holder for the 400 IM.