Critique my stroke (video posted)

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:33:15 GMT

You have just destroyed the TI theory. This is what i think about too. Your strengh works even on going up and down and not only for advance (sorry for my english). For this reason, your head is all underwater and there is too much wather advanced resistence. Try this drill: strong (very frequent not big) kick with your arms upon your head. Pull, using abdominal, your ass down the wather and your shoulder upon it. Look in front of you (not down as u do now) and make a stroke (cycle, 2 strokes) per 8 shots (kick). good luck

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Tue, 13 May 2008 07:06:48 GMT

but you're body is "slipping" because your core isn't maintaining the position. This is what i think about too. Your strengh works even on going up and down and not only for advance (sorry for my english). For this reason, your head is all underwater and there is too much wather advanced resistence. Try this drill: strong (very frequent not big) kick with your arms upon your head. Pull, using abdominal, your ass down the wather and your shoulder upon it. Look in front of you (not down as u do now) and make a stroke (cycle, 2 strokes) per 8 shots (kick). good luck

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:49:04 GMT

Chuckie bought it for me, she said it was my mothers day present. It is $379.00 at Best Buy and they had a deal on an Epson printer for $9.95. I bought a 2g card for $42.00. I looked it over and it is well constructed. Good for 10 meters deep. The 850w was $279.00, the 750w was 249.00 I will take a lot of underwater pics and let you know.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:45:35 GMT

It would be nice if we could figure out what encoding is necessary to get the high quality video mode on youtube, I've seen some youtube videos where they were offered in higher quality and they were pretty good. Youtube help on this was pretty useless last time I looked. Add the string &fmt=18 to any Youtube video address and the HQ version is loaded.:wine:

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:31:49 GMT

I've been thinking about getting that or a similar camera and would be interested to hear whether you would recommend it or have any comments about your experience with it.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:43:36 GMT

I just bought an Olympus Stylus 1030 SW to add to my collection of 5 Cameras how has yours been holding up? Youtube: www.youtube.com/watch ok so I just got in my Olympus Stylus 1030 SW this Saturday, so I jumped in today for 10 minutes to get some video in. Here it is.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:24:43 GMT

