Tips for racing a 400 IM?

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:38:34 GMT

The negative split, according to my coach, within each 100 comes from your muscles adjusting the first 25 of each to the change in stroke. I agree w/ your coach. As far as training for the IMs -- and not just the 400 -- it's good to focus on one stroke for about a week, IM sets for a week, a 2nd stroke for a week, IM sets for a week, a third stroke for a week, IM sets for a week. Rather. Rinse. Repeat. This allows you to fine tune and train for all the strokes. And the IM training gets your body used to the unique fatigue that one gets from swimming IM. Some mileage may vary...

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

knelson — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:58:22 GMT

Sadly, I'm a *** stroker so to pos. split that one :dunno: It might not be so bad. It shows you were working the breaststroke. Here's the thing. You should negative split the back because the first 50 is to your feet, but the second 50 is to your hand. You don't have to actually swim faster on that second 50 to get a better split. On free the same thing applies, plus it's the end of the race so you're giving it your all at the end. That leaves ***. It's probably good to keep your two 50 splits close, but I don't really see the need to negative split.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimshark — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:06:47 GMT

I agree with my coach, too but did hte 400 IM yesterday and positive split my ***. The fatigue caught up with me then. I need to work on that. Sadly, I'm a *** stroker so to pos. split that one :dunno:

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimshark — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:21:04 GMT

Good thinking Kirk. Thanks. And I thought the positive split was because I thought about throwing up during the 2nd 50 of ***! :blush:

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimshark — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 06:58:59 GMT

I'm off to swim the 400 IM today in a meet for the 4th time . The negative split, according to my coach, within each 100 comes from your muscles adjusting the first 25 of each to the change in stroke. So expect a negative split, except the fly which gets you the start. Take it loose on the fly, and then you'll do fine. My stroke is *** so I save a lot for that and then go all out on the free. Good luck.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

That Guy — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:12:51 GMT

I breathe 2 up, 1 down on the fly. You definitely want it to feel smooth, but don't loaf it by any means. Maybe somewhere around 4 seconds slower than what you can swim a 100 fly is a good starting point. Arrgh, "4 seconds" doesn't scale to different swimmers' speeds. Swim the first 100 of the 400 IM exactly the way you would the first 100 of a 200 fly.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

knelson — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:58:19 GMT

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:25:49 GMT

I have a strategy for the 400 IM, which is the same one I use on the 200 fly. Don't enter.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:34:20 GMT

carlos, you are right.... richard quick told me the same thing about summers... i wish i could find an old video... question for all- what about breathing to the side like mel stewart? who does it? and who does it on R,L. S drills? btw, not going to mess with side breathing right before a big meet. Swimcat - I used to (USED to) swim IM and 100/200 lfy like it was my job! Never SUPER fast, about a 1 min 100. For a long time I breathed to my R side - it just felt more natural to me. Coaches absolutely hated it. I would play around with it and see what you feel like - it's really wierd at first, but even now (I can do about 2 25's fly :lmao:) I find myself doing it I also agree about the IM - easy, loose fly (I suck at back so it's always work for me), kill the *** and give the free whatever you've got left. :cheerleader: Good luck!!

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

FlyQueen — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:29:13 GMT

Back off the legs for fly & back ... keep your *** lower and a bit wider ... free is free. The goal should be to negative split the back, *** and free legs. It's been a VERY HAPPY two years since I've swum it. I am happy to say that I will probably never swim it again but who knows ...

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:34:33 GMT

question for all-what about breathing to the side like mel stewart? who does it? Well, my wife does...and always was amused that Melvin got credit for "inventing" it when she had been doing it for a decade at least. (Just a slightly different level of competition, however!) She reports that she does it because it is much easier for her to lift her head to take a breath. Sounds reasonable. I don't know who else does it. I do remember when my coach used to yell at me if I didn't breath every other stroke (in practices or races). I should find him and make HIM do all the penalty fly that resulted from that!

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:09:47 GMT

I have a strategy for the 400 IM, which is the same one I use on the 200 fly. Don't enter. hahahaha:lolup:

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimcat — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:30:09 GMT

It makes sense simply b/c it makes sense. Didn't Summer Sanders revolutionize distance fly by breathing every stroke in Barcelona 1992??? I would add that on the fly your recovery should be ab-so-lute-ly loose, kinda like you're dropping them in the water. This helps conserve energy. For the 400 IM... you're gonna need it. The 100 fly should be roughly equal to the last 100 free. So if you go out in 1:07, your free should be a 1:07, unless of course either of those 2 strokes is hands down your worst stroke, then you make adjustments. This goes for the 200IM as well, something lost on most masters swimmers, even national top 10 and FINA top 10. Yes. I'm serious. Look at how the Big Guns of elite swimming split their IMs. carlos, you are right.... richard quick told me the same thing about summers... i wish i could find an old video... question for all- what about breathing to the side like mel stewart? who does it? and who does it on R,L. S drills? btw, not going to mess with side breathing right before a big meet.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Rykno — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:33:46 GMT

