Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

smontanaro — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:36:18 GMT

Jammers are not good for pulling with a buoy between your legs. It is difficult to hold on to it for an extended set. I used to think so as well. These ones stick well enough to my jammer though. Skip

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:19:05 GMT

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:04:42 GMT

Chris, I'm doing my part to ensure that briefs don't die! Here in California, there are a lot of college teams that still prefer to practice in briefs. Although jammers provide more buoyancy for the hip and thigh area (to prevent you from going down legs first like a sinking ship), a lot of swimmers feel that they are a bit too uncomfortable. However I suspect the influence of suit “technology” in Olympic swimming has crept into high school level as well and coaches want everyone to wear what they think is going to give their team a more competitive edge. Considering the extremely uncomfortable sensation of wearing a body suit, I suspect that jammers are all they can tolerate so that's their going to be their standard attire. Being a guy with a very slim physique, I don’t really need to smooth out things and I don't like the feel of excessive coverage when I'm in the water. From my conversations with Masters swimmers, they don’t like the idea of wearing more than the bare necessities either (no pun intended). Regarding the perception that briefs are dying, I recall a quote from William Shakespear who said "The rumors of my death are completely unfounded". :applaud: Happy swimming :p Dolphin 2

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:05:09 GMT

Jammers are not good for pulling with a buoy between your legs. It is difficult to hold on to it for an extended set.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:09:49 GMT

I would like a brief history of the swimming briefs. I remember a few guys wearing body suits when I was a kid just after the war 1945. Our senior relay was made up of the guys who were in the armed services. They still wore the swim suits they had worn before the war. I am going to search for their picture. Hey Geochuck I recall briefs were quite the norm for way back in the 60’s when I took up swimming as a kid and also when I was on my high school team in the late 60’s and everyone loved them. This is quite logical as briefs are the simply the most comfortable thing to wear in the water (except for your birthday suit) and there’s something about the water/skin contact that ”recharges your batteries” both physically and emotionally. However right now, the problem is that the hyper-competitive atmosphere has completely overwhelmed the idea of swimming as being a sensually enjoying and truly athletic art and the “Win by any means possible” approach has just ruined the sport. Being an “Aquaphile” I have devoted a lot of time to the study (and also the promotion) of water-related activities such as swimming, w-polo, hot tubbing, and even ordinary bathing/showering techniques and considering the horrid feel of wearing those “technologically advanced” suits, I am quite optimistic that briefs will definitely return as the suit of preference. :banana: Happy swimming Dolphin 2 :D

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:53:29 GMT

Geochuck, The suit floating is certainly an obvious reason to ban it but probably doesn't address the more important issues of body compression. FINA doesn't have the kahunas to tell Speedo the suit is illegal. Mark my words, the suit will pass inspection by FINA. FINA wants their world records for the additiona interest it generates in the sport.... Speedo wants their suit for revenue purposes....... the swimmers want the suit because it obviously makes them swim faster. Who doesn't want the suit? ....... Purists and record holders who records were recently broken and never had the chance to race with the suit. But then again after all the stroke changes the last 15 years..... do we really care about the record holders or just the records? John Smith

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:39:06 GMT

Here’s the ultimate solution to the ongoing controversy about these technical suits: Just issue the men a standardized pair of old fashioned briefs and the women a bikini with a brassiere (with just enough coverage so the conservative, "family values” crowd won’t be offend by the swimmers allegedly showing “too much skin”) and also provide the briefs with some kind of athletic supporter so the male swimmers aren’t prone to injury. :lmao: Then everything else will be up to the individual swimmer and his or her minimally covered body and good old hard practice. No more squabbling over technical advantage and most importantly, no more of that ecchy "taking a bath with your clothes on" sensation either. :applaud: Happy swimming :D Dolphin 2

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:33:27 GMT

I'd agree to that, but I'd insist on gender equity. If I can't wear a suit that covers my flabby upper body, neither can the women. This confirms my love of full body suits!

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:58:35 GMT

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:13:43 GMT

Press release dated April 6, 2008, from www.fina.org: PR18 - FINA PRESS RELEASE on ARENA Open Letter to FINA on swimsuits All swimsuit manufacturers are very important partners to FINA, Member Federations, swimmers, coaches and officials, substantially contributing to the growth of our Sport. Consequently, FINA, in partnership with the manufacturers, implemented the following: 1. Regulations on swimwear approval have been formulated in close co-operation with the manufacturers, whose participation and contribution was essential (available on FINA website www.fina.org); 2. The FINA swimwear approval process has been implemented since 21 November 2005 without any subsequent specific remarks made by the manufacturers on the process; 3. FINA is always willing to examine issues in connection with the swimsuit approval. However, to the best of our knowledge, there is no objective scientific evidence on the alleged buoyancy advantage provided by ‘SPEEDO LZR Racer’, ‘TYR Tracer Light’ or any other swimsuit approved by FINA; 4. On 12 February 2008 (i.e. before any discussion on swimsuit arose), FINA invited all the swimwear manufacturers to participate on a meeting on 12 April 2008 in Manchester (GBR) on the occasion of the 9th FINA World Swimming Championships (25m). The stated purpose of this meeting is to review and update, if considered necessary, the procedure and requirements for swimwear approval; 5. We underline that at FINA competitions, the rule GR 5.6 - “the manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimsuit will be available for all competitors” - will apply.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:32:17 GMT