Youtube: www.youtube.com/watch ok so I just got in my Olympus Stylus 1030 SW this Saturday, so I jumped in today for 10 minutes to get some video in. Here it is. for freestyle, it seems as if you are pulling your arms straight back almost to your thigh, but then pulling your arms free from the water, slinging your arms sidearm over the water, and leaning on your side for every breath. you also seem to favor one side for breathing over the other. 1. complete your pulls all the way to the tip of your trunks 2. when your fingertips reach your thigh, your elbow will be near the surface. begin your recovery by lifting your elbow, not pulling free your hand. 3. don't sling your arms sidearm; instead keep your fingertips close to the water as the elbow does most of the work of transporting your arm to the start position. 4. if you are reaching your arms as far forward as you can, your reaching shoulder will drop a bit. this will cause your recovery shoulder to pop above the surface a bit. that should be enough for you to breath by turning your head without lifting your shoulder anymore. 5. when you alternatively breath on both sides evenly, it ensures that no one side develops distinctive moves of its own, such as over-rotation of the body. 6. as you pull, bend your elbow more so that your thumb nail travels the linea alba. as has been mentioned, keeping your trunk (or core) mostly stable is critical to maintaining your streamline, thereby conserving energy. by reducing your sidearming and over-rotations, you'll have a smoother and more efficient stroke. also, close your fingers when you pull (unless you feel that you are so very disciplined that you can keep your fingers ever so slightly spaced apart without faltering). for backstroke, you are bringing your arms all the way back to beyond the center of your head, and then pulling underwater with elbows barely bent. 1. bring your right arm back only as far as 11 'o' clock, and your left arm only so far back as 1 'o'clock. 2. as your arm enters the water in the 'o' clock position, gracefully rotate your body a bit to make you narrower in the water as you begin your pull. 3. if your elbows are not bent enough for the pull, you create too much of a plowing effect. if they are too bent, you can't get enough water to pull. pick a spot somewhere in the middle range to pull. rocking the shoulders as above will help you keep a narrower streamline, so long as you can do so without displacing too much water every time you rock. overreaching causes your arm to have to do additional work while not receiving any directional benefit. pulling water toward your feet makes your body go forward, but hands past the 'o' clock positions can only first pull outward before pulling toward your feet; wasted energy. for flutter kick, your hips roll from side to side depending upon which arm is pulling, and your legs splash a lot while you kick, especially for the leg that is closest to the surface during a roll. 1. whether for backstroke or freestyle, your legs should be roughly independent of your upper body. whether for free or back, your shoulders are going to dip and bob a bit, but that does not mean your hips have to roll side to side. every time you roll, your legs are turning sideways, relegating one leg to deep water and the other to too shallow water, all the while making your whole body destabilize, thereby wrecking any hopes for a constant streamline. 2. it's easy to make a big splash; displacing air is no trick. unfortunately, it doesn't make you go anywhere. try to keep your feet just below the surface at all times. this doesn't mean that you will be splash-free, because, if you are doing it right, your feet will kick so hard just below the surface that the kicks will, simply from the force of the kicks, create a splashing effect above the water. also, as you swim, imagine that you are being pulled by the center of your forehead by a tow cable while you ride along a zip line extended from one end of the pool to the other. don't travel off the zip line. don't let your arms cross the tow cable. move as gracefully through the water as a monorail. remember every stroke has a bit of streamline position (that position you are in when your head is tucked, hands are together in front of you, and legs are together), because streamline position makes scientific sense, from a physics perspective, when you are trying to maximize output with minimal input. if someone were to take a frame-by-frame set of pictures of your free or back, fusing those pictures into one picture should leave you with, roughly, a silhouette of streamline position. if fusing all the frame-by-frames of your free, or of your back, would create the silhouette of something more resembling a blob, you've got troubles. --Sean

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:06:18 GMT

Here's a good video showing Ian Thorpe's Early Vertical Forearm/EVF: www.youtube.com/watch Lindsay, thanks for this link... Ian Thorpe does it too, the EVF-EDF Impressive.... I've added this link to the EDF presentation You know, I have to admit... watching underwater video of top swimmers on this forum has been incredibly useful, and I've really come to appreciate that.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:30:22 GMT

phdude, The air bubbles that are shown when your hand enters the water reduces drag (the kind your hand produces is good drag). Clear your hand by entering it a ting sooner. You'll know you're doing it when the bubbles are significantly reduced. You've been given a lot of good information so develop a list in priority order and improve upon them with some effective drills. Good luck. Coach T.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

pwolf66 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:52:18 GMT

I think you're wrong about this, Paul. I usually take 13 strokes per 25 at aerobic pace in workouts. Not saying that's great, but anything under 12 is pretty impressive in my book. I guess I should have clarified. If it's 12-13 doing DPS drill then that number is too high, 12-13 for a normal medium pace is not bad as you said but, from what I can gather with his comments on XL hands and sz13 feet, he sounds like he's about my size and I'm at 10-11 per length at a medium pace on SCY. Paul

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

knelson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:54:42 GMT

12-13 per 25y is pretty high for someone your size. I think you're wrong about this, Paul. I usually take 13 strokes per 25 at aerobic pace in workouts. Not saying that's great, but anything under 12 is pretty impressive in my book.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

pwolf66 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:38:54 GMT

i do take 12-13 per length (SCY) but that surely has more to do with my XL hands and 13US feet than any good technique. Phdude, 12-13 per 25y is pretty high for someone your size. I would really work some DPS (distance per stroke) and catch-up drills to help you get a better feel for a powerful, gliding stroke. I'm still a work in progress and I'm at 8-9 strokes per 25y when I do DPS drills. Really work those drills and try and stay as long as possible with a smooth powerful stroke. Paul