I wish I had listen to tips like this before I swam the 400 way back when. I was going to swim the 400 im for the first time in 8yrs, in our conference championships. my coach just said have fun with it. I set a personal best in the 100fly out in 52.?? then something like 109, 114 and 106 felt good until the free then someone put concrete shoes on me...in the evening I slowed down the fly to 55 and was able to reduce my over time from 4:21 to 4:18 so there is lots to be said about holding back in the opening 100.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:06:15 GMT

Great tips. Thanks all. Karen, you are FAST in the 400 IM! I'm glad to hear that you and your super fast husband try and negative split the 100s by stroke. Will be a challenge for me. Aren't you swimming it at nationals and you're seeded 4th? Good luck!! :bow: Ande, was certainly planning on taking it out EZ on fly. For sure! I don't kick, so no kicking on back will be easy. The *** will be the hardest part. I'll really work it. I'll worry about training for the 400 IM after this meet. :violin: Guess I'm doing it backwards. Race first. Train for it afterwards. :lmao: Fast suit? Guh. I'll chew on it. Isobel - I agree. Need to have fun. I tend to get lost in the event it's so long! Swimcat, *** is my worst. I will spare everyone the details. Carlos, great reminder on the split for the 100 fly vs. 100 fr. Should be interesting to see how I split it. Can't say I can breathe every stroke on the 100 fly - but I may come close! Orca, lucky dog! Only one weak stroke for you!? I have two weak ones. Not good on the IM.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Former Member — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:37:13 GMT

breath every stroke on fly? i got chastised by a coach for doing that on a 200 fly. but it would make sense esp. It makes sense simply b/c it makes sense. Didn't Summer Sanders revolutionize distance fly by breathing every stroke in Barcelona 1992??? I would add that on the fly your recovery should be ab-so-lute-ly loose, kinda like you're dropping them in the water. This helps conserve energy. For the 400 IM... you're gonna need it. The 100 fly should be roughly equal to the last 100 free. So if you go out in 1:07, your free should be a 1:07, unless of course either of those 2 strokes is hands down your worst stroke, then you make adjustments. This goes for the 200IM as well, something lost on most masters swimmers, even national top 10 and FINA top 10. Yes. I'm serious. Look at how the Big Guns of elite swimming split their IMs.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

orca1946 — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:57:21 GMT

I try to stay smooth in all stroke. I am a good fly & back swimmer, but slow way down in the BR, then pull hard in the free.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimcat — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:48:44 GMT

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

swimcat — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:45:53 GMT

the only way i can swim it. go out in the fly, hang on in the back(my worst stroke_) strong in the ***(my best stroke) and try to bring it home in the free. of course, i have been accused of resting on the backstroke too much and hugging walls on turns.:rofl:

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

ande — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:44:17 GMT

I wrote about this in swim faster faster wear your fast suit fast turns fly: cruise it, save your legs, not many SDKs, breathe every stroke back: breathe often, smooth and fast, save your legs, light kick ***: work it, do full pull outs, swim strong and smooth free: turn on your kick and bring it home with what ever you have left it's good to negative split the back, *** and free. remember proper pacing give up time on the front end to gain time on the back end Any of you 400 IMers out there, any ideas or thoughts on racing strategy? I'm in decent shape but was sure as heck never a 400 IMer (never did it as a kid and have done it twice as a masters). Did a 4:56 during winter training season and not killing myself. Just swam it smooth. Plan on possibly swimming it in a few weeks (also unrested/ untapered.) Just want to swim the darn thing. I may even just wear my practice suit. Am a flyer and freestyler. Been working on back and *** (not too much.) Ideas? Negative split each 100 of each stroke? Is that a bad race strategy? I'm just so clueless on this event. Thanks!

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

isobel — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:01:33 GMT

I like this race because of its variety, though I am not fast. But I posted a thread in 2007 about how to train for it. Memory tells me some people liked to build each 25 of each stroke; also people liked to save their legs if possible during the backstroke because if they didn't they found themselves a little doomed for the *** and free. Also they said to have good turns/transitions. I say make it an adventure! Let it be smooth and easy! Enjoy the variety! Don't worry about your time! Pretend it's a practice.

RE: Tips for racing a 400 IM?

Karen Duggan — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:15:35 GMT

I like the 400IM but am not good at it by any stretch of the imagination. My hubby is though. He negative splits every 100, except maybe the fly, 'cause of the start. I usually negative split it or come close, but again, I'm not the guru.