Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

BillMc — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:20:33 GMT

Would I like to wear a LZR - sure. Are there a lot of other free things I can do to swim a lot faster. Absolutely. I may be considred pretty fast but my technique stinks....I will stick to fixing what is in my control. I want my success to be sustainable. After I get that corrected, I'll buy the suit.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:59:35 GMT

Howzabout just "Nude Olympics Swimming"?

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:57:34 GMT

I would like to see this rule. Not doubting you, just curious. I looked earlier but could not find anything about suits in their rules. GR 6.5 The manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimsuit will be available for all competitors. www.fina.org/.../generalrules.html

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:22:26 GMT

Writing that article was a fascinating project. I realize the comments about recycling it were a little harsh - sorry guys, no disrespect intended. I actually hadn't read the article for several years, but thought it would be a good piece of history to toss in to the discussion. To be honest, I'm still floored about being the one to write that article. At the time, we were covering the beat, but now it's part of swimming history. It was a great opportunity, and I'm thankful that Phil Whitten believed in me enough to allow me to write it. Hopefully, it will lend something to this whole discussion. :bouncing:

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:37:42 GMT

Swimmer Bill - I find it interesting to see who wrote that article!

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:29:05 GMT

I do remember the woolies for sure. The biggest break through for Canadians was the Unique Athletic Rayon swim wear. I missed the silkies, but here is the progression I came up with back in 2000. Much of this timeline came from a rare interview with Stu Isaac: Nylon and Beyond To address the many questions about the bodysuits, it is enlightening to look first at the historical progression of competitive swimming apparel. In 1956, Speedo introduced the nylon suit for the Melbourne Olympics. The lightweight nylon fabric was a departure from the heavy wool and cotton suits previously worn by competitive swimmers. The next important development came 17 years later, in 1973, when East German swimmers appeared wearing lycra suits at the first World Championships in Belgrade. Prior to the lycra suit, most female racing tanks had a skirted front panel, sometimes called a "modesty panel." This design was a requirement in American swimming until April 1974, when a rules committee met at the U.S. Indoor Nationals in Dallas and waived the rule. For the first time, American women were allowed to wear the lycra suits in competition. "Paper" fabric, which is a lightweight, paper-thin blend of nylon and spandex, was invented soon after lycra. Although paper suits became popular in the late 1980s, the material was actually developed in 1974. Racing suits continued to get smaller and lighter until 1992, when Speedo released the S-2000 suit. The S2000 was different because it had a high-neck profile with a zipper back. The material was a blend of polyester, lycra and polyurethane, and it allowed for greater coverage because the fabric reduced drag. Although the S-2000 torso suit was available for women and men in 1992, it was mostly used by women. In March 1996, the Speedo "Aquablade" was introduced. Once again, Speedo offered some modified styles, including the half-leg, sleeveless torso suit. The fabric was innovative for its water-repellent qualities, and the drag-reducing effect ushered in suits that covered more skin. On Aug. 31, 1999, Adidas took the concept of covering more skin to the extreme by introducing the first full bodysuit. It wasn't too long before others caught on. Speedo announced the "Fast Skin" suit in March 2000, and by that time, swimmers had already begun to experiment with all different types of suits. :bolt:

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:13:13 GMT

It's like deja vu all over again! Maybe I should take the article linked below, replace Fastskin references with LZR, replace Sydney with Beijing, and call it good. People seem content recycling the same discussion from 8 years ago, so why not recycle the article? findarticles.com/.../pg_1 :dedhorse:

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:41:39 GMT

If you don't think the suits are performance enhancing, then you shouldn't be bothered by the mass "madness," no? After all, you're not wasting your money and theoretically no one is gaining an advantage on you. It'd be interesting to have one nationals with bodysuits allowed as usual and one with them banned. Of course, the latter might cause some spectator trauma. :joker: Maybe the athletes have all been conned, but the ones I talk to sure rave about the suits. The corporate reps are just winking and avoiding making damaging legal admissions. "Conned" may be too strong for what I feel, but I do think their importance has been overblown. More than just the cost, the whole arms race aspect is wearying, it takes the focus away from the actual swims (which have been incredible) and the training behind them. And yes, I'll be wearing jammers in races for the near future, sans regrets. Maybe I'll try a LZR on some day and rave about them too. By that time, of course, the self-guided anti-gravity models with the slow-release HGH patches will be out.:D

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:37:41 GMT

I do remember the woolies for sure. The biggest break through for Canadians was the Unique Athletic Rayon swim wear.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:29:30 GMT

Considering George that wool swim suits were still being worn in the 1940's... that suit must have been a huge breakthrough.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:10:24 GMT

Speedo history. I swam in the 1956 Olympics in a Japanese pure silk swim suit given to me by one of the Japanese swimmers Tsuyoshi Yamanaka . Murray Rose also gave me a new Speedo that I took home from those same Olympics. The silk suit really felt good and I raced in that until it was completely disintegrated. history of Speedo en.wikipedia.org/.../Speedo

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Big AL — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:00:37 GMT

As long as it sinks in water (without someone in it). If you throw the suit into a pool and it floats, then no way. Otherwise, whatever works. If you can't afford it, whatever. For me, it sounds too difficult to get into and I would either rip it or throw out my back before I even got to the blocks.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

ande — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:21:15 GMT

I don't believe the suits float, If they fit well, right and tight, they give swimmers a better surface to slip through the water with. Which is one of the reasons we've seen so many WRs fall recently. 50 fr M W 100 fr M 200 IM W 400 IM W 200 bk W 50 bk W I'm sure Phelps could have broken records too but I beleive they are saving them for trials and the olympics. plus I beleive he has a financial incentive to break records in bits rather than in one large chunk.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:14:07 GMT

Maybe I should take the article linked below, replace Fastskin references with LZR, replace Sydney with Beijing, and call it good. Are you really surprised that a $600 price tag on a new suit revives/continues the debate?