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:56:38 GMT

alright, i really want to thank everyone for their comments. it's really great to have this community to turn to for help. george: yeah, overreaching is definitely the biggest problem with my backstroke. i think i was overemphasizing this as some of my friends on the team were telling me that my backstroke was looking flat, so I think I was initiating more roll my overreaching. jonathon: I agree with the "slip" comment. my feel has improved dramatically over the last year, but it still doesn't feel right. my upper and lower body are off doing their own things. I'll try your drills shortly, probably wednesday. they sound rather taxing, and i'm sore as hell from an alumni basketball game at my high school yesterday, and i'm also trying to rest for my college's intramural swim meet this tuesday. i definitely need to improve my core. it sucks because the best part of my stroke used to be my sdk's, and now i struggle to keep up with the guys on fly/brst kick sets, even though i am about even with them on bk/fr. abs hurt. tomtopo: what's an "entry clearing problem"? you had me til there. my acceleration *is* too dramatic. linsday: yes, I felt like i was out of phase somehow. it may improve with better core strength. however, i've made a conscious effort over the last few days to keep my left elbow higher and at least those two elements (stroke and roll) are at least more in phase than they were. i do take 12-13 per length (SCY) but that surely has more to do with my XL hands and 13US feet than any good technique. george: armpit breathing??? please clarify knelson: yeah, especially since my free style has always been more FQ/catchup grant's stroke is what i aspire to. however, there's no way that my shoulders could handle that early a VF, at least for quite some time anyway. i agree that is the general direction i should be heading towards over time though. i'll be watching my kick. one bad habit i have is that i always six or eight-beat kick, and when i'm doing a longer set i tend to barely move my feet at all. so i've been trying to consciously kick harder to avoid sinking legs (my thighs are disproportionatly large for my body, so they aren't very buoyant.) i know what part of the video you're talking about, and yeah it does look like the amplitude's too large. anyway, i appreciate you all taking time to have a look. admittedly i have been swimming for the last year to get back into shape rather than concentrating on technique much. but the wedding is in 4 weeks so i doubt i could get into much better shape in that timeframe anyway. there seems to be a lot of areas i can work on in my stroke, so i'm looking forward to the time improvements that can be had.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:50:17 GMT

A small thing, if it is not an optical illusion created by the filming....... On the free, from the underwater shots, mostly after the push-off dolphin kicks (at about 35 secs on the video) and again at 43 secs, you present your whole face to the front which offers a lot of resistance. On push-offs, your head should be between your shoulders and not lifted up. Your whole body, including your head, needs to be streamlined, like a pencil. In general, you should be looking slightly more down towards the pool bottom and not so straight ahead. This helps with the sinking legs problem too. Ian.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:27:03 GMT

Armpit breathing is to keep the chin tucked in almost touching your chest, almost looking back where you have been when you breathe in. I would rather see some one looking to the wall. This way the air passes thru much easier.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

knelson — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:57:41 GMT

knelson: yeah, especially since my free style has always been more FQ/catchup grant's stroke is what i aspire to. however, there's no way that my shoulders could handle that early a VF, at least for quite some time anyway. i agree that is the general direction i should be heading towards over time though. Same here. A stroke like that is very rare, and I wonder how much strain it puts on your shoulders. I think Hackett has had some shoulder problems. This is something I'm planning on working on over the summer. My coach told me last week this is something I specifically need to do. He more or less said I can workout as hard as I want, but unless I can improve this part of my stroke there's a limit to how much faster I can swim. I'll always be fighting this technical deficiency.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:47:17 GMT

Phdude Cross over strokes on occasion. I don't like the way you breathe in. It seems you are armpit breathing, which closes the airway.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:33:17 GMT