I was wondering if you float better in a LZR. Can an angle floater become a horizontal floater in one of these suits? So someone with a LZR should tell us. I have always been a horizontall floater, hands back of head, shoulders, but legs and heels are at the surface. Most everyone else are angle floaters of varied degrees.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:22:33 GMT

Since we’re on the topic of suits and materials, I wonder if FINA will approve of this?: upload.wikimedia.org/.../KB_Bandmask.jpg With a piped in air supply, there’s no more hassle of that timed breathing you had to learn in Swimming 101-A!!! And just to make sure you don’t lose the feel of actually being in the water: www.amronintl.com/.../products.cfm Hey with all the new innovations coming out from Speedo, Nike, Adidas, etc., here’s a magazine that would like to do a feature article on the new suit technology: www.dccomics.com/.../ :thhbbb: Happy swimming :D Dolphin 2

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Iwannafly — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:31:53 GMT

I know, just yanking your chain. I very much doubt you're "old and soft," though. I do like your idea about jammers but doubt it will ever happen, oh well. (I'm sitting here at my son's swim practice right now: ALL the boys have on jammers, briefs are dying.) Chris, I'm doing my part to ensure that briefs don't die!

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:02:46 GMT

Chris Stevenson, I'm no proponent of the suit..... other than I like the fact that it stirs controversy in general. Personally, I'd prefer it if FINA ruled out full body suits all together and only allowed jammers going forward. You don't need anything but jammers to swim fast. If you need the full body suit you are reaching for a technical equipment solution. No one should need a full body suit...... unless of course your body is old and soft...... like mine. I know, just yanking your chain. I very much doubt you're "old and soft," though. I do like your idea about jammers but doubt it will ever happen, oh well. (I'm sitting here at my son's swim practice right now: ALL the boys have on jammers, briefs are dying.)

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:34:46 GMT

Who doesn't want the suit? ....... Purists and record holders who records were recently broken and never had the chance to race with the suit. Is this really the same guy who was crying in his beer ("IT'S CHEATING!") about the fancy starting blocks a month ago? :) I'm starting to feel like I'm in an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" movie...

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:01:26 GMT

From: canadianpress.google.com/.../ALeqM5ij2YmfjWG38FJat7yyTxIzYzZYIQ Back injury sidelines Hayden, withdraws from 50 freestyle at Olympic trials .....Ironically, it's the same Speedo LZR racing suit purported to make swimmers faster that put Canada's swimming star in the back of an ambulance on Friday night from Olympic Park pool in Montreal after swimming the men's 100 freestyle. Hayden told Johnson that he injured his back during a photo shoot for Speedo modelling the new LZR racing suit in Los Angeles on Feb. 29....

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:12:40 GMT

Is there an actual list of what is allowed and what isn't? I don't recall anything in the rule book about double layers or neoprene (and I'm too lazy to go check at the moment!).

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:04:43 GMT

simsport.se is swedish not italian...so I can help. I know, but the link to what I was referring to in Gazette magazine is still in Italian. ;) /Per

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:27:20 GMT

I can't help myself here. LZR sounds too much like LZ-boy and makes me think of recliners. Bad choice of letters, even if they are supposed to sound like laser or something. LZR = "lazier" :lmao:

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

isobel — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:09:53 GMT

I can't help myself here. LZR sounds too much like LZ-boy and makes me think of recliners. Bad choice of letters, even if they are supposed to sound like laser or something.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:04:08 GMT

I actually winced when Dara Torres said that the LZRs were available for pre-order from speedousa.com. We will all be assimilated. Thanks for the link.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:23:39 GMT

It's a big mess: - too late for the others swimsuit manufactures to develop new swimsuit in time for beijing. - too much $$$$ on stakes for Speedo to accept a ban from FINA just now, even more with Speedo that claim that FINA was informed about the project when it was in making and officially approved it before his public release. FINA will get a lot of "heat" for this, ARENA and ADIDAS are big players, ADIDAS a lot of bigger that Speedo, they'll not accept to look like fools. A legal battle IMHO will be inevitable if the suit is not banned at least for Beijing.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 08:58:24 GMT

If the suit floats it should be illegal.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:07:48 GMT

I went to get measured for my new swim suit, it is even gives you faster times then the LZR. See picture below.

RE: Speedo LZR using banned materials and methods?

ViveBene — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:03:21 GMT

Well, we don't really know what the suit is made of or whether materials and construction methods are outside FINA guidelines or to what degree FINA was informed or consulted during creation of the suit. At least I don't know. I have seen U.S. article that said "LCR" suit was "co-developed" by NASA. So I am inclined to wait and see what comes out of FINA's investigation. Regards, VB