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:53:54 GMT

The most amusing comment of the day had to be on Swimming World's morning show, when Brent said, "It should be noted that Speedo is an official sponsor of FINA." :bow:

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:50:52 GMT

Interesting.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:37:45 GMT

Here's the link from the post above... LZR Racer: Banned In Canada And Maybe At NCAAs Mar 26, 2008 Craig Lord The Speedo LZR racer has been banned at Canadian Olympic trials and looks set to de disallowed at NCAAs too. Beyond the high cost of the suit, the bigger problem is the lack of availability. Swimmers unable to get hold of the garment feel disadvantaged, say meet organisers. The Canadian trials organising committee weas looking further into the issue today. The knock-on effect of the decision to exclude the suit will be interesting to watch: as speedsters knock seven bells out of what was once amazing world champion Brent Hayden (CAN) must qualify for Beijing wearing the last generation of suit at his Olympic trials next week. 'It is amazing what the suit can do to people,' Stephanie Rice is quoted far and wide as saying after demolishing Wu Yanyan's dubious effort in China in 1997 in the 200m medley at Australian trials in Sydney. Rice raced 2.5sec inside her personal best. In Britain, masters swimmer Graham Short has complained to FINA that swimmers heading for the Olympic trials in Britain next week cannot buy the suit and will have to compete against national team members who will be wearing the garment. His complaint highlighted FINA rule 5.6: 'The manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimsuit will be available for all competitors'. When Short contacted Speedo, the following reply came back: 'We have supplied Loughborough University with the new LZR suits because they were helpful to us during the development and production of the suit. Unfortunately these suits won't be on general sale until about June - and then only in limited supply. We are taking pre-orders now, but the suits will not be available to every swimmer who takes part in the Olympic trials in Sheffield.' That confirms the problem. Cornel Marculescu, Director of FINA, has asked Speedo for immediate clarification. Speedo is not denying that its suit improves performance: claims include a 5 per cent cut in drag factor and also that compression elements somehow aid oxygen uptake by 5 per cent. There is also the core stabiliser that acts like a corset in helping a swimmer maintain optimum position in the water. Tom Johnson, Hayden's coach, told the Toronto Star: 'The only thing we don't want to be is to be feeling like we're being treated any less fairly than any of the countries in the world that have access to this suit. But we were told that the suit wasn't available. The question now is: If it's not available, how come everybody has it?' Speedo Canada officials said that the Canadian team will get the new suits right after the Olympic trials next week. At the helm, Pierre Lafontaine told the paper: 'It's more the fairness in the trials and then after that we'll deal with the world.' A source in the NCAA world tells me that the colleges are likely to ban the use of suits that are not made available to all. www.swimnews.com/.../ui_1.gif

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:09:24 GMT

LZR Racer: Banned In Canada And Maybe At NCAAs maybe Masters Nationals will be next ....

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:05:15 GMT

Here is a demostration about the swim suit www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

The Fortress — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:42:47 GMT

There is also the core stabiliser that acts like a corset in helping a swimmer maintain optimum position in the water. Jayhawk was right -- it's the Titanium Corset! I like the paper suit feel of the Pro better anyway.

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:26:17 GMT

Lindsay the new bathing cap I have seen causes super cavitation to happen so the body is in bubbles. The body then speeds through the water with very little drag. New world records are going to come fast once this cap is on the market. Perhaps those of us unable or unwilling to spend hundreds on the latest technical suit can make do with the latest high tech swim cap, which only costs £12 www.speedo80.com/.../

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:40:19 GMT

Perhaps those of us unable or unwilling to spend hundreds on the latest technical suit can make do with the latest high tech swim cap, which only costs £12 www.speedo80.com/.../ That's $24.00 in US or Canadian dollars. I don't spend that much on my suits! Anna Lea "Cheapest swimmer on the Forums"

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:34:12 GMT

Perhaps those of us unable or unwilling to spend hundreds on the latest technical suit can make do with the latest high tech swim cap, which only costs £12 www.speedo80.com/.../

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:53:42 GMT

Again the point here is just AVAILABILITY for this year's Masters Nationals. You can have all the philosophical and cost discussions you want - but the suits are not generally available to Masters swimmers competing in Austin. In terms of effectiveness - I would guess that the average to good Masters swimmer will get double the time boost compared to an elite swimmer. For one, our older skin flops around a lot more. And then of course there is the issue of excess fat ....

RE: Should we "ban" the LZR Racer from Nationals ?

Former Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:43:21 GMT

What I am saying is for me, the journey is much more satisfying than the destination. Don't know if I agree with that. This morning I almost blew chow during my journey. I think Nationals should be handicapped on the basis of your VO2max.