Here's a good video showing Ian Thorpe's Early Vertical Forearm/EVF: www.youtube.com/watch I don't know if it is the perspective or if his right and left arm are different. Actually, although the video quality is poor if you watch this: www.youtube.com/watch you can see that it is a matter of viewing angle, his arm pulls look asymetric but it is just a matter of which side the camera is on. Which I guess serves as a caution when analyzing videos taken from below and to the side.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

knelson — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:52:29 GMT

Here's a great video of Grant Hackett showing incredible EVF: www.youtube.com/watch Another thing I noticed no one else has commented on is you could probably reduce the amplitude of your kick somewhat. This might be a reaction to your fishtailing. You are trying to compensate a little by opening your kick to balance the side-to-side movement.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:11:46 GMT

Keep your elbows higher. Imagine wrapping your arm over a big barrel. Latch on and throw the barrel back. (Elbows stay high. Forearm stays vertical.) As Tom said...a vertical forearm is important! It will give you the ideal leverage... and result in more power from each stroke. Otherwise it looked really good. You have room for some big improvements by using a higher elbow.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:59:49 GMT

I don't know if I'm right about this, or whether it's a useful comment, but it seems like your pull and your roll are a little out of phase. Usually when watching an elite swimmer everything seems to smoothly integrate together with a smooth flow. When I watch your roll and pull I see two things going on at the same time instead of one integrated motion. This is probably related to Jonathan's comments about the core, but I don't know if it is because you lack core strength or if you just haven't integrated your stroke together. Or perhaps I'm being thrown off by the fact that you swim with a timing that is a little further toward the catchup end of the spectrum than I'm used to seeing. The thing that really gets me is that usually when I see people with stroke components that don't appear to be integrated they have a really poor dps/spl, but unless that's a short pool you seem to have a pretty good spl count. Dropped elbows also usually cause high spl. I guess we need a better analyst than I to explain this! :dunno: Best to think of my comments as me learning analysis rather than something you should take too seriously.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:13:50 GMT

Hmmmm... You're a good swimmer. You know, I never thought I'd end up giving free technical analysis over the computer, but I have a hard time ignoring a swimmer who wants help. One of the reasons I didn't coach was because of the kids who didn't want to be there, they have very little respect, so why waste my time, right? This is different, the people that post video here really want to improve, and so I'm more motivated to share what I've learned. I watched your video a few times, and there are some elements I like... but, what would help you best to improve? The main area seems to be your core stability. Your timing and "feel" seems to be acceptable, but you're body is "slipping" because your core isn't maintaining the position. This might not be something you can improve by thinking about it... I have posted some core exercises on the "Fun and Fast" thread in the work-out section, or just click the link in my signature. Basically, you need to strengthen your core, and learn to use your "body line" to help with forward propulsion. Any motion outside of that line, up, down, right left, is wasted energy. The most effective way to improve core stability is through dryland exercises. However, there are some water drills that can help... Try swimming 6x50 with fins on 2:00, head up freestyle with dolphin kick, and try and keep the head looking straight forward through the whole 50 and follow that with a (relatively) straight body line(This is not easy) Do this 3xweek for 3-4 months, and then take some more video. Good luck!

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:56:07 GMT

You've got a classic dropped-elbow - you lay on your arm during the first quadrant, move toward the midline to quickly, have a lot of air behind your hand (entry clearing problem), and seem to accelerate too quickly. Lot's of room for improvement (I'd be excited if I were you). Good luck! Coach T.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:45:22 GMT

ok i made it youtube only. Lindsay, the larger versions were encoded in XVID. It's a pretty common codec, and may be useful to get it as it's probably the most common encoder used for videos available online nowadays.

RE: Critique my stroke (video posted)

Former Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:43:41 GMT

Lindsay the youtube file is very good. Yes a little long but pretty good. I like each clip to be about 10 or 15 seconds much easier to down load and put into Dartswim.